MartyW
new member
Joined: 25/10/02
Posts: 4
Loc: Ohio, USA
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Upgrade in recording equipment
#837912 - 03/06/10 09:30 PM
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I have been recording local church choirs, organ concerts, chamber music concerts, etc.,
live in stereo for years using DAT tape and converting to CD for members of the choirs
etc. I would now like to upgrade to a better recording system, say 96 Hz and 24 bit,
using flash card memory, and at least 4 XLR inputs. I was wondering if anyone has any
advice on what recorder to buy. I have been considering a Marantz PMD 671 (yes only two
channel), and a Tascam DR-680.
There is another question, at the moment I can
burn the recorded tracks directly to CD, but if I go to 96Hz/24 bit, I will need a program
to concert these files to CD format. Any suggestions of a good program with good
dithering.
--------------------
Martin J. Williamson
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John Willett
Sound-Link ProAudio
Joined: 07/03/00
Posts: 11956
Loc: Oxfordshire UK
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Re: Upgrade in recording equipment
[Re: MartyW]
#837998 - 04/06/10 10:32 AM
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My personal choice would be the Nagra LB or the Sound Devices 702 - then drop the files
into a DAW and edit and burn from there. I started the same way you did - using
open reel in the 1970s - converting to digital in 1983 with the Sony PCM-F1 system - going
DAT in the 1990s and 24/96 with the original Fostex FR-2 when it came out and, finally,
upgrading to the Nagra VI a couple of years ago. For many years my editing and
burning software of choice has been Samplitude - but I upgraded to the top version,
Sequoia, a few years ago.
-------------------- John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons
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Exalted Wombat
Joined: 06/02/10
Posts: 4198
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Re: Upgrade in recording equipment
[Re: MartyW]
#838001 - 04/06/10 10:46 AM
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For simply capturing a multi-mic location recording, you could do a lot worse than the
Zoom R16 http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/r16/It may not look
"high end" enough :-) But capturing digital audio is a fairly simple job, and it does it
well enough.
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Mike Stranks
active member
Joined: 03/01/03
Posts: 3056
Loc: Oxford, UK
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Re: Upgrade in recording equipment
[Re: MartyW]
#838008 - 04/06/10 11:30 AM
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You haven't mentioned budget or how many tracks you need to record simultaneously... that
will help us give sensible advice.
That said, I'd agree with the Wombat that
the Zoom R16 is exceptional value at less than £350. Gives you 8 mic pres - which aren't
too shabby - and 8-track simultaneous record. I use mine at 24-bit, 44.1KHz and am pleased
with the results. I only use mine as a capture device and then mix and master in the PC.
However, it only has phantom power on two inputs, but I get round that by using external
phanton power-supplies.
In terms of conversion for burning to CD then most
burning software will do that for you. Or you can convert to 16-bit 44.1KHz in most (all?)
of the DAWs and mastering/editing software packages.
HTH. Mike
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John Willett
Sound-Link ProAudio
Joined: 07/03/00
Posts: 11956
Loc: Oxfordshire UK
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Re: Upgrade in recording equipment
[Re: Exalted Wombat]
#838078 - 04/06/10 03:14 PM
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Quote Exalted Wombat:
But
capturing digital audio is a fairly simple job ................
Yes - but decent mic. pre-amps are not
that simple.
It's far better to stick to stereo with something decent than to
go multi-track with everything mediocre.
That's why I stayed stereo for so
many years - I only went multi-track when I bought the Nagra VI two years ago.
What the OP is doing can be done very well in stereo - I have been doing it for years -
and, as I said, good stereo is better than mediocre multi-track.
And with the
sort of music he is recording, in a live acoustic and good dynamic range, he needs the
best mics and pre-amps he can afford.
Oh - and welcome to the forum
Marty. 
--------------------
John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons
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Exalted Wombat
Joined: 06/02/10
Posts: 4198
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Re: Upgrade in recording equipment
[Re: John Willett]
#838097 - 04/06/10 04:36 PM
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Quote John Willett:
And with the
sort of music he is recording, in a live acoustic and good dynamic range, he needs the
best mics and pre-amps he can afford.
