Hi
I'm thinking of swapping my Roland 15w amp for a small valve amp...
I've been looking at reviews of the Peavey Valve King Royal 8 and the Epiphone Valve Junior - both retail at around £100.
I need an amp that I can play at lower volumes as mostly play at home, but can still be turned up when required.
As well as using the amps natural tones I'll also want to use a distortion pedal for metallica moments...
Any opinion between the two? - other amps to consider - or stick with the Roland...
Cheers

i have an Epiphone Junior , swapped the stock valves for JJs ..Sounds really rather nice..If funds allow i'd go for bulding yourself a couple of either, 1 x12 or 2 x 12s. I have a modern voiced cab which i intend to add a *Classic* voiced cab to when funds and time, allow..

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nibbled to death by an Okapi http://www.soundclick.com/tubilahdog

The Peavey Mini Colossal is 5Watt and should be more versitile than the Epiphone Valve Jnr and similar amps..........but it is more expensive.

http://www.peavey.com/products/browse.cfm/action/detail/item/116592/JSX(R) %20Mini%20Colossal.cfm

Pabs

wow ,600 dollars for an amp with one preamp valve and one EL84? that's very expensive.

You should check this out

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RAT-HOTROD-EPIPHONE-VALVE-ELECTRIC-GUITAR-AMPLIFIER- AMP_W0QQitemZ140179680661QQihZ004QQcategoryZ10171QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

great price too

The valve king royal 8 is a great bargain too. The only one I advise against,is the Ibanez Valbee

Hi - thanks for the advice

My budget is £100-150, £200 max, so that rules out the Mini Colossal unfortunately.

I've thought about getting the Epiphone Junior and having it modded with a gain and tone control and maybe a standby switch...

The Peavey Royal 8 already has these features (minus standby?) and a headphone jack so seems the most versatile out of the box and therefore better value on paper.

Not having heard either amp I'm a little concerned whether they will handle a distortion pedal ok? Can't find a local store that stocks them.

Cheers

Hmmm, you can't afford a new one (£297) but if you could find a used one you could do a lot worse than the Orange Tiny Terror. Switchable between 7w and 15w, and sounds amazing. (Oh yeah, you need a speaker cab too... sorry)

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Dynamite with a laser beam...

How about the Thomman harley benton GA5, it has a tone control, and people rave about it... Ive never tried one so can't say really...

http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_ga5.htm?partner_id=59917

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Yeah!

Quote Mr Spock:

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How about the Thomman harley benton GA5, it has a tone control, and people rave about it... Ive never tried one so can't say really...

http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_ga5.htm?partner_id=59917

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I have one for practicing and recording. Sounds great clean and when driven by my Seymour Duncan Twin Tube Classic.

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"Qui habet aures audiendi audiat"

Fender Champion 600

I like my GA5 very much, but don't hold out much hope of massive tonal variations with the tone control, as you can hardly hear any difference from one extreme to the other.

I saw a video on Youtube of someone who sells a mod for them which made the tone control a lot more useful, though, so if you're into that it might be worth investigating.

Thanks for the info on the GA5 - i hadn't spotted those, great value!!

Would it cope with a Damage Control Solid Metal Distortion Pedal I wonder...

I'll look into the Fender.

Cheers

Quote Ronnie Wibbley:

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I like my GA5 very much, but don't hold out much hope of massive tonal variations with the tone control, as you can hardly hear any difference from one extreme to the other.

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I use a graphic eq pedal for tweaking the clean sounds. Otherwise the tone controls of the Twin Tube do enough for me.

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"Qui habet aures audiendi audiat"

you seem to have missed that ebay link somebody posted above - a guy is taking those harley benton ga5 amps and modding them to a much higher standard.
i had a quick look at the page and it certainly sounds promising - it looks as though the guy really knows his stuff. for the amount of effort he obviously puts into each amp. the price seems very reasonable if not cheap.

i may be tempted myself...

Quote Samurai Jack:

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you seem to have missed that ebay link somebody posted above - a guy is taking those harley benton ga5 amps and modding them to a much higher standard.
i had a quick look at the page and it certainly sounds promising - it looks as though the guy really knows his stuff. for the amount of effort he obviously puts into each amp. the price seems very reasonable if not cheap.

i may be tempted myself...

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Hi, yes thanks for pointing that out. I've emailed the seller for some more info. Looks very interesting!!
Cheers

I would say that the smaller amps you have mentioned would sound pretty weedy and not much use for your Metallica moments that you mention.

The one drawback is the speaker that is supplied with the amps is pretty awful and small. You need at least a 12" cone to really get things moving - so, make sure this is on your list.

