pretty much had it with this forum, ive been on this forum under different names for several years and always found a lot of helpful people but lately ive just had flippant comments that really arent helpful. and its starting to chaff my cock, so have fun guys with the unhelpful comments

--------------------
www.humandrums.com
online session drumming at realistic prices

I hope it's not too late to ask you to reconsider; I've always valued your contributions.

Regards. Mike

Hi, HD

While I enjoy a pointless, flippant conversation as much as the next man, and maybe more, I understand what you mean.

There seems to be a bit of a trend towards heat rather than light recently but I believe it's just SOS' turn right now and that will pass.

--------------------
Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".

For what it's worth I think that recently there's been too much toleration of unfunny 'humour' and far too much arrogance from the moderators. Luckily for me I don't come here looking for advice, as I'm no longer musically active.

--------------------
Gear List: reverse only.

Edited by Dave Gate (01/05/12 07:49 AM)

There are a couple of aggressive people who've made it onto my Ignore list, but generally it's good here - certainly better than the dubious alternatives. I wish you luck finding a subjectively better forum, but I've yet to discover it.

If you move out then the people baiting you have won - don't let them win.

--------------------
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

A good measure of the moderation in this forum is how frequently they get abused and criticised, and how rarely they react to it.

Quote Dave Gate:

---

For what it's worth I think that recently there's been too much toleration of unfunny 'humour' and far too much arrogance from the moderators.

---

Surely it is inevitable that one person's sense of humour may be perceived by another as offensive in some way on occasion, particularly given the different countries, cultures, experience, backgrounds and expectations of all those who choose to frequent these forums?

What right do we have, as moderators, to enforce our own partisan views of what is 'humourous'?

Unless the (deliberately minimal) forum rules have been broken, or a significant proportion of forum users make formal complaints, there is no legitimacy in moderating a post or poster -- much as that might frustrate some of us some of the time.

However, the 'comedians' to whom you refer volunteered to leave a few weeks ago.

I am dissapointed that you perceive arrogance from the moderators, but one person's 'arrogance' might well be another's 'authority'and I am heartened by BG145's astute observation.

hugh

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

---

However, the 'comedians' to whom you refer volunteered to leave a few weeks ago.
hugh

---

Or should that read "...volunteered to change their name" ?

Apart from that I've never seen a problem with the attitudes of mods, perhaps because they've not yet noticed the drivel I write.

--------------------
Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".

The reaction to your other thread "so pleased! seems we are doing the right thing!!" seemed both friendly and encouraging.

CC

--------------------
Put the fun back into dysfunctional.
Mr Punch's Studio

Quote shufflebeat:

---

Or should that read "...volunteered to change their name" ?

---

Yes... we share your concerns and are doing our best to keep an eye out for that kind of familiar nonsense. There are a few suspects on the list...

hugh

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

---

Quote shufflebeat:

---

Or should that read "...volunteered to change their name" ?

---

Yes... we share your concerns and are doing our best to keep an eye out for that kind of familiar nonsense. There are a few suspects on the list...
hugh

---

Quote humandrums:

---

ive been on this forum under different names...

---

2+2=5?

By and large you get the moderation you invite, although that Martin Walkercan be savage at times, but I admit some posters insist on extending a one-liner into a panto.

As for being friendly, FFS Read The Manual, it's obviously something else in your set-up causing it. (Oops, slipped into Steinberg forum mode then.)

DM

--------------------
Not much in life worth running for. Or from.

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

---

Surely it is inevitable that one person's sense of humour may be perceived by another as offensive in some way on occasion, particularly given the different countries, cultures, experience, backgrounds and expectations of all those who choose to frequent these forums?

What right do we have, as moderators, to enforce our own partisan views of what is 'humourous'?

---

I've been to see Frankie Boyle live, and I did the sound and lights in a comedy club for more than ten years, so I have an idea of where humour tips over into offensiveness . . .

