right, sorry, if this is a boring post, but i'm selling my les paul, and i want to make it nice and clean. it's wine red and has some sort of varnish. what'll i use to clean it up? mr sheen? or what?

it's got grubby finger prints and the usual stuff like that on it. also, whenever i wipe dust off, the guitar seems to suck it all back on again. i want it looking nice so that i can make a good impression and get a good price, to finance further gear purchases.

First thing is strip off all the strings...unscrew pickguard etc etc off with the control knobs so you can actually polish the whole lot..

Personally i use "Chestnut wood wax 22" and a tack cloth on my older guitars and it does an amazing job better by far than any of the modern sprays. It really does remove every last finger print.. Remember to polish wearing gloves. I know that seems obvious but people do forget.

Sure Zen has more onfo on this.. but that what i use.

You can buy the chestnut stuff online from axminster supplies plus polishing clothes etc etc..

--------------------
nibbled to death by an Okapi http://www.soundclick.com/tubilahdog

I just take mine under my arm into the shower and wash and scrub it with a clean sponge.

....ok so maybe that is not actually true but the weather is bloody hot, humid and sticky at the moment eh!


NCGM

Well...I know it sounds weird, but for cleaning a guitar the best I have found is good, old fashioned, white spirits.

And when you think about it, it makes a lot of sense. When the guitar is originally finished they use white sprits between coats and after the final finish to remove any crap that is there.

White spirit is designed to clean painted surfaces, and laquer is just a fancy name for paint, as my guitar making teacher once taught me.

It won't do any damage. I have a bottle with a large pinhole in the top. I squirt some onto the guitar and wipe it clean with kitchen roll. divide the guitar into a number of surfaces and clean them individually. And then buff it clean with a soft cotton duster.

As well as removing greasy fingerprints, it will remove all traces of wax and polish finishes. The big problem with waxes and polishes is that they seal the finish. When you wipe off the guitar after playing you smear a thin layer of grease evenly across the surface. When you put the next coat of wax or polish on, you seal in the layer of grease. And over a period of time you can end up with a range of problems.

Now, there is nothing wrong with a coat of wax or polish, although it really isn't necessary. But what you must do before waxing or polishing is make sure the surface is really clean.

And that's the job for white spirits.

Hope that helps

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

thanks zen for that cheap and cheerful solution.

oh...how does one get the pots off a les paul? i'm always a bit timid about ripping parts off my guitar.

i've found that a nice and safe way is to use a small cloth that you can wrap round the stem (under the 'collar' of the knob) and then gently lift - keeping an even pressure all around so it comes off straight and then a finger on the top to stop it launching into oblivion!

s.j.

lots of good info here http://www.gibson.com/Service/Tech/Repair%20Columns/

thanks for these suggestions...

zen, your promise that white spirit won't dissolve my paint job, please?

I'm new here but I've been playing guitar for more years than I care to remember - I have two small points which you can take or leave if you like:-

1) Don't use white spirit, it can damage the lacquer (especially if there is a slight chip, it will only make it worse)

To clean you can use mr sheen but I prefer either guitar polish for the main body and something like fast fret to clean the neck.

2) Don't take all your strings off a guitar at once - think how much tension is involved with 6 strings all tight at once, suddenly to be released, the kneck can bend and for a great guitar like that it's just not worth the risk (in my opinion).

I work on opposite ends of the guitar, E and E first, then A and B, then D and G, it's easier to tune afterwards as well.

You can clean under the strings as you remove them but from experience it's just not worth risking it with strings removed and white spirit!

Quote:

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1) Don't use white spirit, it can damage the lacquer (especially if there is a slight chip, it will only make it worse)

---

it is common to use white spirits or naptha on a finish. once the surface has cured, not even celulose thinner will solve the surface of the paint. i've used amonia solution before refinishing in the past, as long as you don't leave it on long.

Quote:

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2) Don't take all your strings off a guitar at once - think how much tension is involved with 6 strings all tight at once, suddenly to be released, the kneck can bend and for a great guitar like that it's just not worth the risk (in my opinion).

