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How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

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How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby Ariosto » Tue May 15, 2012 7:31 pm

I was going to try a Voodoo mic by SE as I had heard they were good. This is an active ribbon mic with extended frequency response.

This is one of the few (if any) mics you can try before purchase, (as I've discovered since) but unfortunately they use a totally useless delivery company (Name starts with U). I've had the same problems with this useless delivery company before and now swear I will never use them again. They were going to charge huge prices for delivering on a Saturday so I opted reluctently for Monday morning. Of course they eventually turned up on Tuesday evening so I told then to f*** off.

I've run out of time to test this mic and patience with the useless w****** who run the delivery company.

But since then I've looked at a good company that offer a four year guarantee, but more importantly, a 30 day returns policy if you don't like the goods. EXCEPT they don't include mics on stupid health and w****** safety grounds! We and millions of others travel on the b***** underground system everday in London which is much more of a threat in terms of health and safety than any damned mic.

I don't even want to use this mic with a damned singer, only for piano and strings, so the chances of an infectuous disease are pretty unlikely. Even if they allow amps and pre-amps as 30 day returns, the chances are that someone with aids will have made love over the damned thing are just as likely, so there is no logic in this nanny state, overburdened with these stupid EC rules.

This means I'm unlikely to ever buy a reasonable quality mic as I will not do this without trying it first. What a stupid effing world we live in!

Comments on a suitablty screened post for infectious diseases please!
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Re: How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby shufflebeat » Tue May 15, 2012 7:36 pm

Ariosto wrote:...so there is no logic in this nanny state, overburdened with these stupid EC rules.

You're absolutely right. If you can just post a link to the f****** stupid regulation you're talking about I for one will immediately lobby my MEP about it.
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Re: How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby dmills » Tue May 15, 2012 7:38 pm

Go to a proper dealer (Hint, not the high street, and probably not online), hire whatever you want to test, then buy whichever suits best from the dealer. Odds are good that the dealer will knock the hire cost off whatever you buy if you ask nicely.

Even very shiny mics seldom cost more then £15 or so a day to hire if you have a reasonable relationship with your supplier.
Another option is to simply hire a studio with a decent mic locker for a few hours, job done.

See you the brown U and raise you parcelfarce for the uncanny ability to break anything they touch.

Regards, Dan.
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Re: How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue May 15, 2012 8:14 pm

Ariosto wrote:Comments on a suitablty screened post for infectious diseases please!

Try enrolling on an anger management course?

The difference between amps and preamps is that people tend not to press their lips on them and spit at them. They generally all do that with mics, and no one wants to buy a mic that someone else has spat into immediately after two pints and a chinese takeaway!

Most delivery companies are flakey now and then -- and I have more expeirnce than most. Quite why you'd send then man away when the trial product finally arrives is beyond me, but I'm sure you had your reasons...

You could try hiring popular mics from a decent hire company. Same courier problems, I'm sure, but at least you could try before buying.

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Re: How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby Jack Ruston » Tue May 15, 2012 8:16 pm

Build a relationship with a dealer, and once they know you, they'll get you demo models from either their own stock, or the distributor. I do appreciate that it's hard to get people to send you demo units when they don't know you, but they will once you become a known quantity.

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Re: How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby shufflebeat » Tue May 15, 2012 8:22 pm

Jack Ruston wrote:Build a relationship with a dealer

Always good advice.
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Re: How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby Ariosto » Tue May 15, 2012 8:41 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
Ariosto wrote:Comments on a suitablty screened post for infectious diseases please!

Try enrolling on an anger management course?

The difference between amps and preamps is that people tend not to press their lips on them and spit at them. They generally all do that with mics, and no one wants to buy a mic that someone else has spat into immediately after two pints and a chinese takeaway!

Most delivery companies are flakey now and then -- and I have more expeirnce than most. Quite why you'd send then man away when the trial product finally arrives is beyond me, but I'm sure you had your reasons...

