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RegressiveRock
Just half a pint of cherryade for me


Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 4038
Loc: Knebworth, Herts
fxpansion - BFD
      #94503 - 27/02/05 12:14 PM

I thought I would just add a short extra review for this new Acoustic Drum Rompler which I picked up yesterday whilst auditioning mics and preamps.

As to the why I'm doing this? Well I am typing on the missus' Mum's 'puter this morning as I download 21 critical updates for it and generally tidy it up...

I have also had the opportunity to give the BFD a bit more of a workout this morning before everybody woke up to get a better general impression of the Rompler.



Alot of effort has gone into making a product that can produce a realistic final result. Almost every aspect of how the drums are miked, hit and mixed can be adjusted in real time and alot of effort has gone into making this work from the 46 layers of samples rather than simply using effects.

Individual drums:-

  • Can be detuned (FX)
  • Hit harder or softer (Samples)
  • Tuned out of the mix both direct and ambient (? Probably a mix of both FX and samples)
  • Direct trim can be altered (Samples)
  • Top bottom snare and front back kick mikes can be mixed (Samples)
  • Direct mics can be panned anywhere (Samples panned)
  • You have a choice of stereo or individual drum channels out (Samples)


Ambient mics

  • Can have there width positioning altered (FX)
  • Can have their distance from the drums moved (Predelay FX)


Finally you have Direct, Overhead, Room, Floor PZM and Master Mixbuses to acheive your overall sound from six kits where you can mix or match any percussion piece you choose. These setups can then be saved as files that appear as standard kits for you to use in future. It took me all of 15 minutes to try this out this morning as it is all fairly intuitive.

The software also comes with a good selection of built in midi grooves that you can add to from stock grooves or your own creations and then use as standard parts of your kit from then on. These take full advantage of the layering which adds to their realism. Further realism if provide by linear quantise and swing contols and a velocity proabability graph all of which can make your groove sound pretty d*mned human.

The sample sound excellent but then again the kit used to record the top quality drums is very impressive...

  • Direct - Sennheiser MD421, Neuman KM81 and M49, ElectroVoice Re20, AKG 451 and Shure SM57s through Custom API premaps.
  • Overheads - AKG C12s through Summit MPC100A tube preamps.
  • Room - Neumann U87s through Avalon preamps.
  • PZM - Crown PZM microphones through API preamps and compressed with Empirical Labs Distressors.


So there's all the good stuff and mighty good it is too. I like this Rompler alot and will be using it.

On the minus side even with streaming it is a serious memory (not CPU) hog and needs a fast hard drive... My Laptop struggled a little at times, especially as I upped the streaming by allowing more swing and velocity variation and hence requiring more layers. The rompler basically needs around 0.5MB or more memory to itself to run effectively and any slow disk drives will struggle with the streaming.

However, as long as your computer kit is well tuned... Your drum demos will be too. With two expansion kits already on the market and such a broad variety of control, you need not worry about a unique sound. One expansion set contains a series of louder kits the other an 8 bit techno set...

A valuable addition to any songwriters toolkit, this rompler will certainly help with competent demos. You might even be able to sneak it into more serious recordings...

For more information:-

FXpansion BFD Web Page
Emusician Review
TraxMusic Review

...or, of course checkout Sound on Sound.


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RegressiveRock
Just half a pint of cherryade for me


Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 4038
Loc: Knebworth, Herts
Re: fxpansion - BFD new [Re: RegressiveRock]
      #94820 - 28/02/05 10:00 AM

In my earlier review, I list three humaisation controls for BFD there are in fact four on further experimentation with a timing probability graph also being available.

Alot of though has gone into this programming!

Cheers!


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Chickenjohn
Not a chicken


Joined: 08/04/04
Posts: 465
Loc: Kent, UK
Re: fxpansion - BFD new [Re: RegressiveRock]
      #95217 - 28/02/05 09:05 PM

Sounds like decent kit Reg! Unfortunately, i may be looking at something less ambitious, as my PC has only 512meg and my Powerbook, only 768.

Did you mean the BFD needs 0.5 gig of memory??? 0.5 meg, as you said is hardly a hog these days. Something like a rock version of Stylus would be good for me.