---

rubbish. unless you are talking about a jazzer that has a bridge that is not fixed to the body.

cheers

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Obviously, there are few things worse than a dirty G string!!

Quote green strat man:

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rubbish. unless you are talking about a jazzer that has a bridge that is not fixed to the body.

---

I have to agree. I always remove all the strings when changing a set and usually take advantage of the guitar's "nakedness" to give it a good clean around the bridge, pups and fretboard.

I find lemon oil is the best for rosewood fretboards (use very occasionally, not for evey cleaning) but have been told not to use it on my strat's maple fretboard.

As for the original question about cleaning and selling the Les Paul......I would say just give it a good clean and keep it!

--------------------
"Qui habet aures audiendi audiat"

this is great, keep those answers coming...

is white spirit good on metal bits as well, like hardware and frets? and can i use it to clean the fretboard too?

oh, and shiva, i can't keep it any longer - it's only got six strings! i'm going for a schechter blackjack 007. it's fantastic, the whole body rumbles on those low notes, and it's got nice coil tapped seymour duncans. with the money left from buying that, i'm going to get a pod as well.

Quote Hasbro:

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oh, and shiva, i can't keep it any longer - it's only got six strings! i'm going for a schechter blackjack 007. it's fantastic, the whole body rumbles on those low notes, and it's got nice coil tapped seymour duncans. with the money left from buying that, i'm going to get a pod as well.

---

Sounds great but personally I'd keep the LP and find another way to raise the money, like putting the kids on eBay or maybe even getting a job!

Just had a look at the Blackjack. It looks great. Gotta go, got some eBaying to do!

--------------------
"Qui habet aures audiendi audiat"

Quote:

---

is white spirit good on metal bits as well, like hardware and frets? and can i use it to clean the fretboard too?

---

oh yes. you can use vaseline instead of lemongrass oil too, once you've cleaned ALL of the crap off.

although i prefer somethig lighter like naptha/panel wipe for de greasing fingerboards.

cheers

kevin

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Obviously, there are few things worse than a dirty G string!!

White Spirits are 100% safe. Although the comment about a chip in the finish is valid and fair. Although we think of finishes in terms of cosmetics, the reason the finish is there is to protect and seal the wood. So any chip leaves wood exposed and vulnerable. There is a slight risk that any liquid can seep under the laquer and cause more damage. But enough white spirit to damp a cloth is perfectly safe, it will evaporate very quickly and do no damage.

Mr Sheen will do no harm because modern versions contain no silicon. But it is a polish, not a cleaner. Never apply a polish to a surface that hasn't been properly cleaned. All you do is trap a layer of dirt and grease under the polish.

As for removing all the strings. It really is not a problem with a modern or well made vintage guitar. Like all old wives tales it does has its basis in fact. In the 50's and early 60's imported american guitars were very expensive as they were taxed as luxury items. Several companies started making guitars in the UK and Europe to meet the demand for mass produced electric guitars. And few of these companies had any experience or knowledge of luthiery. And there were no books on the subject either. To cut a long story short, a lot of guitars were made with poor quality woods and incorrectly sawn woods. So necks were unstable and large changes in string tension led to warping.

Modern necks are far better made, and there is no risk in removing all 6 strings.

As for the fretboard and frets. I always use lemon oil on the fretboard. But that is NOT the same as Lemongrass oil which can be purchased at wood craft and turners suppliers as a finish. I will occasionally use very fine wire wool to apply the lemon oil to the fretboard and polish the frets. Wipe clean, then apply more lemon oil with a cloth and lift off any excess after a few minutes.

Hope that helps

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

thanks for these continued suggestions...

shiva, you should try playing one!

people have these preconceptions that 7-strings are big scary planks, but when i first got my hands on one it felt like i'd had my brain enlarged; so many new possibilities! even when you are playing fingerstyle stuff, it's really great that any bass note lower than a b can be played a whole octave lower! sorry, i'm raving.

i was originally going for one with a floyd rose, but when i felt all those vibrations go through the guitar (it's strung through the body and has a thru neck) i thought 'this is the one'!

i tried out an ibanez 7string with floyd rose and although it was nice to play, it sounded a bit puny compared with the schechter. pretty hard to find, these schechters, but well worth a look.