You could try hiring popular mics from a decent hire company. Same courier problems, I'm sure, but at least you could try before buying.

hugh

Yes, I know all the arguments.

To start with I've had the same issues with the lousy delivery company before, they deliver days later than arranged, and I've had to hang around all day and evening waiting for them to arrive. I sent them away because I heard them ring the next door neighbours bell when I refused to answer the door (they were nearly 36 hours late). I had run out of free time to try this mic, as I am now unavailable for several days and the other people who I was going to use to try the mic are now also unavailable. No wonder this lousy country is facing bankrupcy when a potential customer for an £799 mic is treated like this. So we need some bloody politicans to go for anger managemnt - not me. Or maybe the delivery companies and mic manufacurers, not to mention magazine reviewers.

This brings up the whole thing about expensive mics for me. Are they worth the high prices these companies are charging. Is an £800 mic four times better than a £200 mic? I doubt it. How do we know these expensive mics don't cost just a few pounds to produce? The markup could easily be a few thousand percent? How come some mics cost £2,000 and some a lot more. You can argue that they may only sell 5 a month, but if they brought prices down then they might sell 50 or even 500 a month.

I've really given up on this because I won't buy a mic until I've tried it, at least one that costs over £200. I'm interested in the quality and fidelity of the recorded sound. But then I suppose being a musician makes me a person of little importance.
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Re: How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby hollowsun » Tue May 15, 2012 9:23 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:no one wants to buy a mic that someone else has spat into immediately after two pints and a chinese takeaway!
So how do people cope with studio sessions where a mic's been used by maybe hundreds of different people, many of which will no doubt have had colds, coughs, flu and have partaken of far more dubious substances than two pints and a Chinese takeaway. Or a mid winter gig where half the audience and hacking and sneezing and spluttering all over the place. This is the music biz, not the Richard and Judy show!

What next? Sensitive artistes taking Trevor Horn to court because the flushes on the loos at Sarm have a bit of aftersplash on them?
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Re: How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby narcoman » Tue May 15, 2012 9:25 pm

Ariosto wrote:
This brings up the whole thing about expensive mics for me. Are they worth the high prices these companies are charging. Is an £800 mic four times better than a £200 mic? I doubt it. How do we know these expensive mics don't cost just a few pounds to produce? The markup could easily be a few thousand percent? How come some mics cost £2,000 and some a lot more. You can argue that they may only sell 5 a month, but if they brought prices down then they might sell 50 or even 500 a month.

I've really given up on this because I won't buy a mic until I've tried it, at least one that costs over £200. I'm interested in the quality and fidelity of the recorded sound. But then I suppose being a musician makes me a person of little importance.


The high end mics have precision parts and high priced components. The level of engineering to produce the capsules in top end mics is a world apart from the low end "pressed" versions.
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Re: How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby Jack Ruston » Tue May 15, 2012 9:25 pm

The loos at Sarm have aftersplash?

<cancels booking>
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Re: How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby narcoman » Tue May 15, 2012 9:32 pm

Ariosto wrote: No wonder this lousy country is facing bankrupcy when a potential customer for an £799 mic is treated like this. So we need some bloody politicans to go for anger managemnt - not me. Or maybe the delivery companies and mic manufacurers, not to mention magazine reviewers.


First - this is a delivery problem. Whoever decided on the delivery company has made a boo boo - but it is the fault of the delivery company for not providing a cost effective solution for the mic sellers.

Second - SE are not made in the UK but distributed by Sonic and for sale in a couple of shops. There ain't much in it for them on a £800 mic so don't expect the earth; they can't very well give you a special delivery costing them £30 when they're only going to net around £60 anyway.

As it happens the particular mic you're looking at isn't a great vocal mic. I would be looking at a lot of other contenders before using it as a vocal mic, no matter reviewers say. Good on acoustics, good as an overhead (note - good, not great) and a good low mid priced mic to have in your collection as long as you already have a decent condenser. Otherwise - leave it till later. It is not a "do many things" mic at all.

