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tomafd



Reged: 03/10/05
Posts: 3468
Loc: uk
Re: Pirate Bay found guilty
      19/04/09 04:19 PM
Quote Chaconne:


But book publishing is the same is it not - major houses repackaging the classics, not investing in new writers, churning out tired genres like 'chic lit', applying disproportionate muscle on distributors, friends in the broadsheet review sections etc etc.

Well then, as far as I am concerned, for those reasons alone I hope we soon see the end of 'books' and people getting paid to write.




Let me just see if I've got this right.

The commercial activities of various companies (books or music) can be described as nefarious and not primarily in the cause of 'art' ... and therefore the artists who provide the content that these people sell - and who have little to no control over the various practices used to sell it - shouldn't get paid for what they do.

I think that's it.

And somehow this is supposed to produce 'better' art, and generally be A Good Thing ?

Hmmm....

On the one hand, we have a model where an artist goes to someone who has money, and says, 'excuse me, I'd like some, so I can give up the day job and devote more time to producing this stuff which I think you could probably sell'. Money= time= more time to spend writing, revising, whatever = usually better art. In the case of publishers, the process usually involves an editor (in music, a producer) who has a look/listen and often makes suggestions which in most cases improves the artwork further. Once it's finished, there's further money available to manufacture it and promote it. With any luck, enough of it sells to pay back the folk who've invested in it, who then give the artist more money so they can spend some time writing/composing another artwork.

On the other hand, we have a model where the artist will not receive any back-up, either financial or advisory, and will be responsible not only for creating the artwork, but manufacturing it and promoting it as well, presumably paying for all this out of their own pocket. There won't be any editors or producers to give them a helping hand, and they'll be doing it all in the only time left to them after slaving for 8 hours a day at some shitty job. They'll be getting grief from their partners for spending all this time and money on something which won't make any, and if they have kids, won't be giving them anything like the care, time, and attention they need, because they'll be spending all their spare time creating the artwork. Eventually, they'll upload the artwork to some website where anyone can take it, enjoy it, and have their lives enhanced by it, for free.....

..... if anyone has noticed it's there in the first place- which they probably won't- because the artist will have no money for promotion and won't get any reviews, anywhere, since no-one will know it exists. In the meantime, the wife and kids have moved out ... and the artwork will probably not be very good, because there's been no-one to say 'whoops, geezer, don't you think that's a bit self indulgent/long-winded/lacking in focus/ badly played/badly recorded and maybe you should go back and take another shot?' The artist then ends up with no money, no partner, and probably no job either, since he/she may well have taken a few too many sickies trying to get the damn thing finished. The chances of them ever creating another will be slim indeed.

Yeah, sure, I really like that second model. I can really see how that's going to improve the quality of books and music, make it really easy for everyone to find it, and the artist is going to find it really easy to go on making the art, and his/her partner is really going to love the fact that all their spare time is spent on something that doesn't involve them, and chews up all the family savings and/or mortgage money. Yeah, lovely, let's do it ....