With regard to having all strings off the guitar... it's worth noting that you should release the tension on the truss rod if you're going to do this for more than a minute or two...especially if there's any likelihood of fret dressing, fingerboard cleaning, and so on....
however, since stock advice is not to mess with truss rods unless you really know what you're doing, I will qualify that statement with the admonishment not to get it wrong, and to make a note of exactly how many turns you take off the thing , so you can at least get it something close to it's original position when re-tensioning.

also note that wood takes a little time to react to changes in tension /compression and torsion, it is not an instantaneous process, so care should be taken at all stages not to over cook it....

putting the tension back on a guitar with heavier gauge strings should ideally be done in stages..... as indeed removal of tension/strings might also be best achieved.,... to give the wood in the neck time to adjust to the new compression/extension& torsion forces in play along it .


Max

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if you don't know who i am, i aint gonna tell you.

I've never turned the truss rod as part of string changing/polishing.
I don't believe it is necessary at all.

Vinegar is always good for cleaning any chrome.

I use Lemon oil on the rosewood fretboards and a silicon-free beeswax polish.
You can use lemon oil on a matt finished neck, but keep it away from glossy surfaces.

I remember once I cleaned an old knackered guitar and the finger dirt and gunge on the fretboard was terrible.
I ended up using a toothbrush and soapy water. It dried the fretboard out a bit, but after applying some lemon oil, it came up rather well.

--------------------
Jack of all trades, master of some.

right...so what do you do when you are rubbing away at your guitar with the white spirit for ages and it still stays dull? been at it for ages and it's STILL dull. and i haven't even started on the neck yet if elbow grease is what it takes, that's fair enough, but the reason you ask questions on forums is to save you learning the hard way...

i'm wondering if that thing zen said about trapping yuck under wax is the problem...i remember i went through a phase of running fastfret over the body when i was done playing, and buffing it up. but when i look at the back of the guitar (ie, the non-sweaty area), it got this deep, red glow, whereas the front is a lot duller. sigh...all those years of sweaty 3 hour rehearsal, even sweatier gigs...

what can i do to brighten up my paint-work?

I use 'machinehead and shoulders' on mine and it never gets any flakey white bits.

OK, you have cleaned all the crap with white spirit and the finish is still dull, dull, dull. Not a problem. Remember, all the white spirit is doing is removing the crap. So you were right to think about the build up of polish and stuff. But that has already gone.

What you are kleft with is a finish that has been dulled over the years.

So now you have cleaned it, you need to polish it. And that requires a finish restorer. That means an abrasive polish. Most people would point you in the direction of T-Cut. And yes, it will do the job. But it's a little too agressive and not fine enough for a good guitar. What I recommend (because I have been using it for years under the recommendation of my guitar making teacher) is Brasso. It is a very similar formulation to T-Cut, but a lot finer and a lot less agressive. At push you could use Silvo too, but I don't recommend it. Silvo and Brasso are equally fine abrasives, but because silver is very hard and brass is very soft, silvo is a LOT more agressive.

Apply with fresh kitchen roll and buff off with a clean duster.

Works a treat.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

right, i'll look into brasso, but will it deal with my next question, which is...

how do i make the neck feel nice and slinky to play? just now it feels...like if you rubbed it hard with your finger it would make a squeeking noise, sort of like there's a bit too much friction...

by the way, thanks for all this continued contribution...

A good polish.

--------------------
Jack of all trades, master of some.

The neck?

Brasso again
But make sure you polish up and down the neck

Andy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

thanks everyone. i'll get some brasso and scrub away at my guitar on my next night shift. God, i wish i could get this thing sold so i can get my 7 string! I can't wait till fashion allows some company to make 8 string guitars.