Finally - golden rule; the goal! Getting annoyed with prats and shitty delivery doesn't help you in your goals - trying the mic. Think about the goal and not the irritating numpties you may have to deal with. A polite discussion with the seller may get you more money off because you're being arced around - but remember; NOBODY responds to a demand. Moan sympathetically with the seller ABOUT UPS.
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Re: How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby hollowsun » Tue May 15, 2012 9:43 pm

Jack Ruston wrote:The loos at Sarm have aftersplash?

<cancels booking>
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Re: How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby Ariosto » Tue May 15, 2012 9:44 pm

narcoman wrote:
Ariosto wrote: No wonder this lousy country is facing bankrupcy when a potential customer for an £799 mic is treated like this. So we need some bloody politicans to go for anger managemnt - not me. Or maybe the delivery companies and mic manufacurers, not to mention magazine reviewers.

First - this is a delivery problem. Whoever decided on the delivery company has made a boo boo - but it is the fault of the delivery company for not providing a cost effective solution for the mic sellers.

Second - SE are not made in the UK but distributed by Sonic and for sale in a couple of shops. There ain't much in it for them on a £800 mic so don't expect the earth; they can't very well give you a special delivery costing them £30 when they're only going to net around £60 anyway.

As it happens the particular mic you're looking at isn't a great vocal mic. I would be looking at a lot of other contenders before using it as a vocal mic, no matter reviewers say. Good on acoustics, good as an overhead (note - good, not great) and a good low mid priced mic to have in your collection as long as you already have a decent condenser. Otherwise - leave it till later. It is not a "do many things" mic at all.

Thanks for that narcoman, I respect what you say, and I know you have a lot of expertise in this area.

I realise it is the delivery companies fault, but at the same time the distributors already knew I was a little apprehensive about UPS as I've had nothing but the same trouble with them in the past.

Your comments on the mic are interesting. I've considered it because I would be using it entirely for piano and strings and I've understood that a ribbon mic with an extended frequency response will be good for such use. I've also considered the Audio Technica which is about the same price, and the Green Woodpecker, but they can't be tried first as far as I know, on spec.

I've also considered the Coles which I think is about the same price.

Now I'm totally confused again!! But I will in any case never be recording singers - only classical chamber music.
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Re: How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby Random Guitarist » Tue May 15, 2012 9:57 pm

Wouldn't the distance selling regulations allowing 7 day return trump the made up 'no-slobber' rule?
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Re: How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby narcoman » Tue May 15, 2012 10:13 pm

OP... You based near London?
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Re: How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby MadManDan » Tue May 15, 2012 11:55 pm

Afa deliveries, here in states we have ups and fedex (f**k-ups and fedup) and they're both horrible. Could tell horror stories of how they have ruined work days and social events. Can't help you there.

Afa spit on mics, that's a health code issue. The fact that popular studios pose a serious infection risk will NOT change a store's policy. Honestly I expect to BUY a NEW mic and book out a diseased one. Again, can't help you there either. Sorry.

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Re: How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby hollowsun » Wed May 16, 2012 3:29 am

MadManDan wrote:The fact that popular studios pose a serious infection risk...
Dear God - what a bunch of wet, neurotic, paranoid, pansy Daily Mail health scare readers we've become. What serious infection risk?

The vast majority of virii and bacteria can only survive for, at most, a matter of a few minutes without a host, the sturdier ones maybe a few hours at best. The HIV virus lasts just a few seconds!! There's considerably more risk using an escalator or getting on a bus/train to the studio for your session! Or perhaps you could really take your life in your hands and go to the session on a bike. Good luck with that!