Have a look at the Orange Tiny Terror amp through ANY 1x12" cab. They are great - the amps are only around £300 and are ALL valve.

Have also looked at Ebay regarding the amps that are heavily modified (I think they are made under the RAT label??). They look excellent and I think you could do far worse than securing one of these.

Cheers.

The Harley Benton amps looks suspiciously similar to the Epi Valve Juniors. Are they exactly the same amp?

As mentioned, if you are looking for getting some Metallica sounds out of it, you will definitely need a 12" loudspeaker. If you do decide to go for the head/cab route, keep your eyes on eBay. I got a perfectly serviceable 1x12 cab for £21! I use it with a Matamp Little Rock which is out of your price range (£300), but superb and worth considering if you are tempted to spend the extra and get a Tiny Terror.

Also for other modded amps and mod kits including a Fender Champion 600 and different types of mods to EVJ clones to the "Rat" ones mentioned above check out

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/alnicomagnet

The you tube movies are interesting and this guy seems to know his stuff too as best I can judge! I've emailed him and received helpful and informative replies.

cheers

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Mac Pro 2.66 6GB RAM, Logic Pro, Ableton Live, RME FF800, Adam A7's

Edited by Julian_M (20/11/07 07:35 PM)

Quote Samurai Jack:

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you seem to have missed that ebay link somebody posted above - a guy is taking those harley benton ga5 amps and modding them to a much higher standard.

i may be tempted myself...

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That's what I was thinking too,I thought it strange that everybody was still talking standard production when ,as you pointed out,the ebay guy really fine tunes that amp for a mere £ 179.
I think that's very hard to beat,and price will probably rise.
I am in no way related or am the ebay seller,but I can safely say that he's really great,I once bought another amp sold as spares part from him,and arrived next day perfectly packed. He's a pro,so don't you guys miss him

Quote Mark Dagger:

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I would say that the smaller amps you have mentioned would sound pretty weedy and not much use for your Metallica moments that you mention.

The one drawback is the speaker that is supplied with the amps is pretty awful and small. You need at least a 12" cone to really get things moving - so, make sure this is on your list.



Cheers.

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Problem is,to get a Metallica type of sound,you need to crank up an EL34 or 6L6 amp at full volume,and it just so happens that many of these are rated at 50 or 100 watts.

As far as a small speaker being in the small amps mentioned above,I would not say it's a drawback. You have a speaker if you need it,and you can still connect the small amp to another cab if you want.
Even the small EL84 amps,will sound a far cry better than the crap Roland transistor 15 watts,Metallica or not.
Besides,the ebay guy that I have mentioned,surprise surprise,offers his amps in head version too,and they look amazing,check them out in his feedback.

I think I have seen all the listings on eBay that hot rod and modify the Epiphone valve junior ,and in my opinion,the guy that I have mentioned is the best one,he offers a lot more than the others.

There is another crazy american guy who,no less,rebuilds the Valve Junior interiors by hand-wiring everything,and modify the Valve Junior to accept even an EL34 !
I have heard his modified Valve Junior,and sounded REALLY amazing.
Now that's REALLY great and crazy,but unfortunately this guy does not ship out of the States

So that to me leaves out but one guy...
Enough of this. Good luck

Hi again

Thanks for all the posts/advice - really useful & informative stuff

However I can feel my budget quickly spiralling...

Guess the sensible thing is to get a Peavey Valve King Royal 8 for 100 quid and see how I get on with it, I can either mod or upgrade it at a later date if needed..

or

Stick with the Roland Cube 15 for a while longer and save up some more cash..

Thanks again
Luthor

I own a Rat Hot Rod amp, the one without the tone stack (treble,bass & middle). It's a great little amp i must say. Without a distortion/overdrive pedal it's very easy to coax out ZZTOP and Bon Scot era (AC/DC) Angus Young guitar sounds! With a distortion pedal and the preamp and power amp gain turned to around 10 o'clock you get the most perfect guitar solo tone i've ever heard! I can't really describe it. It's not only the sound but the way it responds to your picking. I can't really put my finger on it. If you then run it through a 12 inch speaker (i use a Celestion Vintage 30) it sounds ungodly! The power attenuator is a real godsend as you can control the total output level while running the amp at full chat! The only thing i don't like about it is that i wish i'd bought the model with the tone stack! As it can sound a tad boxy at times, mainly due to it's 8 inch cone, but also being only able to cut the treble and not being able to boost the other frequencies. Also EL84 valves are dirt cheap so you can chop and change brands further changing your tone. I love it!

Quote _luthor_:

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Hi again

Thanks for all the posts/advice - really useful & informative stuff

However I can feel my budget quickly spiralling...