However, were I a moderator on this site (and I will admit to being a moderator on another site that has nothing to do with music technology), then there are/were certain people that I would have stamped on a long time before they 'resigned' as, to my mind, they gave a very poor impression of this site to somebody who may have been new here.

I will admit that I may have been a little harsh in accusing the moderators of being arrogant, but it does sometimes read that way. Maybe exasperated would have been a better word.

--------------------
Gear List: reverse only.

Quote Dave Gate:

---

However, were I a moderator on this site (and I will admit to being a moderator on another site that has nothing to do with music technology), then there are/were certain people that I would have stamped on a long time before they 'resigned' as, to my mind, they gave a very poor impression of this site to somebody who may have been new here.

---

But that's the problem Dave. Your (and my as it happens) 'poor impression' was many other people's wonderful humour and a great laugh. In my pre-mod days I was one of those who blew the whistle on the principal funster and got a fair bit of vituperation from several quarters as a result. As Hugh has already said, the mods try to operate with a light touch and only step-in if rules have been broken or the reactor's about to go critical. Any subjective judgments the mods make will upset or irritate somebody; if we use 'the rules' as our touchstone then we can be seen to be working in objective territory.

Personally, I find SOS positively genteel compared to some 'other' fora I visit.
Even those pale into a bland wash when put alongside the vicious flame wars that populate usenet

--------------------
It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

You can all sod off! Ptuks!

This is a great place with knowledgeable people and some real gems in terms of character and the selfless helping of others.

I might be arrogant but then I am really good looking and built the right way. However, I only attract small herbivores and equally short and hairy ethnics.....and yes I mean the women.

Actually, I have always tried to keep a light approach to moderation, offering acres of latitude, but there are times when it becomes both difficult and soul destroying. This mainly occurs when you know someone is here just to troll and bait others but there is little you can do until they cross the line. Recently, my attitude is starting to change and I am more and more inclined to ban people if I think they are here simply to stir things up and have a laugh.

I don't think any of the moderators are arrogant. In fact, it is the opposite. I have yet to meet such a humble bunch of people that genuinely have cause to be arrogant and yet tread humbly.

We all moderate in our spare time and for free. To me it is both an honour to help my long and dear friend Ian and a privilege to be working with such a wonderful crew of moderators.
Sadly, it is some dikheds that go and spoil it for others. Next time, and if it is me that spots the baiting and offensiveness, I won't hesitate in banning. Hell, it's a community, and always has been, not some free for all platform for people to display their stupidity and think it gets them a following of appreciative 'fans'

If anyone is unhappy then please PM one of us. If anyone thinks this is a great place to display their level of 'titness' then feel free to be that bird and watch yourself get shot down and then humiliated by other members in apres banning threads.
BUT, if you want the best resource for 'correct' knowledge coupled with a sense of genuine community (hell it has always been us that hold meets and BBQs. I don't see too many forums doing that) then you will be treated with both respect and a camaraderie.

And please remember that all three Zukan funds are still active. Remember, an ethnic is not just for Christmas.

--------------------
Samplecraze
Stretch That Note

If I might go off-topic for a second: Happy Birthday, Zukan.

--------------------
Gear List: reverse only.

Happy Birthday Eddie.

--------------------
http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale

Quote:

---

This is a great place with knowledgeable people and some real gems in terms of character and the selfless helping of others.

---

I agree.

Completely.

AND I thought Colin S was hilarious.....

Zuke! It's your birthday, man!

I still say you don't look a day over 140... in a good light... when the nurses have had you washed.

Have a special day, dude!

--------------------
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

... and it's a Harpy Burpday from me too (don't worry I won't sing).

What is it now? 21... again (and again)

--------------------
It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

Must admit to being quite suprised. I've found people here very helpful, esp. whilst I was feeling my way into digital technology - wow that's quite awhile ago now. I find I've become quite informed compared to many of my fellow musicians. As a musician I feel like a bit of guest on what to me is an engineers forum, so I do try to behave. When I've made the odd mistake people are usually quite forgiving. Maybe some people just don't like it when they are wrong and have been corrected? I think that is slightly silly, nothing wrong with making mistakes as long as one is prepared to learn from them.