I think my first try is a sample CD, and exs-24 perhaps!

--------------------
Chaas
cJ na


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RegressiveRock
Just half a pint of cherryade for me


Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 4038
Loc: Knebworth, Herts
Re: fxpansion - BFD new [Re: Chickenjohn]
      #95235 - 28/02/05 09:42 PM

CJ

9GB to store the samples... 0.5MB of your RAM to stream itat 24bit word length. You can truncate this to 16bits though...


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Mike C4miles
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Joined: 22/02/02
Posts: 436
Loc: Whipsnade with frogs
Re: fxpansion - BFD new [Re: RegressiveRock]
      #95636 - 01/03/05 04:42 PM

Its very good; one of my favourite VIs, and the support has been decent for such a small company. They are currently in testing with version 1.5 which will expand the number of kit pieces allowed at a time; so for example you will be able to have a full standard kit plus several percussion pieces running simultaneously. It runs well in ReWire mode, which I have to use because my DAW doen not yet allow multiple outs from a VI (only stereo). The included midi files (Grooves in BFD terminology) are useful, as they capture the full range of articulations; and BFD users have strted posting their own Grooves, made with V-Drums and the like. All in all its 9/10.


--------------------
If money is the root of all evil, what is money squared?


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RegressiveRock
Just half a pint of cherryade for me


Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 4038
Loc: Knebworth, Herts
Re: fxpansion - BFD new [Re: Mike C4miles]
      #95948 - 02/03/05 10:15 AM

Hey mjc,

I'd go as far as to say this is rapidly becoming a favorite to me...

I like the way that you can put some drums together very quickly. This ranges from a straight stereo feed from the Rompler to a whole get 14 channels to mix to your heart's desire including all sorts of room...

For example, last might this little dry piece took 1 minute to programme - if you don't want to write the beats yourself which I normally do - and including messing with a vast array of channels around 20 mins to mix with minimal FX...

Express RockFunk Drums

The only other thing I did to this was to add a little velocity and timing variation within the Rompler to get a more human feel, then bounced it down in the box...

Very realistic results, very quickly. You need a good fast DAW to get the best out of it, but the results are niiiccceee!


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Mike C4miles
member


Joined: 22/02/02
Posts: 436
Loc: Whipsnade with frogs
Re: fxpansion - BFD new [Re: RegressiveRock]
      #95998 - 02/03/05 11:48 AM

Pretty funky! It took me longer to listen to it than for you to program! I'd been recording the Pod and had totally screwed up the audio path on the Mac! Need to re-boot the cat.

Anyway, I really like the Fxpansion guys' approach. They've developed BFD using lots of input from ordinary customers, which is good to see. 1.5 should be spectacular.

Good review by the way!

--------------------
If money is the root of all evil, what is money squared?


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Mike C4miles
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Joined: 22/02/02
Posts: 436
Loc: Whipsnade with frogs
Re: fxpansion - BFD new [Re: RegressiveRock]
      #96129 - 02/03/05 03:06 PM

Forgot to mention in my first post the BFD XFL expansion kit(s) - another FOUR DVDs worth of drums and percussions. Some really lovely stuff there - kits by DW, Tama, Ludwig, loads of cymbals by Paiste, Sabian and Zildjian then loads of percussion pieces. Well worth the money, and there are extra kits pieces free on the website when you register your purchase.


--------------------
If money is the root of all evil, what is money squared?


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RegressiveRock
Just half a pint of cherryade for me


Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 4038
Loc: Knebworth, Herts
Re: fxpansion - BFD new [Re: Mike C4miles]
      #97829 - 06/03/05 12:10 AM

Well I've since tried out two of the other kits and they are all extremely well recorded. The nice thing is that you can write a tune / desgin a drum track using the Stereo plug and midi to keep things tight in terms of workflow and then just paste the MIDI file to a new session of your DAW then fire up all the direct mics and room, overhead and PZM and remix the whole from the sample stream as if you had the whole lot recorded. If you prefer you can bounce down to 14 tracks of Audio and work from there.