Quote:

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I can't wait till fashion allows some company to make 8 string guitars

---

Roy Albrighton from 70s prog rockers Nektar.. On the inside sleeve to their album "Remember the future" there is pic of him playing an Epiphone 335 lookalike and it clearly has 8 tuning pegs.

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nibbled to death by an Okapi http://www.soundclick.com/tubilahdog

8 string prog? that sounds really indecent, i might try to track some of that down.

any personal recommendations, stevedog?

anyway, my guitar looks nice and shiny now, except for that annoying dust from kitchen roll. I'll have to buy yet more dusters to get that off. Anyway, thanks for all the contributions to this thread. all i need to do is get the thing sold now.

anyway, i'm amazed that noone's made the joke about 'turning the distortion pedal off' yet.

Nektar Albums... Essential listening.. "Recycled" & "Remember the future".. Other good ones "Journey to the centre of the eye"... "Tab in the ocean"... "14 down to earth"

--------------------
nibbled to death by an Okapi http://www.soundclick.com/tubilahdog

Just used white spirit to clean all the cr*p from my acoustic and it worked a treat.
Applied a little polish after that and it's looking good and playing well.
I've tried a set of 13s to give the guitar a bit more balls and it's sounding good - just right for a weekend in Amsterdam busking.

--------------------
Jack of all trades, master of some.

Quote Hasbro:

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thanks everyone. i'll get some brasso and scrub away at my guitar on my next night shift. God, i wish i could get this thing sold so i can get my 7 string! I can't wait till fashion allows some company to make 8 string guitars.

---

look up a Company called "Conklin"

they make 8 string guitars...

Evil buggers.



Max

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if you don't know who i am, i aint gonna tell you.

God! That is one seriously weird guitar company. Obviously they are evil, but obviously you must want one,eh max?

Disturbing absence of prices on there, looks rather pricey.

I would seriously recommend that you people have a look at the guitars on this site -

WEIRD

they are pretty insane. Those fanned fret guitars?... ...that would be weird to play.

Conklin prices.

as i recall, it's in the realm of "if you have to ask...... "

here's the current list

Base Prices for Guitars:
6 String - $3600
7 String - $3900
8 String - $4200
9 String - $4500
12 String - $3900

Options included in the base prices are listed as NC (no charge). Some Options require an additional charge on top of the base price.

Body Style:
Sidewinder - NC
Crossover - NC
Custom Body Style - $ Contact us for quote

Body Construction:
Bolt On Neck - NC
Neck-Through-Body - $1000
Hollowbody - $1200

Please note that the Hollowbody construction is only available as a bolt-on neck.

Fret Number:
24 Frets - NC
28 Frets - $120
36 Frets - $200

Scale Length:
24 3/4" - NC
25" - NC
25 1/2" - NC
Multi-Scale / Fanned Frets (22 3/4" - 25 1/2") - $300
Multi-Scale / Fanned Frets (25" -27 3/4") - $300

Player Orientation:
Right Handed Instrument - NC
Left Handed Instrument - $100

Body Wood:
Alder - NC
Basswood - NC
Butternut - NC
Cherry - NC
Dragonwood - NC
Koa - $200
Mahogany - NC
Maple - NC
Poplar - NC
Spanish Cedar - NC
Swamp Ash - NC
Walnut - NC

Top Wood:
No Top - NC
Birdseye Maple - $300
Burl Maple - $400
Buckeye Burl - $500
Cocobolo - $300
Curly Maple - $300
Figured Bubinga - $400
Figured Cherry - $300
Figured Koa - $500
Figured Purpleheart - $300
Figured Redwood - $400
Figured Walnut - $500
Lacewood - $300
Quilt Maple - $400
Spalted Maple - $400
Wenge - $300
Zebrawood - $300
Ziricote - $400

Melted Top - $1200 (See Note)

If you are ordering a Melted Top, the price quoted is for standard 3 and 5 piece patterns. For a custom Melted Top (Existing special editions or new designs), please contact us with the idea for a quote.

