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Savant



Reged: 08/10/04
Posts: 65
Loc: Kansas, USA
Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses
      29/04/05 08:13 PM
Ethan,

Quote Ethan Winer:

> ABSORPTION COEFFICIENTS CALCULATED FROM C423 TESTS ARE NOT PERCENTAGES. Or, let me put it this way: <

Who said anything about percentages? I did refer to a hypothetical material that absorbs "100 percent" earlier, but that was just to simplify the example. You're the only one who keeps talking about percentages.



The word "incorrigible" comes to mind here for some reason.


Quote:

Do you agree with the basic premise of my statement, that edge surface is the primary reason absorption coefficients can be greater than 1? And if not, why not?



The reasons for absorption coefficients calculated using the reverb room method being greater than 1.0 include, but are not limited to:

Quote John Kopec, former Director of Riverbank Acoustical Labs:

A. Specimen Shape: Odd shaped specimens may...create additional absorption due to interactions between them. For example, absorption coefficients become meaningless when testing theater seats. Thus results on theater seats are given in Sabins per unit rather than Sabins per area.

B. Specimen Size: If a specimen is large in relationship to the test room, increased absorption may result. If a specimen takes up too much space, the sound diffusion in the room is decreased and, depending upon the location or the closeness of the microphone to the absorptive material, higher absorption could (result).

C. Diffraction/Bending Wave Effects: Essentially the bending wave effect, also known as diffraction effects, theory of absorption is that certain sized or shaped
specimens can cause the sound waves to bend around them, turn, or bounce back and forth. The energy used up by the sound wave bending, turning or bouncing around a specimen shows up as increased absorption caused by the specimen.

D. Edge Effects: The edges of some samples are not included in the area used to calculate absorption coefficients. For example, the area used to calculate absorption coefficients on office panels is the width and height of both sides (face arras) only. Although the edges of the panels are exposed to the sound and can provide additional absorption, the edge arras is not included in the calculations. Thus, the thickness of an office panel can be a major contributor to the coefficients exceeding 1.00.





To answer your question directly, I would disagree since there are three other reasons given above by someone that knows more about the topic than both of us. Please let me know how I didn't answer the question this time.


Quote:

> And as for the impulse argument ... One BS waste of time is enough. <

Thanks very much for your assistance. That's exactly the type of intentional avoidance I was referring to.



You're very welcome.

Best regards,

Jeff D. Szymanski
Chief Acoustical Engineer
Auralex Acoustics, Inc.

--------------------
All the best,
Savant

Edited by Savant (29/04/05 08:25 PM)

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* Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer 20/04/05 08:45 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator   02/05/05 09:38 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses daveyd   02/05/05 08:43 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Eric Desart   02/05/05 03:56 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Scottdru   02/05/05 02:32 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses daveyd   01/05/05 10:54 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses daveyd   01/05/05 09:22 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg   01/05/05 10:25 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Rod Gervais   01/05/05 03:44 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg   01/05/05 06:55 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Rod Gervais   01/05/05 11:57 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses thefruitfarmer   01/05/05 08:31 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Eric Desart   30/04/05 03:43 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   02/05/05 12:01 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Eric Desart   02/05/05 01:55 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Scottdru   02/05/05 03:18 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Eric Desart   30/04/05 08:14 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock   29/04/05 11:35 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   01/05/05 11:46 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock   02/05/05 12:14 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Eric Desart   02/05/05 02:44 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock   02/05/05 05:14 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator   30/04/05 10:09 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock   30/04/05 03:22 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator   30/04/05 09:04 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock   01/05/05 12:15 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator   01/05/05 02:06 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock   01/05/05 11:47 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator   02/05/05 09:27 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg   30/04/05 10:21 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator   30/04/05 10:36 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Savant   29/04/05 10:19 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   01/05/05 11:37 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Rick Fitzpatrick   29/04/05 04:58 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Eric Desart   29/04/05 05:24 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Rick Fitzpatrick   29/04/05 04:44 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Savant   29/04/05 08:14 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Rick Fitzpatrick   29/04/05 07:28 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Savant   29/04/05 02:24 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Scottdru   29/04/05 12:19 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses MarkEdmonds   28/04/05 08:32 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock   28/04/05 10:58 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg   29/04/05 09:28 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   29/04/05 05:35 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg   29/04/05 05:40 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Scottdru   29/04/05 07:17 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   28/04/05 08:48 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses MarkEdmonds   28/04/05 09:13 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   28/04/05 09:36 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock   28/04/05 02:17 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg   28/04/05 05:40 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg   28/04/05 05:51 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Scottdru   28/04/05 01:21 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg   28/04/05 02:00 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg   28/04/05 02:22 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Scottdru   28/04/05 12:08 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   28/04/05 06:04 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock   28/04/05 07:02 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   28/04/05 07:42 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock   28/04/05 08:14 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   28/04/05 08:22 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator   27/04/05 09:37 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Rick Fitzpatrick   27/04/05 04:36 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock   27/04/05 04:11 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   27/04/05 06:54 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Rick Fitzpatrick   27/04/05 04:25 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   27/04/05 06:47 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Savant   27/04/05 02:51 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   27/04/05 07:13 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Savant   27/04/05 07:31 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   27/04/05 07:46 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Savant   28/04/05 07:25 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   28/04/05 08:02 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Scottdru   29/04/05 03:21 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   29/04/05 05:17 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Scottdru   29/04/05 06:41 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   01/05/05 11:23 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   29/04/05 08:05 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Scottdru   29/04/05 08:42 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Savant   28/04/05 11:06 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   29/04/05 05:07 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Savant   29/04/05 08:13 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   01/05/05 11:16 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Eric Desart   29/04/05 06:57 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   29/04/05 08:19 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   29/04/05 08:22 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Avare   27/04/05 09:12 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   27/04/05 09:47 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Avare   26/04/05 09:47 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   26/04/05 09:52 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   26/04/05 09:58 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock   27/04/05 02:22 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   27/04/05 06:39 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Avare   26/04/05 06:22 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   26/04/05 08:21 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   26/04/05 07:56 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Avare   26/04/05 08:15 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   26/04/05 08:25 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg   26/04/05 06:48 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   26/04/05 07:58 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg   26/04/05 10:04 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   26/04/05 10:30 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Savant   25/04/05 10:06 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   26/04/05 05:29 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Savant   26/04/05 10:45 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Rick Fitzpatrick   25/04/05 05:26 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   25/04/05 05:38 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Rick Fitzpatrick   23/04/05 10:05 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Avare   20/04/05 11:13 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg   20/04/05 10:46 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   22/04/05 12:24 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock   22/04/05 12:33 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   22/04/05 12:40 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg   20/04/05 10:48 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg   20/04/05 11:14 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   21/04/05 07:48 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Scottdru   22/04/05 01:11 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   22/04/05 04:15 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg   22/04/05 06:01 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator   25/04/05 11:05 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg   25/04/05 02:29 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   22/04/05 06:25 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg   22/04/05 06:42 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   22/04/05 07:31 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg   22/04/05 09:30 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   23/04/05 04:39 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock   23/04/05 05:42 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   24/04/05 04:18 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Paul Woodlock   24/04/05 09:37 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg   22/04/05 02:21 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Ethan Winer   22/04/05 04:14 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg   22/04/05 09:42 AM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses thefruitfarmer   21/04/05 11:26 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg   20/04/05 11:23 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses bert stoltenborg   20/04/05 11:26 PM
. * Re: Bill Eppler on cue balls, modes, diffraction, and impulses Dark Fader   21/04/05 08:23 AM

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