Nice...


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jules2005
member


Joined: 14/08/03
Posts: 34
Loc: London
Re: fxpansion - BFD new [Re: RegressiveRock]
      #117817 - 20/04/05 01:50 PM


This makes for interesting reading. I had a little look at BFD at the recent Sounds Expo and was quite impressed. It was a bit of a crush and I didn't get time to really test it out.

I've been looking for good Jazz Drum samples / Rompler etc and have so far not found anything. What do you reckon? Would BFD give me a human / realistic jazz drum groove? I got the impression that it was quite rock oriented. Are there enough nuances for jazz?

Your thoughts, as ever, much appreciated!

Cheers

Jules


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RegressiveRock
Just half a pint of cherryade for me


Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 4038
Loc: Knebworth, Herts
Re: fxpansion - BFD new [Re: jules2005]
      #118069 - 20/04/05 09:37 PM

Very quick reply Jules as I am away from my normal base of operation and don't have access at present.

The basic Rompler comes with a variety of kits including some older ones which might make for nice jazz, but lacks brush samples... I gather the XFL expansion comes with these extras although I have yet to pick it up so can't comment specifically on their usefulness.

Standard stores like DV have it on tap... well the Barnet one does...

Strongly suggest a listen!


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Silvercloud
member


Joined: 18/01/02
Posts: 176
Loc: Fleet, Hampshire
Re: fxpansion - BFD new [Re: RegressiveRock]
      #187753 - 27/09/05 07:20 AM

I bought BFD recently.

My favourite kit is the Ayotte. It sounds a lot like XTC's Terry Chambers circa the 'drums and wires' album. Very live and ringy. Excellent for rock but I did start to worry about the huuuge sound dominating the mix.

Lo and behold along comes version 1.5 for download at fxpansion and the 'ringy' problem is solved via the new added damping controls. you can now emulate that cardboard thuddy 70s drum sound by applying the damping on full. This now makes BFD an extremely versatile drum tool.

This is definitely the most convincing non loop based drum software I have ever used.

--------------------
| Apple iMac 2.4g | OSX 10.5.2 | 4GB RAM | MOTU 828 Mk I | AMT8 | Logic Pro 8.0.1 | Stylus RMX | Ohmboyz | Ampeg SVX


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RegressiveRock
Just half a pint of cherryade for me


Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 4038
Loc: Knebworth, Herts
Re: fxpansion - BFD new [Re: Silvercloud]
      #221315 - 06/12/05 04:38 PM

Yup the update is very welcome.

This has become a standard writing tool for me.


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the clash



Joined: 08/04/05
Posts: 233
Loc: Albion
Re: fxpansion - BFD new [Re: RegressiveRock]
      #221530 - 06/12/05 11:19 PM

Hey thanks for the info, my copy of BFD should be arriving this week. 0.5MB RAM?! Good job I have just got 2.5GB RAM installed in my new Dual Core PowerMac! BFD will do nicely for Acoustic Drums but I am also looking for something for Electronic drums, Stylus RMX perhaps? Im not too keen on Logic's Ultrabeat and I want plenty of of preset beats to mess about with which Ultrabeat doesn't seem to have.
Cheers.


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Glenn Bucci
member


Joined: 28/10/02
Posts: 971
Loc: Pennsylvania
Re: fxpansion - BFD new [Re: RegressiveRock]
      #221576 - 07/12/05 02:04 AM

The BFD software contains a 9 GB library with a total of seven drum kits. The need for so much memory is clear after hearing how great the drums sound. The XFL edition adds a 22 GB library on top of the original BFD. To run these smoothly, I'd recommend having a G5 or Pent IV with a minimum of 1 GB of ram. Thankfully the cost of ram is pretty cheap these days. My test computer had 1.5 GB of ram and has been smoothly running Cubase SX 3 on my PC. Using additional programs such as Giga Studio or hungry plug-ins such as Waves IR-1, it would be helpful to go to 2 GB of ram. Starting up the program there is one main screen, which is a nice touch and keeps things simple. The Groove Library contains almost 1000 patterns, and is accessed by a pull-down menu bar at the top of screen. The different types of grooves include many rock, pop, heavy metal, jazz fusion, and more. Drum grooves can be auditioned before putting them in the either Bank A or Bank B. Additionally, there are separate slots for drum fills. Once a desired groove is found, drag it into one of the slots in Bank A. BFD runs with GM mapping and allows for the ability to tune each drum and cymbal as well as control volume, dynamics, solo, mute, and panning. The mics can also be moved farther or closer to the kit, which has the affect of controlling how much bleed come through the mics.

