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Using a Yamaha THR 10....

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Using a Yamaha THR 10....

Postby Gone To Lunch » Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:25 am

I am soon to record an electric rhythm guitar track, 60s Motown style, 2 & 4 backbeat chords sort of thing, and my guitarist wants to use his Yamaha THR 10. So can I safely presume that I can just mic it up using my small diaphragm condenser, Neumann KM183 ?
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Re: Using a Yamaha THR 10....

Postby Yamaha Guitar Development » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:17 pm

Hi,

A KM183 should work well to mic the THR10 - in all honesty, a large-diaphragm mic might pick up the low end a little better from the ful-range speakers but with a little experimentation, it should work well - it does need a slightly different technique to a regular guitar amp. Do try the DI/USB output though as this sits pretty well in a mix.
One thing - if you're going to mic it, turning off the Extended Stereo Technology will help stop any phasing issues: either turn it off using the editor, or turn the DLY and FX controls to minimum and hold the tap tempo button for 10 seconds or so (until the sharp sign appears in the display). Just repeat the process to switch it back on.

Good luck!

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Re: Using a Yamaha THR 10....

Postby Gone To Lunch » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:29 pm

Hi,

Thanks for your helpful reply. I am not a guitarist, so this area is new to me....

I also have a Neumann TLM 103 large diaphragm condenser, so I'll try that as well, maybe record from both just for my own sonic education....

I wonder also, could one record from the jack line out ? I can't use the USB as there isn't one on my interface, which is a MOTU 828 mk3, and my DAW is Digital Performer. That is, can I just use a balanced line out from the jack to the high-Z guitar jack on the 828 Mk3 ? Or would I need a special guitar lead ?
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Re: Using a Yamaha THR 10....

Postby Yamaha Guitar Development » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:50 am

Hi,

Personally, I think the TLM103 will have the edge, but try both - you should get a good result with one of them. I've heard some stuff recorded with an SM57 and it kind of works, but the character of the THR suits a big diaphragm mic really.

You can use the headphone out as a line out. You'll need a y-cable (std jack insert cable) and you should just go into the line inputs on your interface (the guitar input will have too much gain). The only thing to be aware of when you do this is that it will mute the THR's speakers - so you'll need to monitor it through your regular monitoring setup.

Do you have access to Cubase at all? We just recorded a demo video of recording an entire track with THR and I have a Cubase AI project file that has guitar parts recorded DI and using high-end mics that might be interesting...

Cheers,
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Re: Using a Yamaha THR 10....

Postby newsense » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:46 pm

Yamaha Guitar Development wrote:
You can use the headphone out as a line out. You'll need a y-cable (std jack insert cable) and you should just go into the line inputs on your interface (the guitar input will have too much gain). The only thing to be aware of when you do this is that it will mute the THR's speakers - so you'll need to monitor it through your regular monitoring setup.


I have tried the THRs headphone out as a line out into a number of other amplifiers (using line in, not the instrument inputs), but the sound is degraded by a whistling noise. This was mainly to try to get the excellent THR tones at gigging level. Any clues as to how this can be achieved and the whistling be avoided ?

Thanks
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Re: Using a Yamaha THR 10....

Postby greenm01 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:01 pm

Gone To Lunch wrote:So can I safely presume that I can just mic it up using my small diaphragm condenser, Neumann KM183 ?

Why mic the the THR10 when the signal is already cabinet/mic compensated? The THR10 utilizes full range drivers, and is not similar to a traditional guitar speaker. Why not take the headphone/line output directly into a mixing board, or record direct injection (DI) into a DAW via the USB connector?

I've seen several YouTube videos of the THR10 being miced with an SM57 or e906, although I'm somewhat puzzled by the logic behind this...
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Re: Using a Yamaha THR 10....

Postby CS70 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:14 pm

greenm01 wrote:Why mic the the THR10 when the signal is already cabinet/mic compensated?

What he says. That kind of modeling amps are made for direct recording - so just bring the line out to a mixer and you're set. Otherwise you'd need to disable the cabinet emulation and the mic emulation if there's one..
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Re: Using a Yamaha THR 10....

Postby MH-417 » Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:07 pm

Hi. I used the USB interface from the THR straight to my MAC. Abelton detected it. I got some decent sounds but the latency was pretty bad. I will try and tweek Abelton and Mac settings to see if I can fix the latency. I'm curious to know if anyone has gotten some good recordings in the same fashion but without the latency. Doing overdubs and layering becomes quite hard.

Perhaps I'd be better to split the headphone out of the THR and input into my Focusrite 2i4?

Thoughts?

Thanks.
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Re: Using a Yamaha THR 10....

Postby DaveFry » Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:47 pm

Hi MH-417 ,
I use the THR10 with Cubase and Windows . By adjusting the buffer size in the asio driver control panel down to 64 samples it reports an input latency here of 4.286ms and an output latency of 5.283 ms , which is fine for me .
Hope that helps .
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Re: Using a Yamaha THR 10....

Postby miguelmarcos » Thu May 01, 2014 11:14 am

Better a late response than never.

I pipe my THR-10 into Ableton. Adjusting the buffer size down to 64 samples works on my end. Still I pipe my signal from the THR-10 Phones output through a Behringer UCA222 into my Mac. I know some will consider this a horror but I love the simulations and effects in the THR and that's the cleanest way I've found to get the same signal into Ableton.

