You are here

Which size cymbals are these?

All about the tools and techniques involved in capturing sound, in the studio or on location.

Which size cymbals are these?

Postby Anonymous » Sun May 27, 2012 2:27 pm

Hi guys!

Could someone tell me which cymbals these are? They come in around 1:50secs
Led Zeppelin - Bring it on home

I've heard the track on headphones and the cymbals sound very smooth and hold their space well. There's no hard transient or stick sound, but it still sounds crisp.

Where drums multi - mic'ed in those days?

Thanks
Anonymous

Re: Which size cymbals are these?

Postby Guest » Sun May 27, 2012 3:13 pm

I've just been googling and he used the Paiste cymbals. The one used here were probably the thin 18" and 20".

I'm still interested in the sound production though. There's none of the sound that you get from the stick, just a clean crisp washy sound. Is this part of the technique or is it created by compression, or do the thin type cymbals just sound that way?

Thanks
Guest

Re: Which size cymbals are these?

Postby Frank Rideau » Sun May 27, 2012 4:32 pm

No specific advice to give on processing but if you are focusing on the cymbals, be careful not to make them too loud in the mix. I think that a good starting point for them to sound smooth and holding the proper space is to actually find the right balance (volume) and space (panning) in the mix, not that much more complicated.
Frank Rideau
Regular
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:00 am
http://soundcloud.com/orgasmo-sonore Revisiting Obscure Film Music

Re: Which size cymbals are these?

Postby Beat Poet » Sun May 27, 2012 10:07 pm

Music Manic wrote:I'm still interested in the sound production though. There's none of the sound that you get from the stick, just a clean crisp washy sound. Is this part of the technique or is it created by compression, or do the thin type cymbals just sound that way?


Generally people say that Bonham battered the tubs and was gentle with the cymbals, I imagine that's where the washy sound comes from. Crashes on alot of old 60s and 70s records sound very "easy" to listen to, compared to today where they really do accent the changes.
User avatar
Beat Poet
Regular
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:00 am

Re: Which size cymbals are these?

Postby Gone To Lunch » Sun May 27, 2012 11:13 pm

I seem to remember, from Drummer mags of the period, that he used the acclaimed Paiste Formula 602 cymbals, which were popular with jazzers, especially the legendary Joe Morello (with the Dave Brubeck Quartet, here)

The 602s were sadly discontinued a few years ago, but could be had second hand from ebay for astronomical prices....so much so that Paiste actually re-introduced the range HERE

FWIW, Bonham was a very gifted player, so much of the sound would be in the technique rather than the cymbal per se....
Gone To Lunch
Frequent Poster
Posts: 628
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 11:00 pm
Location: London

Re: Which size cymbals are these?

Postby Gone To Lunch » Sun May 27, 2012 11:28 pm

Just checked with.....and they say he used Paiste 2002s...
Gone To Lunch
Frequent Poster
Posts: 628
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 11:00 pm
Location: London

Re: Which size cymbals are these?

Postby mjfe2 » Mon May 28, 2012 8:06 am

Music Manic wrote:Hi guys!

Could someone tell me which cymbals these are? They come in around 1:50secs
Led Zeppelin - Bring it on home

I've heard the track on headphones and the cymbals sound very smooth and hold their space well. There's no hard transient or stick sound, but it still sounds crisp.

Where drums multi - mic'ed in those days?

Thanks

Glad you asked this question cos I've done a lot of research on Bonzo's sound, and find it to be just perfect in terms of tuning, cymbal and snare choice, miking etc!

On the track you mentioned he was probably using Paiste Giant Beat 18" and 20" crashes. The GBs were Paiste's precursor to their 2002 cymbals, which Bonzo switched to later. They were basically brighter versions of their Formula 602 set, made from B8 rather than B20 bronze so they cut through amplification better. However, by modern standards they're still quite mellow.

As for the hi hats on that track, I'm pretty sure Bonzo stuck with 602 hats (probably 15" sound edge) because GB hats are the only cymbal from the GB set that have disappointed drummers since they got reissued. As for the ride, I don't think the studio version of 'Bring It On Home' features a ride, but Bonzo tended to use the 24" GB ride or sometimes a 22" 602 ride: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm3zUQjG5no

In terms of miking, it probably would have been something minimal, Glyn Johns style: Image
(I realise this photo is a more a presentational shot e.g. the SDC is facing Bonzo rather than the kit, but it still gives some idea of the arrangements they were using when they recorded Led Zeppelin II on the road!) To my ears LZII, along with all the early albums, has a very compressed drum sound -- hence the 'bwooshy' sound of the cymbals. Sometimes they used beyer ribbon mics, and of course everything was recorded to tape, so all of this explains why the cymbals sound so nice and smooth...

Anyway, good luck!
User avatar
mjfe2
Frequent Poster
Posts: 558
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:00 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Which size cymbals are these?

Postby James Perrett » Mon May 28, 2012 8:45 am

That sound is technique - I'd create it by swiping the cymbal with the shoulder of the stick rather than hitting it directly.

You can always tell how good a drummer is by the smoothness of the crashes - beginners always seem to just whack the crash with no finesse.

James.
James Perrett
Moderator
Posts: 5991
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 11:00 pm
Location: The wilds of Hampshire

JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.co.uk


Re: Which size cymbals are these?

Postby Guest » Mon May 28, 2012 2:12 pm

Thanks guys, great stuff!

Love it here!
Guest

Re: Which size cymbals are these?

Postby Stef Andrews » Mon May 28, 2012 10:42 pm

Mmmm, I always find this an interesting discussion - it always seems Bonham that people try to emulate. That said, I'm certainly not suggesting they shouldn't - easily one of the best ever. However I think it certainly matters more as to whom is hitting the drums and metalwork, as to *what* they're hitting IMO. Although, that goes for most drummers in most genres.

But if you haven't got the drumming style etc. down, the kit could be one of Bonzo's own from the 70's - you still won't sound like him.
Stef Andrews
Regular
Posts: 425
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Tunbridge Wells, Kent

Re: Which size cymbals are these?

Postby Gone To Lunch » Tue May 29, 2012 12:07 am

James Perrett wrote:That sound is technique - I'd create it by swiping the cymbal with the shoulder of the stick rather than hitting it directly.

You can always tell how good a drummer is by the smoothness of the crashes - beginners always seem to just whack the crash with no finesse.

James.

+1.

And while we're on the subject....listen carefully to Bonzo's cymbal work after the drums enter in 'Stairway to Heaven', esp they way he gently crashes the ride by using the shoulder (of course he could be riding on a crash, but the technique is the same)...
Gone To Lunch
Frequent Poster
Posts: 628
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 11:00 pm
Location: London


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ConcertinaChap and 5 guests