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Savant

Reged: 08/10/04
Posts: 65
Loc: Kansas, USA
Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses
29/04/05 08:13 PM
Ethan,

Quote Ethan Winer:

> ABSORPTION COEFFICIENTS CALCULATED FROM C423 TESTS ARE NOT PERCENTAGES. Or, let me put it this way: <

Who said anything about percentages? I did refer to a hypothetical material that absorbs "100 percent" earlier, but that was just to simplify the example. You're the only one who keeps talking about percentages.

The word "incorrigible" comes to mind here for some reason.

Quote:

Do you agree with the basic premise of my statement, that edge surface is the primary reason absorption coefficients can be greater than 1? And if not, why not?

The reasons for absorption coefficients calculated using the reverb room method being greater than 1.0 include, but are not limited to:

Quote John Kopec, former Director of Riverbank Acoustical Labs:

A. Specimen Shape: Odd shaped specimens may...create additional absorption due to interactions between them. For example, absorption coefficients become meaningless when testing theater seats. Thus results on theater seats are given in Sabins per unit rather than Sabins per area.

B. Specimen Size: If a specimen is large in relationship to the test room, increased absorption may result. If a specimen takes up too much space, the sound diffusion in the room is decreased and, depending upon the location or the closeness of the microphone to the absorptive material, higher absorption could (result).

C. Diffraction/Bending Wave Effects: Essentially the bending wave effect, also known as diffraction effects, theory of absorption is that certain sized or shaped
specimens can cause the sound waves to bend around them, turn, or bounce back and forth. The energy used up by the sound wave bending, turning or bouncing around a specimen shows up as increased absorption caused by the specimen.

D. Edge Effects: The edges of some samples are not included in the area used to calculate absorption coefficients. For example, the area used to calculate absorption coefficients on office panels is the width and height of both sides (face arras) only. Although the edges of the panels are exposed to the sound and can provide additional absorption, the edge arras is not included in the calculations. Thus, the thickness of an office panel can be a major contributor to the coefficients exceeding 1.00.

To answer your question directly, I would disagree since there are three other reasons given above by someone that knows more about the topic than both of us. Please let me know how I didn't answer the question this time.

Quote:

> And as for the impulse argument ... One BS waste of time is enough. <

Thanks very much for your assistance. That's exactly the type of intentional avoidance I was referring to.

You're very welcome.

Best regards,

Jeff D. Szymanski
Chief Acoustical Engineer
Auralex Acoustics, Inc.

--------------------
All the best,
Savant

Edited by Savant (29/04/05 08:25 PM)

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 Entire thread Subject Posted by Posted on Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 20/04/05 08:45 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Hugh Robjohns 02/05/05 09:38 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses daveyd 02/05/05 08:43 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Eric Desart 02/05/05 03:56 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Scottdru 02/05/05 02:32 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses daveyd 01/05/05 10:54 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses daveyd 01/05/05 09:22 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg 01/05/05 10:25 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Rod Gervais 01/05/05 03:44 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg 01/05/05 06:55 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Rod Gervais 01/05/05 11:57 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses thefruitfarmer 01/05/05 08:31 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Eric Desart 30/04/05 03:43 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 02/05/05 12:01 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Eric Desart 02/05/05 01:55 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Scottdru 02/05/05 03:18 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Eric Desart 30/04/05 08:14 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock 29/04/05 11:35 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 01/05/05 11:46 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock 02/05/05 12:14 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Eric Desart 02/05/05 02:44 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock 02/05/05 05:14 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Hugh Robjohns 30/04/05 10:09 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock 30/04/05 03:22 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Hugh Robjohns 30/04/05 09:04 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock 01/05/05 12:15 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Hugh Robjohns 01/05/05 02:06 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock 01/05/05 11:47 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Hugh Robjohns 02/05/05 09:27 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg 30/04/05 10:21 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Hugh Robjohns 30/04/05 10:36 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Savant 29/04/05 10:19 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 01/05/05 11:37 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Rick Fitzpatrick 29/04/05 04:58 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Eric Desart 29/04/05 05:24 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Rick Fitzpatrick 29/04/05 04:44 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Savant 29/04/05 08:14 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Rick Fitzpatrick 29/04/05 07:28 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Savant 29/04/05 02:24 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Scottdru 29/04/05 12:19 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses MarkEdmonds 28/04/05 08:32 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock 28/04/05 10:58 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg 29/04/05 09:28 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 29/04/05 05:35 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg 29/04/05 05:40 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Scottdru 29/04/05 07:17 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 28/04/05 08:48 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses MarkEdmonds 28/04/05 09:13 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 28/04/05 09:36 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock 28/04/05 02:17 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg 28/04/05 05:40 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg 28/04/05 05:51 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Scottdru 28/04/05 01:21 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg 28/04/05 02:00 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg 28/04/05 02:22 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Scottdru 28/04/05 12:08 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 28/04/05 06:04 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock 28/04/05 07:02 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 28/04/05 07:42 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock 28/04/05 08:14 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 28/04/05 08:22 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Hugh Robjohns 27/04/05 09:37 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Rick Fitzpatrick 27/04/05 04:36 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock 27/04/05 04:11 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 27/04/05 06:54 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Rick Fitzpatrick 27/04/05 04:25 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 27/04/05 06:47 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Savant 27/04/05 02:51 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 27/04/05 07:13 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Savant 27/04/05 07:31 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 27/04/05 07:46 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Savant 28/04/05 07:25 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 28/04/05 08:02 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Scottdru 29/04/05 03:21 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 29/04/05 05:17 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Scottdru 29/04/05 06:41 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 01/05/05 11:23 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 29/04/05 08:05 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Scottdru 29/04/05 08:42 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Savant 28/04/05 11:06 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 29/04/05 05:07 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Savant 29/04/05 08:13 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 01/05/05 11:16 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Eric Desart 29/04/05 06:57 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 29/04/05 08:19 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 29/04/05 08:22 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Avare 27/04/05 09:12 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 27/04/05 09:47 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Avare 26/04/05 09:47 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 26/04/05 09:52 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 26/04/05 09:58 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock 27/04/05 02:22 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 27/04/05 06:39 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Avare 26/04/05 06:22 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 26/04/05 08:21 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 26/04/05 07:56 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Avare 26/04/05 08:15 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 26/04/05 08:25 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg 26/04/05 06:48 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 26/04/05 07:58 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg 26/04/05 10:04 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 26/04/05 10:30 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Savant 25/04/05 10:06 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 26/04/05 05:29 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Savant 26/04/05 10:45 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Rick Fitzpatrick 25/04/05 05:26 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 25/04/05 05:38 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Rick Fitzpatrick 23/04/05 10:05 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Avare 20/04/05 11:13 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg 20/04/05 10:46 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 22/04/05 12:24 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock 22/04/05 12:33 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 22/04/05 12:40 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg 20/04/05 10:48 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg 20/04/05 11:14 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 21/04/05 07:48 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Scottdru 22/04/05 01:11 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 22/04/05 04:15 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg 22/04/05 06:01 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Hugh Robjohns 25/04/05 11:05 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg 25/04/05 02:29 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 22/04/05 06:25 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg 22/04/05 06:42 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 22/04/05 07:31 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg 22/04/05 09:30 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 23/04/05 04:39 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock 23/04/05 05:42 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 24/04/05 04:18 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock 24/04/05 09:37 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg 22/04/05 02:21 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 22/04/05 04:14 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg 22/04/05 09:42 AM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses thefruitfarmer 21/04/05 11:26 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg 20/04/05 11:23 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg 20/04/05 11:26 PM Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Dark Fader 21/04/05 08:23 AM

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