Another great feature is the ability to blend the different kits together. For instance, if the DWR kit has been chosen as the main kit, but you want to use a different kick drum, just click the kick drum icon on the left and all the kick drums of each set shows up. Then each kick drum can be auditioned and and then selected by double clicking to install that kick with current drum kit. The kits included are DW, Pearl, Ludwig, Slingerland, Ayotte, Leedy, and Lucite. In order to make the drums sound more life like, velocity can be adjusted on the hits. BFD can deviate a little or a lot while playing a groove, which helps to alleviate that monotonous, robotic sound in which every hit on the snare sounds the same. Additionally, BFD allows for the same flexibility with the timing, and quantize features. The output of the drum kit includes Stereo, Groups or All. BFD Stereo mixes everything on a stereo track, while the Groups give 4 separate outputs of the four main groups. All gives 14 separate outs. This allows for EQ'ing part of the kit separately as well as adding reverb or compression.

The only problem I found with the BFD was that the drums had a tendency to sound big and ringy. I tried reducing the room mic level and have more overheads, but it only helped to a certain extent. Thankfully with their latest update 1.5, it gives the ability to dampen the drums as well as a cymbal grab choke, giving for even more control of the drums. Drums grooves and fills can be repeated and looped by holding down the key on a midi keyboard. The BFD program can also be triggered by the midi drum kits such as Roland V Drums. The other and less costly method is to work with several different grooves and then switching back and forth between them with a midi keyboard. Each groove and fill is triggered on a different key the keyboard. Starting on the far left side of the keyboard, each part of the drum kit can be triggered separately. You can create your own grooves which can be saved in BFD. I found a combination of using my own created grooves together with what BFD offers to be a good way to work. The only other drum program out there that gives such authentic drum sounds is Toontrack's DFH Superior. One isn't necessarily better, and they both give excellent results. The only benefit of Fxpansion's BFD is that it includes grooves and fills which the Toontrack's DFH does not. The average price for the BFD program and XFL separately is $299. FXpansion has done a great job with this program, and if you're looking for raw drum sounds, check out BFD.

--------------------
revelationsoundstudio.com

Edited by Blueberry (07/12/05 02:05 AM)


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gerard



Joined: 07/02/05
Posts: 2608
Loc: London, UK
Re: fxpansion - BFD new [Re: RegressiveRock]
      #221977 - 07/12/05 08:02 PM


i'm using Logic Express7 - does BFD work "natively" as an AudioUnit in Logic?

that is, do i need to buy that VST to AU converter thingy?



is about 180 quid (including VAT) a good price in the UK?

thanks!


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RegressiveRock
Just half a pint of cherryade for me


Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 4038
Loc: Knebworth, Herts
Re: fxpansion - BFD new [Re: gerard]
      #221995 - 07/12/05 08:39 PM

Quote gerard:


i'm using Logic Express7 - does BFD work "natively" as an AudioUnit in Logic?

that is, do i need to buy that VST to AU converter thingy?



is about 180 quid (including VAT) a good price in the UK?

thanks!




I think the only real problem child for BFD is ProTools which can only work in stereo rather than 14 separate channels, but check the website, it lists the functionality for all platforms...


