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Expression pedal

Postby Dee » Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:15 pm

I have plugged a soundking SK18L volume pedal in to my Novation Impulse but I'm not getting any joy assigning CC11 for Mr Sax. Am I being an idiot and this just won't work as I'll need to get a "proper" expression pedal?

Sorry for the potentially daft question!!

Thanks for any advice.
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Re: Expression pedal

Postby BJG145 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:53 pm

Expression pedals are different from volume pedals; they have TRS jacks. There's some discussion of fudging it with certain pedals and cables, but it's probably easier to just buy a real one.

http://www.strymon.net/2011/10/10/strymon-tech-corner-3-volume-pedal-as-an-expression-pedal
http://www.safaricomputers.com/505/expressionPedal.php
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Re: Expression pedal

Postby Dee » Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:55 pm

Thanks mate, I'm having no joy so I'll order one asap.
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Re: Expression pedal

Postby Dee » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:14 pm

I've just ordered the Yamaha FC7 - should do the job perfectly!!
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Re: Expression pedal

Postby BJG145 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:24 pm

Looks like you might have to do a bit of rewiring...

http://www.novationmusic.com/answerbase/en/article.php?id=561
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Re: Expression pedal

Postby Dee » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:24 pm

Back again..........this pedal should work fine with a Novation Impulse controller keyboard?
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Re: Expression pedal

Postby BJG145 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:33 pm

Well, the link above gives Novation's views on it...sounds like the thing is a bit choosy. If it's just a question of rewiring the jack or fixing up an adapter cable it's not a big issue, but just don't necessarily expect it to work straight out of the box, according to Novation's advice.

Comment on Amazon:

I bought M-audio's sustain pedal and Alesis F2 expression pedal. Both of them can work perfectly with Impulse. If you want to use expression pedal for this keyboard, make sure to go to the website of Novation to check out which one is compatible, since not every expression pedal will be fully functional when used with Impulse.
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Re: Expression pedal

Postby Dee » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:34 pm

Thanks for that mate. I suddenly cancelled my order until I looked in to it a wee bit deeper. I'll check with Novation. Cheers.
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Re: Expression pedal

Postby Dee » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:45 pm

Thanks again for your advice mate. I would have ran straight in to ordering one that wouldn't have suited. I just ordered the Moog EP2 so I shouldn't have any problems.
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Re: Expression pedal

Postby BJG145 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:58 pm

(Great, yep, should be just the ticket...)
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Re: Expression pedal

Postby The Elf » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:58 am

The Yamaha pedal is extremely well built - I would go for that one. You can't guarantee that any specific pedal will work out of the box with any keyboard, but flipping a couple of wires around is no big deal.
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Re: Expression pedal

Postby Martin Walker » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:06 am

And if you're unsure what this wire-swapping is all about, you need to have a read of my FAQ on the subject

Here it is, along with plenty of compatibility information on the two main wiring types found in expression pedals:

http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/showf ... ber=322584

Hope you find it useful!


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Re: Expression pedal

Postby zenguitar » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:14 am

Martin Walker wrote:And if you're unsure what this wire-swapping is all about, you need to have a read of my FAQ on the subject

Sorry, you did say wire-swapping?

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Re: Expression pedal

Postby Martin Walker » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:05 pm

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Re: Expression pedal

Postby Dee » Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:22 am

Thanks everyone for the comments.

I ended up getting the recommended Moog expression pedal but........

(I also posted this on the novation website....)

Hi, relatively new to the Impulse so apologies if I'm being remarkably thick!!

I bought the Moog expression pedal after checking recommended models from the novation website. However, I am getting no joy when I have it plugged in. Trying to use it with Sax Brothers VST and it is still saying "connect controller to CC11" - also trying to control volume in Efimov guitar........nada.

I have changed from basicmidi to usefulmidi in the hope that would kick things in to life but still no joy.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks
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Re: Expression pedal

Postby BJG145 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:06 am

So you have the Novation plugged into a PC...? Might be worth loading up the free MIDI utility MidiOx just to check that the keyboard is transmitting expression info. Expression and volume are different parameters, so using an expression pedal with a Kontakt instrument on default settings won't control the volume. (Maybe you could post up a link to the other thread so we can keep an eye on it.)
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Re: Expression pedal

Postby Dee » Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:24 pm

BJG145 wrote:So you have the Novation plugged into a PC...? Might be worth loading up the free MIDI utility MidiOx just to check that the keyboard is transmitting expression info. Expression and volume are different parameters, so using an expression pedal with a Kontakt instrument on default settings won't control the volume. (Maybe you could post up a link to the other thread so we can keep an eye on it.)

