Hi

My sister's been looking for a flat for me while i'm at work - she saw somewhere which apparently isn't that great but seems to be secure (top/3rd floor flat) and that's the main thing i'm after - i don't want to get burgled ever again.

Anyway, as i said it's a top floor of an old 3 story house - unsure if it's a terrace or not but i assume it is.

I will be using some quiklok BS336's (pictured here) and also have some floor standing mission speakers.

How much sound travels down through the floor? Will the speaker stands help much? And although i don't use the floor standers for studio stuff, they are on pins to reduce contact with the floor, for general hifi listening.

Would some auralex mo-pads on the stands help much with this?

I hope to have a crappy phone camera pic of the main living room/area where i will dump all my gear soon.

Cheers!

Edd

If it's an old victorian london town house, then basically, lots ....

you're definitely going to be looking at doing some isolation work....

I would suggest that you make a small basic floating floor surface to mount your kit on.... (A layer of R10, then ply, then R10 then MDF or Tongue and groove flooring., then mount yer quiklok stuff on top) it needs to be a reasonable amount larger in surface area than the Workstation base to keep it as stable as possible. I'd probably look at an area 8x8, as you can sit your chair on it as well, to maintain the height relationship between you and the Desk,. also, guitar amp, Keyboard stand and so on should fit on it as well with a bit of luck.

AND use some of those Focal pods to mount the monitors on the workstation./

Mopads probably do provide a higher degree of isolation, but they also seem to allow a little more movement of the monitor, which has a negative effect on their accuracy at low frequencies, and also their stereo imaging.. At least in my experience, I've never been terribly happy with them... but they do serve a purpose in case of necessity.

My Thought is that using the Foculpods and the floating floor should provide higher accuracy, and similar, or superior decoupling.

Why so much thought......??? because i discovered , in a similar situation, that even the noise of my Pedal action on the digital piano annoyed neighbours below me.

As for actually monitoring at a sensible level??? They went nuts.... So I did pretty much as described (although as Foculpods weren't around then, I made some similar pads out of neoprene ) .
it worked well enough to get me through the next 6 months till I got a house of my own.....

Max

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if you don't know who i am, i aint gonna tell you.

thanks ever so much for all your info max. well, so far it all seems a bit bleeeeek. i've got a picture of the flat, and it didn't look too great - pretty small for what my sister described a 'quite big'. However i don't know if the (tasteless) sofa on the left is flush against the wall, or what.



That's the room, with the estate agent guy in it. Don't like it, not for the obscene amount it costs. I also thought, that it isn't like a proper flat where the floor is concrete - like if you're downstairs in my parents' house, and my brother is upstairs talking, i can pretty much make out what he's saying. That's what it'd be like in this place, i guess.

In other news - max, i took the stands back. I decided that, instead of spending cash on a normal table, and stands, i'd much rather continue to save for a z-600 and an undertray for the computer keyboard:



(the computer keyboard tray isn't in that picture, but i'm sure it's not too difficult to imagine). I think that the money for stands + a 'standard' table will work out to be the same as it would for that quiklok desk. Does anyone know anywhere on the web to get prices for them? Rose Morris pro audio do them for £430, but i'm sure they're cheaper than that?

I will try to find time to view other places that are better suited, but i am pretty desperate to find a place (will be sleeping on sisters floor/sofa as of sunday) so may have to accept a much-less-than-perfect solution for a while. I'll post on here with any info if that's ok!

Cheers max

Eddie

Mate, stay away from those Quiklok speaker stands, they're hopeless. I bought a pair a while ago for my Dynaudio BM15a's... they rock and wobble, even with the spikes, due to the design using those three thin steel bars - they seem to lack rigidity.

That's a great looking desk (I can't seem to find it in my Quiklok catalogue) but I find people are veering away from tiered desks if possible (as Martin Walker said also) to avoid messing with the direct path of the speakers as much as possible. I'm looking at getting a low profile Z-stand for my mixer.

Good luck in your quest...

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Adam Inglis
A Disco Ate My BABY!

hi

that desk is the z-600 - try www.quiklok.it instead of quiklok.com

it's actually too big for me though. it's about 77inches wide!

a cheaper solution, which i think would be more suited to my needs, is the quiklok z-555:



This is the base unit, then you buy other bits of kit/accessories to suit your needs (they have LOADS of other bits and it's totally customisable). This 'base unit' can be had for £200. So all i would need is a panel to put my screen on (another £20 to £30 or so).

And the main desk bit is 'deep' enough for me - i need to be able to have my mackie control on the desk, with the computer keyboard in front of it. if i want a computer keyboard pull out draw i can get one of those too, to free up more space, but i don't like them. But the point is you can eventually end up with a system tailored for you, eg:



They also do a 44inch wide desk (quiklok z-544), exactly the same but.... 44inches wide!

I *think* that's my 'setup' sorted, as far as desk etc. All i need to do now is buy the desk then find somewhere to put it

I'll dheck out that place on monday...