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Neo-Classical Guitar...
active member


Joined: 07/08/01
Posts: 1590
Loc: Bradford, West Yorkshire
Re: fxpansion - BFD new [Re: RegressiveRock]
      #222119 - 08/12/05 12:54 AM

BFD DELUXE has been out for a little while now and comes on about five dual layer DVD's! You need to be using BFD v1.5 to be compatible and it costs the same as the XFL upgrade pack.



http://www.fxpansion.com/product-deluxe-main.php


NCGM


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RegressiveRock
Just half a pint of cherryade for me


Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 4038
Loc: Knebworth, Herts
Re: fxpansion - BFD new [Re: Neo-Classical Guitar Man]
      #300298 - 21/05/06 09:34 AM

Quote Neo-Classical Guitar Man:

BFD DELUXE has been out for a little while now and comes on about five dual layer DVD's! You need to be using BFD v1.5 to be compatible and it costs the same as the XFL upgrade pack.



http://www.fxpansion.com/product-deluxe-main.php


NCGM




Handy info NCGM...

(But I do believe you work for the distributors of this fine product... )


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Angus_FX



Joined: 09/08/05
Posts: 6
Re: fxpansion - BFD new [Re: RegressiveRock]
      #301683 - 23/05/06 04:47 PM

Quote:


I think the only real problem child for BFD is ProTools which can only work in stereo rather than 14 separate channels, but check the website, it lists the functionality for all platforms...





This was true a while back, but since Pro Tools 6.7 came out, BFD has been able to output all 34 channels to PT.


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www.7161.com



Joined: 02/09/04
Posts: 697
Re: fxpansion - BFD new [Re: RegressiveRock]
      #328085 - 22/07/06 11:46 AM

http://www.7161.com/tr/dancetech_BFD_+_VDrums_Divx.avi.torrent

a torrent link for a video of BFD & VDRUMS together featuring expansion pack 'Jazz & Funk' drums

--------------------
www.7161.com
Free online music space & Homepages


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keepinthegroove



Joined: 18/07/06
Posts: 1
Re: fxpansion - BFD new [Re: www.7161.com]
      #332388 - 31/07/06 02:58 PM

I would love to check that video out but can't get it to work. I have installed the Div x player, but it generates an error whenever it goes to play it.... any tips??

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SparkyG



Joined: 22/01/07
Posts: 202
Re: fxpansion - BFD new [Re: RegressiveRock]
      #439652 - 27/03/07 06:59 PM

Hi BFD users.

I'm yet to take the plunge although it looks likely.
I have one quesion:
I'll be using this to create drum backing tracks for live use with my duo. We currently use a Boss DR5 and hence have loads of midi files we should be able to feed into BFD.
My question though is can I reduce the amount of reverb/ambience on the sounds to almost a dry sound? I need to be able to do this since we use a BOSE line array PA (the L1 system) which radiates really wide and hence you get plenty of natural reverb at most venues (we never need reverb on our vocals).
So if I can't reduce the ambience when you add a natural room reverb as well it could all turn to mush. The demos on the website would sound terrible in a hall with our system.

Hope you can help

thanks


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mcguirk



Joined: 08/09/04
Posts: 607
Loc: Wendover, Bucks
Re: fxpansion - BFD new [Re: SparkyG]
      #439653 - 27/03/07 07:06 PM

Quote SparkyG:

Hi BFD users.

I'm yet to take the plunge although it looks likely.
I have one quesion:
I'll be using this to create drum backing tracks for live use with my duo. We currently use a Boss DR5 and hence have loads of midi files we should be able to feed into BFD.
My question though is can I reduce the amount of reverb/ambience on the sounds to almost a dry sound? I need to be able to do this since we use a BOSE line array PA (the L1 system) which radiates really wide and hence you get plenty of natural reverb at most venues (we never need reverb on our vocals).
So if I can't reduce the ambience when you add a natural room reverb as well it could all turn to mush. The demos on the website would sound terrible in a hall with our system.

Hope you can help

thanks




Yes, you can.

When using "BFD ALL", there are separate stereo outputs for the overheads, the room mics, and the PZMs, so it's totally controllable.

Beware though, the single kit sounds are *very* dry, so might need some work. That's just how I like it.


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SparkyG



Joined: 22/01/07
Posts: 202
Re: fxpansion - BFD new [Re: RegressiveRock]
      #440294 - 28/03/07 09:08 PM

Cool - Thanks for the response - soinds like it will work just fine.

Hope it is ok with Pro-Tools LE and Garage Band

cheers


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