Guess the sensible thing is to get a Peavey Valve King Royal 8 for 100 quid and see how I get on with it, I can either mod or upgrade it at a later date if needed..

or

Stick with the Roland Cube 15 for a while longer and save up some more cash..

Thanks again
Luthor

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well it's really up to you,but personally I would not wait another 5 years to get a valve amp. I'm sure that the Royal 8 will still blow the Roland out of the water. For 100 quid,you can't really beat it.

if you want to squeeze the full potential of your hot rod Epiphone,I really recommend a Weber powerbrake.

I haven't played a lot of valve gear. After a good experience with a modded Epiphone Tube 10, I went in for a Kustom Defender 5H -- can't get much simpler. It's run to a closed-back cab (Lopo Line handmade -- lovely work, built like a truck) with a 12" Celestion "Vintage 30." The head seems to go everywhere for less than 99 GBP.

There's really no comparing a 5-watt solid-state amp to a 5-watt valve amp. My Epiphone EP-800R sounds nice but won't be knocking frames off the wall, where the Kustom readily gets LOUD. I'm considering a 1x8 for it.

I have yet to use a dirtbox with it. For years, I mostly ran an OD to improve sustain, & the 5H has loads of that.

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resident troublemaker, http://forum.frugalguitarist.com/

Be a bit careful what you wish for!
The volume reduction caused in going from 15 to 5 watts is but ~5dB. Into a decent 12"guitar speaker (and I totally agree with whoever said get one!) 5watts produced nearly 107dB SPL, that'll wake next doors chavvy. If you want socially acceptable, wee small hours levels you need an power soak.

Then, cheap, single ended valve amps tend to be hummy and in anycase can never sound like a push-pull op stage, especially when overdriven.

Also, beware of mods that replace EL84s with EL34s. The latter needs twice the heater current and a cheap amp is not likely to have that spare capacity in the mains transformer, ulitmate meltdown.

There is of course a p/pull, very quiet 5watter on the market but it is well over £100 and spam forbids!

Dave.

Quote ef37a:

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There is of course a p/pull, very quiet 5watter on the market but it is well over £100 and spam forbids!

Dave.

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I can understand that. You wouldn't want to be black listed for mentioning the star of the show, would you?

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It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

Sincere apologies for accidentally resurrecting a moribund thread. I usually have the posts listed most-recent-reply-first, & my browser had other ideas, putting this one near the top.

Then again, it's a common question on forums: the search for a good-sounding small amp. Certainly worth perennial discussion, especially as the market shifts around.

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resident troublemaker, http://forum.frugalguitarist.com/

Quote Tony Raven:

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Sincere apologies for accidentally resurrecting a moribund thread. I usually have the posts listed most-recent-reply-first, & my browser had other ideas, putting this one near the top.

Then again, it's a common question on forums: the search for a good-sounding small amp. Certainly worth perennial discussion, especially as the market shifts around.

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No apology needed Tony. As you say, things move on. SoS have reviewed a couple such amps in the last year. I cannot understand why my old firm have not sent their offering in for review? The pedals did well and I am sure the amp would fair the same.

Dave.

for the record, since i have no need to be subtle, or circumspect , the Blackstar HT5 , especially in stack format (HT5S) is fecking awesome....... fantastic little thing, with a decent range of tones, loud enough to play with a band, even just about do small gigs, but capable of being quiet enough to be recorded without triggering a tsunami.


low noise even at relatively high gain levels, usable FX loop, footswitchable channels.... fantastic little thing....

yeah, in a live scenario, one could argue it's short on clean headroom, but the response to that complaint is simple, it's only 5 watts, and it's a tube amp.... of COURSE there's less clean headroom ...... if you want something clean and louder, get a bigger amp....

but if you want something that rocks, does smoking blues, has dynamic and usable range, and can be a weapon of shred with the best of them, without busting budgets too badly, then try it out....


great little tool.

Quote Off duty BBQ lighter AKA Idris:

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for the record, since i have no need to be subtle, or circumspect , the Blackstar HT5 , especially in stack format (HT5S) is fecking awesome....... fantastic little thing, with a decent range of tones, loud enough to play with a band, even just about do small gigs, but capable of being quiet enough to be recorded without triggering a tsunami.


low noise even at relatively high gain levels, usable FX loop, footswitchable channels.... fantastic little thing....

yeah, in a live scenario, one could argue it's short on clean headroom, but the response to that complaint is simple, it's only 5 watts, and it's a tube amp.... of COURSE there's less clean headroom ...... if you want something clean and louder, get a bigger amp....

but if you want something that rocks, does smoking blues, has dynamic and usable range, and can be a weapon of shred with the best of them, without busting budgets too badly, then try it out....


great little tool.