You know, I'm not too sure that we need to turn our noses up at
utility-grade mic preamps any more. There may be a few mics that respond better with
custom loading. This may be going against Holy Writ, but I'm not hearing a lot of
difference between stock preamps and boutique stuff (at least the ones that claim to be
transparant)these days. He certainly needs appropriate mics and (even more important)
appropriate positioning. Which on this sort of gig can mean BIG stands or lots of string
:-)
It also has to be mentioned that, in going from two mics to four (or
more) he introduces the possibility of completely messing things up! Whatever else, do
keep the stereo pair, exactly where it would have been placed under the old system. It
may be surprising how often it's decided not to mix in anything at all from further mics
:-)_
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narcoman
active member
Joined: 14/08/01
Posts: 8469
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Re: Upgrade in recording equipment
[Re: MartyW]
#838101 - 04/06/10 05:00 PM
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i hear less difference making pop n rock - but I hear HUGE differences between pre's when
working with choir or orchestra - church or studio.
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MartyW
new member
Joined: 25/10/02
Posts: 4
Loc: Ohio, USA
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Re: Upgrade in recording equipment
[Re: John Willett]
#838124 - 04/06/10 08:01 PM
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Thank you very much for your suggestions. I'll check the recommended equipment and
program out.
--------------------
Martin J. Williamson
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MartyW
new member
Joined: 25/10/02
Posts: 4
Loc: Ohio, USA
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Re: Upgrade in recording equipment
[Re: Exalted Wombat]
#838125 - 04/06/10 08:10 PM
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At the moment I am using AudioTechnica AT4047/SV condenser microphones and an Alesis
Studio 12 8 XLR channel mixer intoa Sony DAT and an HHB Burn It CD recorder as backup. I
digitally transfer the DAT to a Marantz PMD 670 to the CF card to get it into the computer
for tapping and tailing and simple mastering (volume adjustments more than anything else).
Budget would probably be $1000 or so (whatever I can get away with without the boss in
the house complaining).
--------------------
Martin J. Williamson
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MartyW
new member
Joined: 25/10/02
Posts: 4
Loc: Ohio, USA
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Re: Upgrade in recording equipment
[Re: MartyW]
#839338 - 10/06/10 09:09 PM
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I have investigated your recommendations. The Nagra VI is great but much too expensive
for me, over $8000. The Sound Devices 702 is only two channel, and the 4 channel version
is more than I want to spend. The Zoom R-16 only has phantom power on two XLR inputs, and
no digital inputs. I agree that I need decent microphone preamps for what I am recording
most of the time. It is also true that most of the time, two channels will be enough (I
use two mics in the ORTF set-up), but sometimes I would like one or two more inputs and
separate tracks for recording a soloist or two or other instruments (such as when I try to
record a small jazz combo). So I think I'll have to be looking at a USB or Firewire input
for my laptop computer, there are several good ones by Mackie and M-Audio with good
pre-amps (from what I read).
Marty.
--------------------
Martin J. Williamson
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narcoman
active member
Joined: 14/08/01
Posts: 8469
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Re: Upgrade in recording equipment
[Re: MartyW]
#839351 - 10/06/10 10:25 PM
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Depending on your budget, and recording the music you do, I'd look at Dav preamps (the BG
range - great and clean for this stuff) and an Aurora Lynx with firewire expansion. Will
cost you in total (the pres and the converter) about half what the Nagra would..... but
will be seriously good quality for the money. Having said that - you're almost in the zone
for an Orpheus at that price point....
cheaper? RME Fireface over the mackie
stuff you mentioned. I don't love the RME stuff - but they are okay for the money - not
brilliant - but better than the Mackie lines.
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ROLO46
Joined: 29/11/07
Posts: 1204
Loc: Cotswolds
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Re: Upgrade in recording equipment
[Re: MartyW]
#839540 - 11/06/10 04:11 PM
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Look at the Sound Devices 552 5 ch mixer,excellent pres, limits, LFA, MS
encode/decode,good headphone amp, hi rez and 2ch CF record, all in a tiny package with
XLRs and proper metering and 4ch AES/EBU digital and dc power. An absolute bargain.
-------------------- I am the Walrus.
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