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OneWorld



Joined: 07/04/09
Posts: 1868
Jolene at 33&1/3
      #1062385 - 16/08/13 05:05 PM
Just been listening to 6pm news on Radio 4 and there is an ongoing topic relating to how some songs on vinyl sound better at 33&1/3, and sure enough Dolly Parton singing Jolene sounds quite convincing, got a really good groove.

But it's got me thinking, if we use time stretching software and digitally slow down music, beyond say 15% then it introduces so many artefacts that it sounds unmusical. Why does it not have that effect when playing a 45 at 33.1/3?


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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
Posts: 4381
Loc: Bristol, England.
Re: Jolene at 33&1/3 new [Re: OneWorld]
      #1062388 - 16/08/13 05:33 PM
Slowing something down is not the same as pitch shifting or time stretching. In a digital world it wont introduce artefacts, unless you are using an old sampler where the transposition isn't as well performed and can add unusual effects. Time stretching and pitch shifting require the sample 'slices' t o be moved apart or together leading to additional sound being introduced.

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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 21551
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: Jolene at 33&1/3 new [Re: OneWorld]
      #1062390 - 16/08/13 05:37 PM
If you slow down a record (or a tape) its duration increases and its pitch (and audio bandwidth) decreases proportionally. You can achieve exactly the same effect by reducing the playback sample rate in digital audio -- with no artefacts whatsoever.

However, if you use pitch-shifting software, or time-stretch software, they are playing by different rules. Pitch shifting tries to change the pitch but keep the duration the same, while time-stretch tries to change the duration while keeping the pitch the same. Both involve either removing or duplicating small sections of audio, and that's why they sound glitchy to some extent (depending on the quality and sophistication of the algorithms employed).

It's all about using the right tools for the job!

H

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
Posts: 4381
Loc: Bristol, England.
Re: Jolene at 33&1/3 new [Re: OneWorld]
      #1062395 - 16/08/13 06:00 PM
Having just tried a little experiment, I took a record which is normally 33&1/3, recorded it in, then played it on 45 and recorded that in (to Cubase) followed by pitching it down by 4 semitones and 59cents using the pitch shift without time correction. I can get it to almost null against the original un-pitched recording. You can try that on any record to achieve the sound of playing a 45 on 33.

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The Elf
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Joined: 14/08/01
Posts: 9376
Loc: Sheffield, UK
Re: Jolene at 33&1/3 new [Re: OneWorld]
      #1062396 - 16/08/13 06:03 PM
I recall buying Kraftwerk's 'Autobahn' single back in the day and deciding at some point to try out the B-side - 'Kometenmelodie 1', or something to that effect. It was brilliant, and stayed on my turntable for days, played over and over...

I was knocked out by how good it was and went around telling everyone to buy the single for the B-side alone - only to find that all the time I'd been playing it at 33rpm!

I ended up recording a 33rpm cassette version for my own listening pleasure!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.


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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
Posts: 4381
Loc: Bristol, England.
Re: Jolene at 33&1/3 new [Re: OneWorld]
      #1062406 - 16/08/13 07:39 PM
There is a whole fad on youtube of songs reduced in pitch.

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zenguitarModerator
active member


Joined: 05/12/02
Posts: 8692
Loc: Devon
Re: Jolene at 33&1/3 new [Re: OneWorld]
      #1062424 - 17/08/13 12:21 AM
I heard Jolene on Radio 4's PM. And very nice it was too.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.


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ef37a



Joined: 29/05/06
Posts: 6694
Loc: northampton uk
Re: Jolene at 33&1/3 new [Re: OneWorld]
      #1062439 - 17/08/13 06:37 AM
But! Don't forget the Chipmunks!

Dave.


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OneWorld



Joined: 07/04/09
Posts: 1868
Re: Jolene at 33&1/3 new [Re: ef37a]
      #1062473 - 17/08/13 11:32 AM
Quote ef37a:

But! Don't forget the Chipmunks!

Dave.




LOL

I suppose nowadays, with Recycle and Beat Slicing etc they'd be called the Chopmunks!


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