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Subject Posted by Posted on
* Pirate Bay found guilty Brian Moynihan 17/04/09 09:20 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator   28/04/09 04:31 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dr Whom   28/04/09 01:52 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty narcoman   28/04/09 02:27 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Handlestash   28/04/09 02:33 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Ian Stewart   28/04/09 11:53 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Jez (mahoobley)   28/04/09 11:39 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty blue manga   28/04/09 10:27 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Ian Stewart   28/04/09 07:24 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Shivanand   28/04/09 08:09 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty boymarsh   27/04/09 08:30 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty yrrapt   27/04/09 08:49 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty boymarsh   27/04/09 09:31 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Ian Stewart   27/04/09 09:42 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Korff   27/04/09 10:02 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty narcoman   27/04/09 06:29 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty blue manga   28/04/09 08:45 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty yrrapt   27/04/09 08:05 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty narcoman   27/04/09 10:47 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dr Whom   27/04/09 05:47 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty MC Deli   27/04/09 06:11 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Ian Stewart   27/04/09 06:52 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty ZukanModerator   28/04/09 10:17 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Barney_Bear   25/04/09 07:41 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Ian Stewart   25/04/09 04:39 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty A Non O Miss   25/04/09 05:33 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty narcoman   26/04/09 07:10 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty A Non O Miss   26/04/09 10:02 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty narcoman   26/04/09 11:11 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty A Non O Miss   28/04/09 12:41 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty MC Deli   26/04/09 07:58 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty A Non O Miss   26/04/09 06:29 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Ian Stewart   25/04/09 08:44 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Ian Stewart   25/04/09 07:19 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty ken long   25/04/09 08:09 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Barney_Bear   24/04/09 08:47 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Steve Hill   25/04/09 12:05 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Arpangel   28/04/09 01:46 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dr Whom   24/04/09 01:46 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Ian Stewart   24/04/09 08:33 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Steve Hill   24/04/09 06:35 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dameo   23/04/09 06:53 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Steve Hill   23/04/09 07:27 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dameo   23/04/09 07:36 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty narcoman   26/04/09 07:06 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty narcoman   26/04/09 09:23 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Steve Hill   26/04/09 08:22 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Steve Hill   23/04/09 07:39 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dameo   23/04/09 07:52 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Steve Hill   23/04/09 08:17 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dameo   23/04/09 08:38 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Steve Hill   23/04/09 06:49 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dameo   23/04/09 06:29 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dr Whom   23/04/09 02:21 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty ezza   23/04/09 01:31 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty narcoman   23/04/09 01:39 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty boymarsh   23/04/09 04:01 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty narcoman   23/04/09 04:13 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty (Attn: Steve Hill) IP-Lawyer   23/04/09 01:10 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty (Attn: Steve Hill) Steve Hill   23/04/09 03:55 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty (Attn: Steve Hill) hollowsun   23/04/09 05:40 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty (Attn: Steve Hill) narcoman   23/04/09 01:27 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty (Attn: Steve Hill) ezza   23/04/09 01:38 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty (Attn: Steve Hill) narcoman   23/04/09 01:40 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty (Attn: Steve Hill) ezza   23/04/09 01:50 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty (Attn: Steve Hill) (left in protest at piss poor moderation)   23/04/09 01:58 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty oliallard   22/04/09 11:28 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty GlynB   22/04/09 11:21 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Shambolic Charm   22/04/09 10:36 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty tomafd   22/04/09 09:29 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty CrunchyPunch   23/04/09 11:52 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty tomafd   23/04/09 02:27 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Handlestash   23/04/09 02:38 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dr Whom   23/04/09 01:17 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dr Whom   22/04/09 10:28 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty ezza   22/04/09 06:54 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Steve Hill   22/04/09 07:41 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty ezza   22/04/09 08:30 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty tomafd   22/04/09 08:48 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty ezza   22/04/09 09:28 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty vinyl_junkie   21/04/09 11:43 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty hollowsun   22/04/09 01:28 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty . . . Delete This User . . .   22/04/09 10:20 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty hollowsun   22/04/09 11:08 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty GlynB   21/04/09 12:08 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty feline1   21/04/09 11:28 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty MC Deli   21/04/09 10:01 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty blue manga   21/04/09 10:06 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty MC Deli   21/04/09 01:45 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty hollowsun   21/04/09 09:15 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty blue manga   21/04/09 10:03 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty (left in protest at piss poor moderation)   22/04/09 11:30 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Steve Hill   22/04/09 02:04 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dr Whom   23/04/09 11:22 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty (left in protest at piss poor moderation)   22/04/09 06:07 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Steve Hill   23/04/09 07:42 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty narcoman   23/04/09 10:44 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty (left in protest at piss poor moderation)   23/04/09 10:31 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty narcoman   23/04/09 10:38 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty (left in protest at piss poor moderation)   23/04/09 11:00 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty narcoman   23/04/09 01:36 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty (left in protest at piss poor moderation)   23/04/09 01:52 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty narcoman   23/04/09 02:24 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Handlestash   23/04/09 02:36 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Handlestash   23/04/09 02:02 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty (left in protest at piss poor moderation)   23/04/09 02:23 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Handlestash   23/04/09 02:47 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Steve Hill   23/04/09 11:11 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty GlynB   22/04/09 12:09 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dameo   21/04/09 07:44 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Stan   20/04/09 11:36 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty jayzed   20/04/09 09:21 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty ken long   20/04/09 09:37 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Steve Hill   20/04/09 11:05 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty ken long   20/04/09 11:20 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty turbodave   20/04/09 08:50 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty . . . Delete This User . . .   