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Heh! Heh! Just thought: The reason B's don't send anymore out for review is probably because last I heard they can still sell all they can build!
Dave.

Quote ef37a:

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Be a bit careful what you wish for!

Also, beware of mods that replace EL84s with EL34s. The latter needs twice the heater current and a cheap amp is not likely to have that spare capacity in the mains transformer, ulitmate meltdown.

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I've often wondered about this: most small amps seem to use 12AX7s and EL84s. Are there any low powered (say 5W or less) marshall-alikes using EL34s out there? No doubt there is much more to it than just the valve type (class AB for marshall?) , but i'm certainly interested in a low volume marshall sound. (No need for fx loops, reverb etc). Can the ISF on the HT5 take you there? What does it do?

"I've often wondered about this: most small amps seem to use 12AX7s and EL84s. Are there any low powered (say 5W or less) marshall-alikes using EL34s out there? No doubt there is much more to it than just the valve type (class AB for marshall?) , but i'm certainly interested in a low volume marshall sound. (No need for fx loops, reverb etc). Can the ISF on the HT5 take you there? What does it do?"

Re the heaters. You might think me overcautious but the EL34 heater will pull an additional 4.6watts and that might be 25% of the total power consumption of a small 5watt amp and mains traffs get PDHot as it is!
Marshall sound? I am no player and have tin ears these days but I think a good deal of the sound is generated in the pre amp stages? Overdriven 34's are going to be B loud, even just one of them! The ISF is essentially an interactive (with mid control) sweepable notch filter. Knowing who designed the amp I would be suprised if a MV "something" isn't in there somewhere!

Dave.

The Tiny Terror could be considered closer to the Marshall category but that one is 5/15 watt depending on your selection but price will be probably outside your range.

Not sure how things are in England but the Peavey Windsor was $200 in the US and that was close to AC30/JCM800 in feel, although not very good on cleans.

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www.descentintomadness.com

Thrashing about, but... let's say the EL84 is just fine. Is there a ready swap for the 12AX7 that would raise the breakup point, & make it more suitable for heavy-metal input from a distortion pedal?

Those days are a quarter-century in my own past, but I younger players I know gravitate toward solid-state amps with something like a Tube Screamer full-time & some OD box for soloing. It's a bit jangly for these old ears, though I can appreciate the resultant "heaviness" without the natural warmth & compression of a tube-to-tube amp.

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resident troublemaker, http://forum.frugalguitarist.com/

If you mean is there a higher gain version of the 12AX7/ECC83? Not really but the TAD 7025 high grade is a very good valve for the money and generally has a dB or two more in circuit gain than a bog standard Sovtek say.

I am presently working my way through Merlin Blencowe's book on Tube Preamps for Guitar and Bass, SUCH a lot of scope for the experimentor in there!

To give just one example, the gitamp world has barely begun to explore the tonal variations of the EF86. It seems a great deal more of the qualities of the "classic" amps are in the preamp/PI than many people think.

Dave.

Quote ef37a:

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I cannot understand why my old firm have not sent their offering in for review?

Dave.

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Be careful what you wish for Dave! The January 2012 edition of SOS just landed on the door mat and on page 32 is a (not unfavorable) review of the Blackstar HT1R

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Strictly project and just for fun

Quote Frisonic:

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Quote ef37a:

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I cannot understand why my old firm have not sent their offering in for review?

Dave.

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Be careful what you wish for Dave! The January 2012 edition of SOS just landed on the door mat and on page 32 is a (not unfavorable) review of the Blackstar HT1R

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Ooo! I shall be on my newsagents' doorstep at 7am the morrow!

Dave.

Based on my experiences, EH 12ax7s seem more suited to a bit of extra gain.

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www.descentintomadness.com

Quote 4TrackMadman:

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Based on my experiences, EH 12ax7s seem more suited to a bit of extra gain.

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^ Just goes to show that today valve quality depends on where and when you get them. A good percentage of the EH 83's I saw were miccy as frup (no good as a front end) and tended to suffer from heater cathode hum.

The EH EL84 also had a tendency to red plate if mains V was coming ontop.

Dave.

Quote ef37a:

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If you mean is there a higher gain version of the 12AX7/ECC83?

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Oops! No; the opposite rather. I like the overall tone of the D5 head, but I wouldn't mind if there was a little less push from the preamp -- with a humbucker in, the amp gets readily crunchy. Sure, I can trim back the guitar's volume knob, but this throws in some muddiness.

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resident troublemaker, http://forum.frugalguitarist.com/