Cheers

Eddie

Eddie,
did you get in touch with Reg Rock....??

He had one of those complete systems for sale... attachements as well as the basic bits... a LOT less money... than buying it new,.

or am I missing something here?



Max

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if you don't know who i am, i aint gonna tell you.

hi max

unfortunately i didn't/don't have the cash to give to reg - i'll need to get paid first so i didn't wanna enquire about it and then be like.... "oh that's really nice.... well if i did have money, i'd buy it"

If there's any chance he's still got it when i can afford it, he'll be the first to know

Cheers mate

Eddie

ack, it's sold oh well

guys, re: the picture of the flat (i'm starting to not care what the place looks like if i can have my music stuff there) - the bit on the left of the pic has a couple of feet of space behind the sofa, and also, the left hand side is where the neighbours are (ain't their bedroom either, which is good) - no neighbours on the side with the slanted bit at the top.

Just for future reference - if you have neighbours on one side, is it best to have you speakers far away but FACING the wall, or is it best to put them pointing the other direction, but NEAR the wall?

Thanks guys

If you have not bought yet, don't buy a flat in a typical London town house (on any floor!). I'd really give the agents a poser up front and say it's concrete floors or nothing. I've lived in both and also had the "joys" of trying to improve isolation with a wooden floor. IMHO nothing really works.

It's not just you and your noise. It cuts both ways. You will find a good mic will pick up the neighbours' TV programmes or whatever while you are tracking.

Oh yes, and spikes on hi-fi speakers are not to minimise contact with the floor, but to ensure you do get contact with the floor e.g. through carpets. They turn the floor into a soundboard, which will also piss off neighbours below.

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Dynamite with a laser beam...

hi guys

well it won't be a london victorian house.... but more likely a cardiff victorian house

i went and had a look at the one in the pic... forget it i'm not living there.

i don't really have the choice to be picky anymore, as there is very little to choose from. one way around this problem, is, perhaps i should get a ground floor flat?

That way, i'd be able to make more noise?

It just so happens that nearly all the places around (which is nothing at all, really) are ground anyway.

Would this help or....?

Cheers

I live in London and a few years ago I lived in a flat above a shop - a hairdressers, in fact. While this was quite noisy during opening hours as they had speakers up in the corners by the ceiling, in the evenings and Sundays I could make as much noise as I liked as there was nobody in below me. That worked out pretty well for me at the time.

Matt

ha!

was talking to a guy at work - he said he knew a woman that was offering a newly decorated place above a hairdressers and would i be interested as i'm into all that music lark and i could make as much noise as i like!

i'll look into it!

cheers

sounds good to me - security whilst your at work (due tothe hairdressers being open)...noisy when you like in evenings and sundays....and free haircuts!

I'd definatly look at it!

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http://soundcloud.com/seaapes

hehehe

also beats having a ground floor flat - main reason i didn't want one was due to security!

I lived for 10 years in a flat above a neighbour with a wooden floor between us. I built a floating floor, which worked to some extent, but was not really satisfactory. My sounds still vibrated the walls and the family below were never very happy with my experiments in hard house.

A flat above a shop is a much better option and these flats are usually cheaper to buy as well.

I now live in a flat above a Mon-Fri business so I can make as much noise as I like in the music room away from the party wall.

I reckon it is often cheaper and easier to find premises where there are no neighbours to annoy than it is to carry out sound insulation work. I spent maybe 800 pounds to build floating floors on 2 12' by 10' rooms and the level of insulation was still not enough to stop the neighbour banging the broom on his ceiling.

hi guys

alas, the place is nto available until mid decemberish - too long to wait

how does the sound travel in a flat on the GROUND floor of one of these old victorian places? there seem to be many of these around.

i have said that sound insulation is important for me to the estate agents, but i didn't tell them i plan on making a racket, they assume i'm a miserable git that wants peace and quiet etc

thanks guys

Quote The Beatsmith:

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hi guys

how does the sound travel in a flat on the GROUND floor of one of these old victorian places? there seem to be many of these around.

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Sound is omni-directional, especially bass.

If you live in a first floor flat you can still hear sound made in the flat below. There may be slightly less transmission if the speakers are on stands as the speakers will be connected to the floor of the first floor flat which is the ceiling of the flat below. In the case of a ground floor flat the speakers on stands will connected to the floor above the foundations so there will be slightly less sound transmission through the structure of the building.

To get effective sound insulation you need an airtight barrier of high mass and high absorbtion. In practice this is quite hard to do and expensive too. Esmono booth perhaps?

Beatsmith - I suggest you wait a while for the right property to become available (ie one with no neighbours) rather than attempt to sound insulate a flimsy building. Believe me - I tried it and it is not worth the hassle. If the neighbour is that way inclined they can get Environmental Health involved quite easily and you could, eventually, find yourself at the end of a prosecution for noise nuisance.