20/04/09 10:00 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty hollowsun   20/04/09 11:19 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty MC Deli   20/04/09 05:17 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty table for two   20/04/09 03:22 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty micros   20/04/09 11:26 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty MC Deli   20/04/09 11:49 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty tomafd   20/04/09 03:06 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dameo   20/04/09 10:08 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty MC Deli   20/04/09 10:20 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dameo   20/04/09 10:26 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty MC Deli   20/04/09 10:06 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dameo   20/04/09 09:58 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Stan   19/04/09 11:08 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dameo   19/04/09 08:13 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dameo   19/04/09 07:09 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty MC Deli   20/04/09 09:58 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty MC Deli   20/04/09 10:39 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Steve Hill   19/04/09 05:41 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty soulata   23/04/09 10:23 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty feline1   20/04/09 04:24 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Chaconne   19/04/09 05:27 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dameo   19/04/09 04:33 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Chaconne   19/04/09 03:04 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty tomafd   19/04/09 04:19 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty GlynB   20/04/09 08:29 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dameo   19/04/09 01:49 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Chris No.1   19/04/09 02:23 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty MC Deli   19/04/09 11:04 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Shambolic Charm   19/04/09 05:19 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty vinyl_junkie   19/04/09 02:27 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty IvanSC   19/04/09 09:29 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Kwaidan   19/04/09 09:36 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Chucho   20/04/09 10:10 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty tomafd   19/04/09 02:48 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty . . . Delete This User . . .   19/04/09 03:05 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Phil O   19/04/09 10:15 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Pashmina   19/04/09 01:05 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty hollowsun   18/04/09 09:03 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Kwaidan   18/04/09 08:34 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Steve Hill   18/04/09 09:21 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Shambolic Charm   19/04/09 09:01 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Chris No.1   18/04/09 01:41 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dameo   18/04/09 01:39 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dameo   18/04/09 01:13 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Steve Hill   18/04/09 01:24 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dameo   18/04/09 01:04 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Spangler   18/04/09 12:57 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dameo   18/04/09 12:56 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Brian Moynihan   18/04/09 12:11 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Shambolic Charm   18/04/09 03:50 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty E D   18/04/09 06:33 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Steve Hill   18/04/09 08:11 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty E D   19/04/09 05:57 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Steve Hill   19/04/09 06:32 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty ken long   19/04/09 11:08 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Brian Moynihan   18/04/09 07:45 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty jj pep   18/04/09 06:50 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty The Red Bladder   18/04/09 11:32 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator   18/04/09 03:18 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Steve Hill   18/04/09 01:04 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty ken long   18/04/09 09:36 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty hollowsun   19/04/09 12:51 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty BubbleButt   18/04/09 12:34 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Shambolic Charm   18/04/09 11:21 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Shambolic Charm   18/04/09 11:17 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Shambolic Charm   18/04/09 11:07 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty James T Bigglesworth   18/04/09 11:16 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty James T Bigglesworth   18/04/09 11:03 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Shambolic Charm   18/04/09 11:00 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Steve Hill   18/04/09 10:56 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Shambolic Charm   18/04/09 10:50 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Shambolic Charm   18/04/09 10:43 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty jj pep   18/04/09 10:30 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty ZukanModerator   18/04/09 09:42 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty --   18/04/09 08:49 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Eddie The Red   18/04/09 09:00 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Chris No.1   17/04/09 08:25 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty max1274   17/04/09 08:16 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty turbodave   17/04/09 07:52 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dr Whom   17/04/09 07:43 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dr Whom   17/04/09 06:08 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Stan   17/04/09 05:45 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Disc Wizards   17/04/09 04:10 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dr Whom   17/04/09 03:11 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty CRM27   17/04/09 02:42 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty ezza   17/04/09 01:51 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Nathy   17/04/09 01:34 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Chris No.1   17/04/09 12:31 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty The Red Bladder   17/04/09 12:16 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Arpangel   27/04/09 06:36 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty ZukanModerator   28/04/09 10:19 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty The Red Bladder   28/04/09 02:52 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty The Red Bladder   28/04/09 08:18 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty emitime   28/04/09 02:58 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty The Red Bladder   28/04/09 03:23 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Barney_Bear   28/04/09 09:46 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Ian Stewart   28/04/09 08:43 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Richard Graham   28/04/09 01:01 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Ian Stewart   28/04/09 02:02 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty tomafd   28/04/09 01:17 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Richard Graham   28/04/09 01:20 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty tomafd   27/04/09 08:06 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty narcoman   27/04/09 10:49 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dishpan   17/04/09 08:27 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty E D   18/04/09 01:32 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dishpan   18/04/09 01:56 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty MC Deli   17/04/09 05:58 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty ken long   17/04/09 01:28 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty narcoman   17/04/09 01:11 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Richard Graham   23/04/09 01:23 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dr Whom   17/04/09 10:20 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty E D   18/04/09 01:11 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Ian Savage   18/04/09 01:45 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty E D   18/04/09 01:58 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Steve Hill   18/04/09 05:57 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty martin randle   28/04/09 10:32 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty GlynB   28/04/09 11:10 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty soulata   28/04/09 10:50 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Shambolic Charm   18/04/09 10:27 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Richard Graham   23/04/09 01:54 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty narcoman   19/04/09 08:19 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Shambolic Charm   19/04/09 08:55 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty MC Deli   18/04/09 08:00 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Eddie The Red   18/04/09 08:42 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Brian Moynihan   17/04/09 12:20 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty stompertje   18/04/09 03:50 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Steve Hill   18/04/09 05:47 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Brian Moynihan   18/04/09 05:38 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty ken long   18/04/09 07:15 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty ezza   18/04/09 06:39 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Brian Moynihan   18/04/09 07:40 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty ezza   19/04/09 07:35 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Brian Moynihan   18/04/09 05:43 PM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty MC Deli   17/04/09 11:17 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Steve Hill   17/04/09 10:59 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Wilhelm Kurtz   17/04/09 10:47 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Dameo   17/04/09 09:57 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty narcoman   17/04/09 10:04 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty SecretSam   17/04/09 09:45 AM
. * Re: Pirate Bay found guilty Phil O   17/04/09 09:58 AM

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