There are ads and claims that our chopping boards and computer keyboards have more germs on them than our toilet seats. Well d'oh ... anti-advert! If that's the case, then this paranoia is unfounded because, for the most part, no-one dies or gets sick preparing food on chopping boards. Seems I'd be better of preparing my veg on the bog seat!

Obviously, making a salad on the same board as you prepared that Vietnamese campylobacter-infected piece of cheap sh!t chicken you bought from Tesco is not a good idea (even though that Vietnamese campylobacter-infected piece of cheap sh!t chicken you bought from Tesco is unlikely to have any adverse effect if cooked thoroughly ... but you'd be better off with a proper, locally sourced free-range bird bought from a local butcher to begin with on various levels - but that's the subject of another thread perhaps).

Seriously, I've not heard so much cock in ages ... mics posing a serious infection risk, being the carriers of pandemic infection? Grow a pair FFS!! Jesus - if you knew some of the dives I've recorded in ... by today's neurotic H&S standards, the mics would have been burnt by people in protective suits and masks, goggles, hi-viz tabards and boots with protective toe caps and the studio closed down ... but no-one died or got ill... in fact, we had a sodding blast!

But maybe we were sturdier then with immune systems that worked because our parents let us play outside, graze our knees, climb and fall from trees, eat mud and worms, keep a slug in our blazer pockets and fiddle with frog spawn ...

One tablespoon of garden soil contains more bacteria and virii than there have been people who have lived on this planet. And we need to ingest this stuff into our immune systems to protect ourselves. It's no coincidence that since we became such namby pamby pansies living artificial, risk averse lives, allergies and intolerances have shot through the roof

But then we didn't have a media that cynically spread unfounded bollocks of all our neighbours being being paedophiles hanging round on every corner to abduct our children so that we lock our kids up in our houses and idiot H&S excesses telling us that just looking at a bar of chocolate will kill us and having a wine gum qualifies us as raving alcoholics in need of rehab!

And now we have killer plague microphones?

'Bad Science', Ben Goldacre - read it to see how this crap is so inaccurately misreported by idiot hacks who don't have the first clue of what they're talking about but write it anyway and who have cynical, unscrupulous editors who can spot a good, sensationalist headline when they see it in order to sell papers to idiots who believe all this arsewash!!

It's just arrant f**kin' nonsense.

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Re: How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby MadManDan » Wed May 16, 2012 3:45 am

Haha. Oh, the internet. I'm sorry I forgot to put my or something to that effect. Truth is, I meant that 'germy studio' part ironically. I really don't worry about germs. Spent the better part of 3 decades in studios without getting sick.
Germs help us build antibodies.
But a germo-phobe could see a studio as a breeding ground for G-d knows what.



Sack already grown thank you.
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Re: How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby Ariosto » Wed May 16, 2012 6:46 am

narcoman wrote:OP... You based near London?
Yes, in North London in fact.
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Re: How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby John Willett » Wed May 16, 2012 7:45 am

Ariosto wrote:
narcoman wrote:OP... You based near London?
Yes, in North London in fact.

Go to KMR and talk to them. Stefan is very helpful (in fact they all are).

They have loads of mics in stock, areas where you can check them out and if you need to try something at home, just ask.

They are in North London, round the corner from Totteridge & Whetstone Tube.

Map HERE (scroll down).
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Re: How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby narcoman » Wed May 16, 2012 8:48 am

yup - defo talk to the guys at KMR, although they don't carry the mic's your looking at, still might be able to help. Also contact Sonic directly?
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Re: How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby Phat Man » Wed May 16, 2012 11:03 am

I've only skimmed this but I do hope you ended up rearranging and tried the Voodoo?