Thanks for replying mate. Here is the link to the novation site - no replies as yet..... http://forum.novationmusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=116163

Just downloaded and installed midiox. When I press keys, pitchbend, mod or sustain I am getting activity but nothing when I press the expression pedal. I'm officially confuddled!!
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Re: Expression pedal

Postby BJG145 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:43 pm

It seems that if you press the "Controls" button and adjust a control, the Impulse should display info about that control, its assignments, etc (page 19 of the manual)

http://d19ulaff0trnck.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/downloads/3993/impulse-user-guide.pdf

Can you get this to work with the thing's controls...? And if you try it with the expression pedal, does it register...? Maybe it needs to be configured somehow, but it's not particularly obvious how...(it's definitely plugged into the right socket, right...?!)
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Re: Expression pedal

Postby Dee » Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:16 pm

yeah have it connected OK but have been trying the control setup but nothing.

Once you press control it says "movectrl" - if you use mod wheel or pitch bend etc., it recognises it but neither pedal (sustain or expression) has any sign of life. Obviously, sustain is working fine though and has done since I plugged my pedal in when first getting the keyboard.

I really thought this would just be a case of plugging the expression pedal in and it working
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Re: Expression pedal

Postby BJG145 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:38 pm

...yeah...I'm stumped!

Novation have a how-to explaining the expression pedal on the X-Station, which makes me think it might not be blindingly obvious, but I can't find anything on the Impulse.

http://www.novationmusic.com/answerbase/en/article.php?id=298
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Re: Expression pedal

Postby The Elf » Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:04 pm

You need to try all combinations of connections to prove it's not simply the pedal wired wrongly for the input.

A spare stereo jack lead and a couple of crocodile clips should let you check it out - that's how I typically set my expression pedals up first time.

What I then do is create a stereo socket=>plug adaptor cable that crosses the wiring to where I need it and label it up 'FC7 to K2600', or such. This way I can leave the internals of the pedal as they came out of the factory. I have several pedals around the studio all connected through adaptor cables like this, so I can swap them around at will.
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Re: Expression pedal

Postby Dee » Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:12 pm

BJG - yeah, I'm thinking you win a prize if you get this working!!

Elf - I really appreciate your post but I struggle to make beans and toast and wouldn't have a clue
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Re: Expression pedal

Postby BJG145 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:15 pm

The Elf wrote:You need to try all combinations of connections to prove it's not simply the pedal wired wrongly for the input.

The Moog EP2 should really work straight out of the box. It's recommended without any caveats on Novation's website...

http://www.novationmusic.com/answerbase/en/article.php?id=56...

...and the review in keyboard magazine confirms that: "The Impulse has the usual jacks for sustain and expression pedals, with the latter defaulting to expression (CC 11). I connected a Moog FS-1 momentary switch and a Moog EP-2 expression pedal, both of which worked without a hitch."

http://www.keyboardmag.com/article/novation-impulse-61/14788...

I can only think that:

a) Either the keyboard or the pedal is faulty, which seems unlikely
b) The keyboard needs a factory reset, possibly worth a firmware update if available
c) Configuration isn't as simple as it should be. (Are you using this Automap thing...?)

Time to hit reset methinks.

Please follow the procedure below to perform a factory reset on the Impulse.
1) Hold down the 'shift', '+' and '-' buttons then connect the USB cable to the Impulse.
2) You will now be in the boot menu. 'Exit' should be displayed on the LCD screen. Press the '+' button three times.
3) 'Fac Rst' should now be displayed on the screen. Push the 'Data' encoder three times.


Firmware updates are done via Automap.

http://www.novationmusic.com/answerbase/en/article.php?id=741
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Re: Expression pedal

Postby Bob Moose » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:17 pm

Dee wrote:Once you press control it says "movectrl" - if you use mod wheel or pitch bend etc., it recognises it but neither pedal (sustain or expression) has any sign of life. Obviously, sustain is working fine though and has done since I plugged my pedal in when first getting the keyboard


Sorry if this is too obvious, but did you set up the expression pedal input to "CC" or "control change" and control number to "11" on the Novation itself?

I have the old Novation Remote 25, and if I remember correctly the expression pedal input was not even active by default

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Re: Expression pedal

Postby kinglouis » Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:11 am

I bought Mr Sax and The Trumpet a few years ago and reeeally struggled to make the programmes work, just kept getting a 'CC11 expression pedal not found' notice - the guys here were very helpful with the expression-pedal woes, but have you contacted Sample Modelling? They were great too. Best of luck.
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Re: Expression pedal

Postby Dee » Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:04 pm

Thanks again everyone for all the suggestions and comments.

I haven't been too well this past few days but will hopefully try and get this sorted again tonight. Frustrating doesn't do it justice!!
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Re: Expression pedal

Postby Dee » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:39 pm

Hi everyone, just a quick update.......I'm still stumped

I have contacted Novation support and they will get back to me - but it looks like it'll be after the New Year now, which is obviously understandable considering I don't expect anyone to answer my expression pedal query in between copious amounts of turkey and beer

Still very frustrating that I can't get to the bottom of this though
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