Top/Body Options:
Show neck woods on neck-through-body - NC
Full width top on neck-through-body - $200
Flat top - NC
Carved top - $200
Wood pickguard (specify wood) - $300
3-D relief Carving - Please provide artwork for quote

Neck Woods:
Solid Maple (6 string guitars only) - NC
Maple/Purpleheart (Standard on all 7-9 string guitars) - NC
Maple/Bubinga - $200
Maple/Walnut - $200
Maple/Wenge - $200
Wenge/Bubinga - $400
Wenge/Purpleheart - $400
Yellowheart/Purpleheart - $400
Yellowheart/Wenge - $400
Zebrawood/Wenge - $400
Zebrawood/Purpleheart - $400

Fingerboard:
Birdseye Maple - $100
Bubinga - NC
Cocobolo - NC
East Indian Rosewood - NC
Figured Bubinga - $100
Gabon (Black) Ebony - $200
Macassar Ebony - $100
Pink Ivory (When available) - $300
Purpleheart - NC
Quartersawn Hard Maple - NC
Wenge - NC
Melted Fingerboard - $600 (See note below)

Exotic Wood Fingerboard Binding (specify wood) - $200

If you are ordering a Melted Fingerboard, the price quoted is for standard 3 and 5 piece patterns. For a custom Melted Fingerboard (Existing special editions or new designs), please contact us with the idea for a quote.

Inlays:
Conklin "off sides" dots - NC
Side dots only (no inlay on front of fingerboard) - NC
Centered and side dots - NC

For custom inlays - we'll require the design, material and location(s) for a quote.

Headstock:
No cap (Show neck woods) - NC
Headstock Cap (match top) - $100
Headstock Cap (match fingerboard) - $100
Melted Headstock Cap - $300

If you are ordering a Melted Headstock Cap, the price quoted is for standard 3 and 5 piece patterns. For a custom Melted Headstock Cap (Existing special editions or new designs), please contact us with the idea for a quote.

Pickups:
Conklin Custom pickups - NC
Seymour Duncan pickups (See note) - NC
DiMarzio pickups (See note) - NC
EMG pickups (See note) - NC

Conklin Custom pickups available for guitars with any number of strings. Please note that Seymour Duncan, DiMarzio and EMG pickups are available for 7 string guitars. Seymour Duncan "Custom Shop" pickups are available for 8 strings, but there may be an additional charge. Bartolini pickups are no longer available.

Electronics:
Active non-tone preamp gain boost - $100
Coil Tap Switch - $30
3-way Switch - $30
5-way Switch - $40

Options for knobs and layout will be discussed at time of order.

Piezos:
Piezos - $60 per saddle/string

MIDI Electronics(requires Piezos):
RMC Polydrive and 13 pin output - $400

Bridge:
Hipshot fixed bridge - NC
ABM Individual bridge/saddles - NC
Tune-o-matic style - NC (Not available for 8 or more strings)
Non-locking tremolo and Sperzel locking tuners - $250
Locking Floyd Rose-style tremolo and Sperzel locking tuners - $350

On guitars with 8 or more strings and fanned frets you are limited to having 8 individual bridge/saddles at no extra charge or having us hand-mill a custom bridge plate. There is a minimum $500 upcharge for a custom compensated hand-milled bridge. Custom tremolos have a minimum $1500 upcharge.

Tuners:
Gotoh - NC
Hipshot - NC
Schaller - NC
Sperzel - NC
Hipshot De-tuner - $100 per string

All tuners are standard.

Hardware Color:
Chrome - NC
Black - NC
Gold - NC
Satin Chrome - NC

All hardware colors are standard (when available).