FWIW - The active version is actually pretty much the same as the passive, but with more gain. If you have decent pres wih plenty clean gain, I'd opt for the cheaper passive version.
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Re: How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby hollowsun » Wed May 16, 2012 3:11 pm

MadManDan wrote:Haha. Oh, the internet. I'm sorry I forgot to put my or something to that effect. Truth is, I meant that 'germy studio' part ironically.
Ok - fair enough. An indication that your tongue (*) was in your cheek might have been useful and maybe I am a bit tetchy about this, surrounded as I am by neurotic and paranoid wimmin who believe all the bollox they read and slosh the Domestos around like there's no tomorrow. The cupboard below the kitchen sink here is more plentifully stocked than Porton Down in their 'war on germs' and it's such utter, to use the French word, 'bolleaux'.

I was a little worried though that rumours would spread about mics being a health hazard when it's complete arse!

(*) You do know, of course, that you can now buy toothbrushes with tongue scrapers to rid your mouth of offensive and harmful bacteria (Jesus wept!). Best get one of those before you place your muscular hydrostat in your buccal cavity - you can never be too sure!
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Re: How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby Gary M » Wed May 16, 2012 4:28 pm

Ariosto wrote:
narcoman wrote:OP... You based near London?
Yes, in North London in fact.

There is a two week first impressions scheme on audio technica microphones, KMR should be able to sort it out for you.

Regards

Gary
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Re: How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby Ariosto » Wed May 16, 2012 5:10 pm

Thanks for all of the help and suggestions. I have heard of KMR but couldn't remember where they are based. I will certainly look them up, once I get some free time. That's why I wanted to use the dates 12th 13th and 14th May to try out the mic when I was free and had the help of other musicians. But UPS as usual conspired to wreck this opportunity by trying to deliver the mic at 17:15 on 14th May.

It may be a couple of weeks or more before I manage anything though, but I will eventually update what happened on the forum.
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Re: How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby Rhetro » Wed May 16, 2012 9:08 pm

Hey.

There is a lot of exchange in this post, and I haven't read the full thread. But fearing that this may have been covered already, B&H in NYC have an excellent selection of mics and offer returns/refunds. I was there trying out 414s, U87s, all sorts of stuff.

I had this same concern before I found out about B&H in NYC. I hope it helps. If it doesn't sorry, to bug ya!
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Re: How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby John Willett » Wed May 16, 2012 9:25 pm

Rhetro wrote:Hey.

There is a lot of exchange in this post, and I haven't read the full thread. But fearing that this may have been covered already, B&H in NYC have an excellent selection of mics and offer returns/refunds. I was there trying out 414s, U87s, all sorts of stuff.

I had this same concern before I found out about B&H in NYC. I hope it helps. If it doesn't sorry, to bug ya!

But it's a long way from London

And, as has been said, KMR is the place to go in London.
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Re: How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby Rhetro » Wed May 16, 2012 9:34 pm

Yeah, a long way from Texas as well!

Nice to know that I can at least send it back if I don't like it.
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Re: How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby Ariosto » Thu May 17, 2012 6:36 am

John Willett wrote:
But it's a long way from London

And, as has been said, KMR is the place to go in London.

Hi John

Thanks for your help and information. (And all others too!)

I will try and phone KMR today and have a chat. I'm impressed by their website. I think maybe I need advice too as I'm not sure about going down the "ribbon" road anymore. (They do have ribbon mics though, including the Green Woodpecker). Maybe I just need a good condensor - maybe an omni.

Best regards

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Re: How do you try out a mic? It's just not possible.

Postby John Willett » Thu May 17, 2012 11:06 am

Ariosto wrote:
John Willett wrote:
But it's a long way from London

And, as has been said, KMR is the place to go in London.

Hi John

Thanks for your help and information. (And all others too!)

I will try and phone KMR today and have a chat. I'm impressed by their website. I think maybe I need advice too as I'm not sure about going down the "ribbon" road anymore. (They do have ribbon mics though, including the Green Woodpecker). Maybe I just need a good condensor - maybe an omni.

Best regards

Ariosto

Yes, KMR are very helpful.

Talk to Stefan Pope, he is very good (you can mention my name and said I suggested you go to KMR - it gives me Brownie points )
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