I sent Yamaha an email long, long ago requesting they open up the signal via USB so it does not depend on the Steinberg USB driver and non-Cubase users can take advantage of the THR easily (for example, piping the signal into my iPad if I'm on vacation. The THR-10, an ipad and a guitar makes for a nice, portable package). They just came out with an update a while ago, a nice one amp sim-wise, but it's missing universal USB output. Not only that, Yamaha even requires the Steinberg USB driver to be installed in order to update the THR. I think they're missing out on a bigger opportunity and audience out there.
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Re: Using a Yamaha THR 10....

Postby Tokyo Portrait » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:44 am

Coming in very late here (March 2017 now), but it may be of help to anyone stumbling across this old-ish thread looking for ideas or solutions.

It's been asked in this thread, why mic a THR type amp?

Several reasons, which I'll just list below, for brevity (fat chance).

I bought mine for two reasons. First, I wanted a home / practice amp that sounded great and also responded to the player like a (quote/unquote) real amp. Second, and just as important, if not more so, I wanted the same for home studio recording.

The THR completely meets my first need (I went with the standard 'vanilla' 10 model). They sound amazingly great in the flesh, way more so than the various YouTube videos make them sound (except maybe for the vid listed below, which sounds great).*

However, I soon discovered that for my second and very important need, the THR didn't initially quite work out, at least, sonically.** Reasons and some solutions as follows.

Note, these are meant as ideas, not set in stone commandments - it's all ultimately subjective.

1. Direct injection/input (DI) via USB naturally makes you want to use the THR Editor app, but it sucks***
2. Latency - the THR is an audio interface, but I find it quite poor with latency
3. The extended stereo technology through the flat response speakers really does work and sounds astoundingly good, despite the fact that 3cm speakers can't move much air. This doesn't necessarily translate well when recorded DI
4. When DI recorded, the bottom end often sounds a bit, right through to really muddy (ymmv)
5. It just doesn't sound as good when recorded DI - so you can't help being a bit frustrated (it's all subjective remember, so, ymmv)
6. The THRs are designed to sound like a well recorded guitar (or bass) played back over a good stereo, so in theory, capturing that accurately should sound good - i.e. not done the same way as you capture a guitar cab, which by its very nature (whether you know it or not) colours the sound
7. A large diaphragm condenser mic (LDC) with a very flat response, wide dynamic range and able to handle high SPL (sound pressure level) should, in theory, capture the sound fairly accurately (with the amp's extended stereo technology turned off)****
8. Conversely, dynamic mics (like the hallowed SM57, et al.) won't
9. Audio Technica's AT20 series of mics fit the bill here and are very affordable - plus you'd be getting a great budget vocal mic (or try something similar - AKG Perception 220 or Rode NT1 maybe?)
10. Mics can be moved, giving more sonic / tonal variations and possibilities - never underestimate this, it can make a huge difference. This is great, for example, for double tracking where you might want that 'same but different' sound left and right
11. In most recording situations, home studio or otherwise, people are recording vocals, so they'd want a large diaphragm condenser mic anyway. So, everything to be gained by owning one and nothing to lose by trying it
12. Nothing's negating DI anyway, you're still free to DI or mix and match, etc.
13. Finally, you should always experiment, that's how you find out what sounds good to you

Now, the caveat is, all of the above assumes you are, or are working towards, home recording of full songs. Which means you need a mic preamp / phantom power and audio interface for a condenser mic (comes as all in one units these days, with excellent and very affordable options like the Focusrite Scarlet 2nd gen. range, or the Steinberg UR mrk II range, etc.). For those just wanting some aural note-taking of ideas, or to play along as practice, maybe using the THR as audio interface would be okay, if the latency issue works out for you.

Hope this was helpful, or at least provided some extra info along with some of the reasoning behind why you might want to mic a THR.

Oh yeah, what do I do? Mostly mic it close with an LDC & sometimes further away. Sometimes DI, & even sometimes with a dynamic mic - cos, you know, it's just a sound, sometimes useful, even if mostly not. Small condenser mic? Dunno, don’t actually own one.


* Check out the "I think the universe just shifted slightly" look that briefly glistens across Mick’s face during the sequence that starts about 8:25 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De3veyEdTf0
(That Pedal Show - Mick is the guy standing up)
** I love the preset buttons when recording, especially when double tracking - set up the tones you want, along with recording levels, and then record away. Each track's sound then done by simply pushing a button. This makes redoing takes a breeze. No going back and trying to redial both tone and level (be better if there were 6 presets though - would then get different sonic pairings for double tracking of three distinct guitar parts). Save the settings to a recording specific library in the THR Editor as back up (but see below)
*** I have the latest (2016) top end model iMac, with 40gig of RAM. It's a rock and handles anything I throw at it. I can do panoramic Brenizer type stitching in Photoshop with dozens of layers stacked up, and then throw more processing at it and have other processes running  and nothing phases it. Except, trying to use the THR Editor. Yesterday, running the Editor froze my Mac to the point it needed a hard reboot. That's never happened before. To tell the truth, in 2016/17, having to install a driver on a Mac to go between hardware and an app was a red flag - I knew this wasn't going to be so good. Even if it did run well, it would still be cumbersome. Too awkward to load or save patches and libraries - generally counter intuitive in this area. Too many dialogs popping up, some functions don't seem to work, etc. Overall, needs fixing. Especially, ditch the Steinberg driver - Class Compliant anybody!
**** with low volume recording, a LDC will generally give a better representation of the full dynamics of the sound anyway, whatever the source - which also now makes me realise, maybe I should crank the THR to full vol. and try with dynamic mics?
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