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leemo



Joined: 07/08/07
Posts: 125
Loc: Sheffield
Guitar cab advice
      #918302 - 05/06/11 08:05 PM
I'm after getting another guitar cab for the studio since i'm not that happy with the hi gain sounds i get from my current cab. (a H&K cc412 with greenbacks)

Im currently looking at the mesa rectifier / roadster 2x12 cabs with the v30s, purely on the basis that i've 'heard' that they're good.

Has anyone got any opinions on these or other cabs i should consider?
I've got around £600 to spend, and im unlikely to be able to demo anything before buying.

The other option is to save some money and put 2 v30's in my current cab with the greenbacks...although 2 cabs would be nice!

Anyway, any thoughts?
It'll just be used for recording only, with amps like h&K triamp/warp x / mesa / engl / whatever anyone else brings to the studio

Cheers
L


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Jack Ruston



Joined: 21/12/05
Posts: 4066
Re: Guitar cab advice new [Re: leemo]
      #918311 - 05/06/11 09:20 PM
Um...depends what you dont like about what you're getting at the moment.

I think the Mesa cabs are overpriced for what they are.

I have an Orange 412 with v30's. It seems to work very well with a wide variety of heads. You can most likely find one used for around 350. Alternatively an older era marshall...just make sure it's really heavy like an Orange (for example). The lighter modern 1960's aren't so good.

BUT...why do you think your current cab is the problem. I'm not saying it isn't. But what head are you using?

J

--------------------
www.jackruston.com


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leemo



Joined: 07/08/07
Posts: 125
Loc: Sheffield
Re: Guitar cab advice new [Re: Jack Ruston]
      #918322 - 05/06/11 09:52 PM
im not saying its a bad cab, its great for clean / overdriven stuff, or if you use a bright guitar. just when you go for high gain it gets a bit muddy. im trying to get a more modern high gain guitar sound for some of the recordings i do, like really upfront, but the mids out of the greenbacks just get a bit harsh.

a band ive been working with recently brought in a marshall 1936 which we a/b'd with the H&K and it was tonnes better for the sound we were going for. really upfront and didnt take much effort to get a great sound from it. i wasnt massively keen with the tone from the mids for my liking but it was a big improvement, and a lot tighter. quite surprised with the result since ive used 1960's before with the same marshall head and didnt achieve anything like the tone we got with the 1936.

the 1936 is on my to get list, but im kinda set on v30's for some reason at the moment (dont ask why, ive never even used them in a good cab, maybe im just hoping for g12t's with a nicer mid)

logic for the 2*12 is price vs the powerful heads i tend to work with, and the fact i seem to get a good result from them compared to 4*12's.

heads ive got: H&K triamp mk2 / warp x
heads bands tend to bring in (recently): Marshall tsl etc / 5150 / some custom made 200 watt thing

ultimately im trying to achieve an in your face, modern rock/metal sound, with tight bass and pronounced upper mids (that sound nice).

id never thought of orange cabs, i presumed they were voiced for more the classic stuff?


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zenguitarModerator
active member


Joined: 05/12/02
Posts: 7610
Loc: Devon
Re: Guitar cab advice new [Re: leemo]
      #918345 - 06/06/11 12:23 AM
The problem with discussing cabs is that it's a lot like Dancing about Architecture.

Without doubt there are plenty of people around who have experimented with loads of cabs, drivers, and amps to 'calibrate' their ears and who can draw reasonably reliable conclusions. But the underlying problem is that there are no hard and fast answers. In many ways it's analogous to luthiery, whilst an experienced luthier has a good understanding of how different types of wood should sound, there are always exceptions. If there weren't the Chinese factories would be knocking out great guitars consistently at £150, and whilst they do well, they aren't that good and never will be.

At best, there are some loose guidelines we can apply, but there are more than enough exceptions to ensure that we can't have hard rules.

However, that doesn't mean we can't give some good general advice to help you make up your mind. And top of the list... Don't even consider buying anything you can't demo first, and don't make your choice based on 'what you've heard'. You really do need to be able to audition anything before you hand over your cash, and you make up your mind based on how it sounds, not the spec sheet.