So speaking I feel for the quiet majority I'm very grateful for this place, the moderators and other informed people who give their time. The humour and everything else is mild compared to most places I've seen on the net, I really can't see the problem. What did I miss, was their a particular thread where things got out of hand?

I'm sorry we haven't seen Human Drums revisit this thread as yet. He started it because he was worn down by the antics of certain trolls. However it seems to have become a discussion about how online forums should be moderated and this one in particular. There are no rules about how it is done. As has been pointed out most forums are moderated mainly by volunteers and all forums differ, by the nature of their focus. As has also been pointed out moderating an online community is a special skill. It requires giving up a lot of time and sometimes delicate judgements to be made. Sometimes it also requires a thick enough skin to take personal abuse from people who are not bright enough to spot a well intentioned 'word to the wise' when they see one. How well it is done does indeed have a huge impact upon how successful the forum is.

I knew someone who professionally moderated a large chat room that was mostly used by kids under 16. That required protecting the online community that was legitimately using the facility from bad people who found it a good place to prey upon minors. It meant stricter rules and very high levels of scrutiny/monitoring of site activity. Serious stuff.

The SOS forum is a completely different animal. Its primary purpose is as a marketing tool for a highly respected, specialist magazine. Its members are adult professionals and enthusiastic amateurs (like me). Its focus is helping each other out and sharing knowledge. Which assumes a mutual generosity of spirit. And a little bit of sounding off and exchanging views and opinions (which can of course test people's generosity of spirit). Its rules are not very different from the code of basic manners or how one is expected to behave in any pub or supermarket, or other public place. It is moderated but generally speaking with a very light hand. And quite rightly. Why should it need to be otherwise?

I get very puzzled when I see people complaining about the moderation in the SOS forum (I'm not thinking of David's earlier comment because he amended his observation and it was obviously a properly considered thought). I opened a thread last week that expressed disappointment about something to do with the magazine. It exasperated Hugh because he felt the basis of my disappointment was unfair, that expectations had already been managed and anyway I should have used an existing thread. He therefore found himself in the delicate position of having to moderate himself! He let me know he was p***ed off but in the mildest language, which was fair enough. He then set out the case for why he thought my point was wrong. What he did not do was censor me in any way. I would call that high quality moderation.

I hope we see Human Drums return to the forum.

PS Happy birthday Zukan!

--------------------
Strictly project and just for fun

Thanks a lot dudes/dudettes....



--------------------
Samplecraze
Stretch That Note

Quote Frisonic:

---

I'm sorry we haven't seen Human Drums revisit this thread as yet. He started it because he was worn down by the antics of certain trolls.

---

Hmmm.... I went through the last two months of his posts when he started this thread and really couldn't find any evidence to support his assertions. The worst I could see was a couple of slightly negative-sounding posts in different threads recently from one specific poster who is well known for his combative posting style -- although even one of those was marked with a smiley as being of humourous intent.

Moreover, HumanDrums didn't detail any specific evidence when he made his complaint here, he didn't raise any complaints privately with any of the mods, and none of the mods picked up on any specific trolling in his threads or those he responded to. So I don't think the allegation has any observable basis and I am at a loss as to his reasoning. It's all very strange...

Quote:

---

The SOS forum is a completely different animal. Its primary purpose is as a marketing tool for a highly respected, specialist magazine.

---

While that is undoubtedly one of the reasons for maintaining the SOS Forums, I would argue that it isn't it's 'primary role' at all. When the forums were conceived by Ian Gilby (Owner of SOS) the driving force was most definitely to create a space where the SOS community could interact and share information and experiences. It was very much about giving something back to those who had supported SOS over the years to help it reach the status it enjoys today, rather than trying to make money on the side by explicity promoting the magazine or related things!