My estate agent told me flats above shops are less desirable than flats above other flats so you should be able to find one without too much bother when someone moves to a more desirable property.

This won't be relevant if you're looking at Victorian properties, but I lived a while in a new development built by Belway and it was blissfully quiet. My racket didn't seem to travel to the neighbours and I didn't hear anything from them - further imporved by good double glazing.

Converseley a friend had a flat in a flat built by Barratt and it was terrible - he could hear his neighbours every move. It didn't help that they put in laminate floors and wore wooden clogs. Honestly - I kid you not. Some people, huh?

Matt

Quote thefruitfarmer:

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Quote The Beatsmith:

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hi guys

how does the sound travel in a flat on the GROUND floor of one of these old victorian places? there seem to be many of these around.

---

Sound is omni-directional, especially bass.

If you live in a first floor flat you can still hear sound made in the flat below. There may be slightly less transmission if the speakers are on stands as the speakers will be connected to the floor of the first floor flat which is the ceiling of the flat below. In the case of a ground floor flat the speakers on stands will connected to the floor above the foundations so there will be slightly less sound transmission through the structure of the building.

To get effective sound insulation you need an airtight barrier of high mass and high absorbtion. In practice this is quite hard to do and expensive too. Esmono booth perhaps?

Beatsmith - I suggest you wait a while for the right property to become available (ie one with no neighbours) rather than attempt to sound insulate a flimsy building. Believe me - I tried it and it is not worth the hassle. If the neighbour is that way inclined they can get Environmental Health involved quite easily and you could, eventually, find yourself at the end of a prosecution for noise nuisance.

My estate agent told me flats above shops are less desirable than flats above other flats so you should be able to find one without too much bother when someone moves to a more desirable property.

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thanks mate

thing is, beggars can't be choosers, and there is prety much nothing going. i dunno if i can be precious enough to try to be looking for places with decent acoustic properties (try explaining that one to your sisters friend who's getting fed up with you being in her house...)

i'll keep lookin!

it's not even that i play my music loud, i just reckon half these places would be really bad even when listening at low levels

anyway, are you telling me you don't wear clogs matt?

Quote The Beatsmith:

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thanks mate

thing is, beggars can't be choosers, and there is prety much nothing going. i dunno if i can be precious enough to try to be looking for places with decent acoustic properties (try explaining that one to your sisters friend who's getting fed up with you being in her house...)

i'll keep lookin!

it's not even that i play my music loud, i just reckon half these places would be really bad even when listening at low levels

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yw

I don't play music loud either but it was loud enough for it gradually to give my neighbour the hump after a few years.

You always wait until they go out, use headphones or just be prepared to row with them. I always made the case to my neighbour that it was my flat and I was entitled to make a certain amount of noise. I even spoke to Environmental Health who indicated that when considering the volume and times I was making music that they would be very unlikely to be able to assemble sufficient evidence to go for a prosecution.

Quote The Beatsmith:

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anyway, are you telling me you don't wear clogs matt?

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'Fraid I can't fit the clogs over my full suit of plate-mail armour.

But my horse wears them when he's in the house.

I live in a top floor flat, and it's safe as er, a um, It's SAFE alright?

The guy below me is hard of hearing and there is noone above, the only problem is my girlfriend and her headaches!

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MySpace / Escapee Planes
Virb

Not tonight darling!

Ground floor flats in south london are plentiful, cause, c'mon, who wants to be burgled? (leave address here)

exactly why i didn't originally want a ground floor flat in the first place

so i'm going to see one today

and a two bed 1st floor victorian house flat type jobbie which is WAY over my budget but there was nothing else to see

great

There is always the house share option with similar minded people.

It will be cheaper than your own place and if someone is nearly always in there will be less chance of getting the burglers around.

tried that mate!

seen three already. putting aside the fact tha ti wouldn't wanna leave all my gear with strangers when i'm at work, the rooms have all been tiny... it's a bad time of the year as it's a very studenty town and the students have taken all the places already!

i sound like a broken record, and seem to be rejecting everyones suggestions, i know - but i do appreciate it. getting a bit desperate now - although my sisters friends don't mind me staying etc.

Quote The Beatsmith:

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i sound like a broken record, and seem to be rejecting everyones suggestions, i know - but i do appreciate it.

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Hope you find somewhere suitable soon!



It is a complex problem where quite a few things have to fall into place for a solution to be found. There is no quick and easy answer really - just some options better than others.

Hang in there Beatsmith,

Looking for a flat when you're in a hurry and on a tight budget is the most demoralising, angst-ridden hard work ever. It really, really sucks.

So good luck and don't let the bastards grind you down.

Matt

hi guys,found a flat

it's much more expensive than what i wanted to pay but

it's a purpose built building so the floors are all concrete. got a 1st floor and security is excellent

only problem is it's not gonna leave me with much cash to buy anything let alone spend £300 on a desk! and monitors... yadda yadda

will give more info when i'm actually in there, next week...

cheers!