Next, Mesa Boogie have been making some great gear for a long time, but it is grossly overpriced in the UK. As Jack has mentioned, Orange cabs are just as well built and far better value (I won't mention how little I paid for my 70's Orange 4x12, it really does make people sick with envy), and you won't find better anywhere on the planet. Modern Marshalls are a little wishy washy, but there are stacks (pardon the pun) of them around from the 70's and early 80's. But don't look on ebay for them, get out to car boot sales and start reading the local small ads. With a little smart shopping you can pick up a full stack or half stack within your budget, keep a cab, and sell the head with or without the other cab for what you paid. Same goes for Marshall 2x12 combo's with the 2x12 extension cab, you can buy the pair and re-sell the combo for what you paid.

The slant cabs and bottom cabs do sound different, and a lot of people prefer the sound of the bottom cab above the slanted top cab. And remember, a lot of those specialist boutique manufacturers in the high gain market are trying to replicate sounds made with Marshall JCM800 series gear originally. But watch out for the vintage Marshall 4x12's, the tall ones (or re-issues), they sound great.

And then there are the secret weapons, quality but underrated brands like Laney. Laney gear is exceptionally well made and is top notch. Session made some fantastic cabs in the 80's, I've always regretted selling my Session 4x10 guitar cab and regularly check on ebay to see if I can find another, it was that good. And then there are those battered old dogs that shouldn't be any good, but just seem to have that magic.. I used to have an old 70's Sound City 4x12 that sounded great with any amp; it was battered to bits, it had had two replacement drivers (both completely different), one of the two remaining matched drivers had a ripped cone, the cabinet was made from lightweight MDF. It was completely WRONG, but was wonderful. It finally had to go when the damp got to it and it fell to pieces.

Finally, old drivers can be re-coned for far less than the cost of a replacement. So don't let one dud speaker put you off a decent sounding old cab, it can usually be repaired cheaply.

With some careful shopping, selling on heads and second cabs, and listening you really could get a couple of good old 4x12's and a 2x12 for your budget. Seriously, good cabs are like good acoustic guitars, it doesn't matter what they cost or what they look like, what matters is how they perform when you put a mic or 2 on them.

Andy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.


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leemo



Joined: 07/08/07
Posts: 125
Loc: Sheffield
Re: Guitar cab advice new [Re: leemo]
      #918427 - 06/06/11 10:55 AM
cheers man thats really useful.

in hindsight i guess its a pretty varied question anyway!
ill see if i can borrow a few to try out first to try and narrow down what im after. theres a few people around here with orange gear that im sure wouldnt mind me borrowing for a test recording sess.

Cheers


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4TrackMadman
active member


Joined: 30/10/02
Posts: 1645
Re: Guitar cab advice new [Re: leemo]
      #918665 - 07/06/11 07:22 AM
From experience I can say that the Mesa cab is married very well to Peavey high gain amps (JSX, 5150, XXX, 6505) as it is darker and bassier in feel and seems to complement and open them up a bit. I would imagine the HK amps would react to these in a similar manner as tonality they are not too far from each other.

As first choice I would go with stock 1960a by Marshall. The older you can find it the better as long as the speakers are not badly worn and there are no rattles. I would buy used. Locally these are known to go for about $500-$600 around here in good shape. That in a way is the unspoken industry standard and sounds good through most of the amps out there.

--------------------
www.descentintomadness.com


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. . . Delete This
Here be Dragons


Joined: 23/06/08
Posts: 3888
Re: Guitar cab advice new [Re: 4TrackMadman]
      #918670 - 07/06/11 07:42 AM
i've yet to hear an Orange 4x12 Cab i didn't love , in pretty much any relevant application


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Madman_Greg



Joined: 07/12/06
Posts: 705
Loc: The back of beyond
Re: Guitar cab advice new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #918973 - 08/06/11 10:18 AM
If you are looking at s/h then I suggest you might like to look at Traynor

Canadian made equipment that in my opinion rivals Marshall or Fender. Especially if you can get late 60s / 70s models

For example I saw a 4x10 cab for under £70 the other day, did not eye ball was online.

I also had a Traynor YBA-1 amp and Traynor 4x10 cab used for guitar that had a tone to die for (non master volume though).

--------------------
Madman_Greg


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ef37a



Joined: 29/05/06
Posts: 5625
Loc: northampton uk
Re: Guitar cab advice new [Re: leemo]
      #919160 - 09/06/11 07:07 AM
"We" make a 4x10 60W cab now!

As well as all the others of course.

Dave.


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