Quote:

---

I hope we see Human Drums return to the forum.

---

Ditto -- and thanks for your comments regarding moderation. I wasn't suggesting you 'should have used the original thread' by the way -- merely pointing out that the issues had been previously discussed.

Hugh

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Quote Zukan:

---

This is a great place with knowledgeable people and some real gems in terms of character and the selfless helping of others.

---

And who could possibly disagree with you on your birthday!

CC

--------------------
Put the fun back into dysfunctional.
Mr Punch's Studio

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

---

When the forums were conceived by Ian Gilby (Owner of SOS) the driving force was most definitely to create a space where the SOS community could interact and share information and experiences. It was very much about giving something back to those who had supported SOS over the years to help it reach the status it enjoys today, rather than trying to make money on the side by explicity promoting the magazine or related things! Hugh

---

I stand corrected

--------------------
Strictly project and just for fun

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

---

Hmmm.... I went through the last two months of his posts when he started this thread and really couldn't find any evidence to support his assertions. The worst I could see was a couple of slightly negative-sounding posts in different threads recently from one specific poster who is well known for his combative posting style -- although even one of those was marked with a smiley as being of humourous intent.

Moreover, HumanDrums didn't detail any specific evidence when he made his complaint here, he didn't raise any complaints privately with any of the mods, and none of the mods picked up on any specific trolling in his threads or those he responded to. So I don't think the allegation has any observable basis and I am at a loss as to his reasoning. It's all very strange...

---

... and just to dot the final i here... I've sought to contact Human Drums to determine if there was anything specific that had caused him to start this thread, but have yet to receive a response.

As Hugh says...

i miss te me

(can i say that here

i've always been a big fan of this place - have learned so much....always cool here as well....

--------------------
http://soundcloud.com/seaapes

Quote:

---

RE: What right do we have, as moderators, to enforce our own partisan views of what is 'humourous'?

---

Or anyone. The only thing that decides what is funny is whether people laugh or smile. That even goes for the worst joke in the universe. If someone finds it funny, it's 'humourous' to that person. It should only ever be a natural reaction, not a calculated response or a form of applause. I know people who laugh falsely as a way of mocking or supporting a comment, but they just look monkified to those who recognise that.

all dialogue is good. This is a rare forum - better and rarer than some might think.


Edited by Mike Stranks (03/05/12 08:33 AM)

Quote Wease:

---

i miss te me

(can i say that here

i've always been a big fan of this place - have learned so much....always cool here as well....

---

Ha yes TE was bonkers.

Thing is forums seem to have a flounce half-life. The longer it goes without someone publicly leaving, the more likely it is that someone will. It's a natural law. Sometimes you get mass flounces, which are fun.

When we are all sitting in the care home, slurping tea and dunking our rich tea biscuits, we'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

+1, I learned a lot here over the years, and 'met' some nice folks...

--------------------
getting better all the time..

Quote J.A.S:

---

Quote:

---

RE: What right do we have, as moderators, to enforce our own partisan views of what is 'humourous'?

---

Or anyone. The only thing that decides what is funny is whether people laugh or smile. That even goes for the worst joke in the universe. If someone finds it funny, it's 'humourous' to that person. It should only ever be a natural reaction, not a calculated response or a form of applause. I know people who laugh falsely as a way of mocking or supporting a comment, but they just look monkified to those who recognise that.

---

ROFLMAO!

(sorry)

--------------------
getting better all the time..

In response to my poll - Sorry guys!
I did not mean to mess.. I thought it would be fun .., oh well - moving along. Sorry guys!

--------------------
17ft here! Too deep for non divers.

Too Late. Silly thing to do after the warnings. Hamund has left the Forum.

hugh

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

---

Too Late. Silly thing to do after the warnings. Hamund has left the Forum.

hugh

---

Shall we play a game? First to spot her new ID gets a free um... pseudo-balanced cable?

--------------------
Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".