Finish:
Polished clearcoat over natural wood - NC
Satin clearcoat over natural wood - NC

See-through Cellophane Stain (only on light colored woods):
- Ruby red - NC
- Sapphire blue - NC
- Emerald green - NC
- Amethyst purple - NC
- Black-cherry - $100
- Black-n-blue - $100
- Black-n-green - $100
- Black-n-purple - $100

Basic Opaque colors (Red, White, Black, Blue, Green, Purple) - NC
Sunburst (yellow, orange and red) - $200
Tobacco-burst (red, brown and black) - $200

For custom colors, metallics, custom mixes, Candies, metal flakes, Custom Airbrushing - please contact us with your idea for a quote.

Case:
Conklin form-fit case (Standard) - NC

You may substitute one of the following if you wish:
Heavy-duty gig bag (Standard) - NC
Custom hardshell road case - $250
Double instrument gig bag - $100
Flight case - $350

Current Build Time(as of 1/1/2005):
9-12 Months

As to the other stuff
Fanned frets... Zion were doing them for a while... ... I played one for about 6 months , weird yes, but you get used to it... eventually.... then swapping back becomes equally difficult...
personally, i find the Buzz feiten system less hassle and easier to adjust to...

and it's easier to build !

Max

--------------------
if you don't know who i am, i aint gonna tell you.

Thanks for that list max...was it a conklin you had? And how did you get your hands on that? Any comments on the quality of a custom guitar like that?

They aren't THAT expensive...all those people with prs-es could have saved up a wee bit longer for one!

...Must be insane laying those frets.

guitars like that (8 or 9 strings) would be great for solo fingerstyle, it's be more like a piano.

I was wondering how multiple scale length guitars could work, just for tonal reasons. Well, now i know!

Quote zenguitar:

---

OK, you have cleaned all the crap with white spirit and the finish is still dull, dull, dull. Not a problem. Remember, all the white spirit is doing is removing the crap. So you were right to think about the build up of polish and stuff. But that has already gone.

What you are kleft with is a finish that has been dulled over the years.

So now you have cleaned it, you need to polish it. And that requires a finish restorer. That means an abrasive polish. Most people would point you in the direction of T-Cut. And yes, it will do the job. But it's a little too agressive and not fine enough for a good guitar. What I recommend (because I have been using it for years under the recommendation of my guitar making teacher) is Brasso. It is a very similar formulation to T-Cut, but a lot finer and a lot less agressive. At push you could use Silvo too, but I don't recommend it. Silvo and Brasso are equally fine abrasives, but because silver is very hard and brass is very soft, silvo is a LOT more agressive.

Apply with fresh kitchen roll and buff off with a clean duster.

Works a treat.

Andy

---

Andy

I have an old Gibson archtop (laminate) from the 50's - not that valuable but with fabulous tone and playability therefore priceless to me. The finish is largely intact (lots of dings and a little flaking and a small bare wood area on the neck) but heavily lacquer-cracked and pretty grubby with lots of dull areas where polish/finish restorer haven't worked. Is the method you outline safe for an instrument like this or should I a) take it to a luthier who specialises in restorations or b) leave it as is? I don't mind leaving it as is, I just thought it deserved a clean up! I'm worried about the white spirit in particular getting under the lacquer cracks and wrecking what's left of the (nitrocellulose?) finish.

thanks

Bill

excuse the bump ...

Sorry to take so long to get back to you Bill.

If there are areas where you are concerned about the finish it is still OK to use white spirit, it won't harm the finish. But if there is risk of flaking invest in some cotton buds and work around the worst damage with those.
That will get everything clean without any damage.

Hope that helps

Andy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Andy

many thanks for this

Bill

I use a damp rag, for real filth dampened with heavily diluted anti-bacterial dishwashing liquid, followed immediately by a dry rag.
Most of the time I only use breath and a clean lint-free cotton cloth.
No other chemicals, nothing direct onto the finish.
After cleaning fretboards with a damp rag, once a year I'll put a few drops of lemon-oil on a rag, invert the rag and apply it to the (rosewood or ebony) fretboard, rub off the excess 20 min later.
Lemon makes it smell better, the oil helps prevent cracking.

Be careful of any products that containe silicone, it will act as a repellant for any future repairs to the finish.

Rik the guitar roadie in Perth, Western Australia.