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Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

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Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby Ben » Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:46 pm

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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby Rockrooms » Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:52 pm

Just seen this to, though the website seems to up as normal, still seems unbelievable, very very sad as I've always had good service from them and the folk were fairly knowledgeable and helpful.

- Joe -
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby Tomadvent » Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:53 pm

This should be a headline feature please SOS - the websites are still working - and it will save people much angst if they don't place orders now.

No surprise that the supermarket approach to music retailing did not work for Sound Control - poor product range and staff knowledge etc - and Turnkey have been in turmoil for about 18 months.

Hopefully this will convince people that there is no future in turning music sales in leisure retailing - and focus everyone back on the real music shops.

Over 100+ jobs however have gone - many of whom will be working musicians as well which is very sad and worrying for all involved and their families.
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby crofter » Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:54 pm

That's coffin chasing in the extreme, Dolphin should be ashamed.
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby Steve Hill » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:04 pm

crofter wrote:That's coffin chasing in the extreme, Dolphin should be ashamed.

That's business! And being slightly pedantic, but it is relevant, Sound Control are legally obliged to disclose the fact of the administration, and give the administrators' names and addresses, on their website from the moment of appointment.

OK, it's day one, and it take a little time to make these things happen... but I can also say with 100% confidence that if you place an order today (and if the goods are available) the administrators - not the previous management - will honour it. Or they will give you your money back. There's no way a company like Deloitte wants to be accused of defrauding customers in these situations. They've spent 200 years building up a reputation for honesty and trustworthiness, and they only need to trash it once.
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby Parker Fly » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:07 pm

Steve Hill wrote:
crofter wrote:That's business! And being slightly pedantic, but it is relevant, Sound Control are legally obliged to disclose the fact of the administration, and give the administrators' names and addresses, on their website from the moment of appointment.

Their web-site is a different legal entity, that aspect of their business was kept quite separate from Most Modern.
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby hogberto » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:11 pm

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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby Steve Hill » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:14 pm

Well it's the directors' choice if they want to henceforth trade with unlimited personal liability contrary to sections 216 and 217 of the Insolvency Act 1986 by muddying the waters as to which entity anyone is dealing with. I'm sure it will count enormously in their favour when the administrators file their reports on directors' conduct under the Company Directors Disqualification Act.
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby Tomadvent » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:16 pm

What ever the legal ins-and outs of the separate operations under the same name (do any of us have any real idea how the different operations are linked to each other?) - simple common sense (given how bad their respective customer services are/were) would suggest to me that this is NOT a good time to place an order at any of the sites. They may technically be legally and financially seperate but it is hard to believe that the staff will be focusing on the job in hand.
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby philetaylor » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:23 pm

Hi.

Does anybody know which stores have closed and which are staying open?

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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby Monobass » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:29 pm

It's not a good situation for the employees.

On the other hand, at a personal level over 15 years I've found everyone I had to deal with at Turnkey to either be rude or clueless.

Pretty opportunistic response from Dolphin... but I've never had a bad experience with Dolphin's direct customer service, maybe they learnt their lessons from their own experiences as customers at Turnkey... although to be fair Dolphins website is pretty useless... i just ring them up.

The people I feel sorry for are those small companies whose products were distributed exclusively through Turnkey in the UK like Dave Smith Instruments. I picked up a Prophet Module from Turnkey recently because I had no other choice as to where to buy it from. I even considered buying it direct from Dave Smith to avoid Turnkey, but they recommended I used Turnkey for various reasons.

Turnkey won't be missed, lets hope the decent products find another home.
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby nathanscribe » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:29 pm

SC only just opened a big new store in Leeds, where I've spent more time than I should have mucking around on their P08...

Intriguingly, Turnkey were the sole UK importers of DSI and Moog, or so I heard. Wonder who'd take that mantle on now? And what that will do to the prices...

EDIT: whoops, Monobass just mentioned this while i was typing. Still, I agree - although i have to say there was one extremely helpful guy at SC leeds who was never less than brilliant. Sorry to see them go. There's nowhere else convenient for me to try stuff out before I buy it.
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby forumuser695516 » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:30 pm

Surprised it didnt happen years ago to be honest. Rarely had good service out of Turnkey, and they had enough time to get their act together.
Roll on the clear out sale!

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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby Parker Fly » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:34 pm

Steve Hill wrote:Well it's the directors' choice if they want to henceforth trade with unlimited personal liability contrary to sections 216 and 217 of the Insolvency Act 1986 by muddying the waters as to which entity anyone is dealing with. I'm sure it will count enormously in their favour when the administrators file their reports on directors' conduct under the Company Directors Disqualification Act.

It wouldn't be unreasonable for a wholly separate company to make use of a trading style, i.e. a franchisee, and legally the franchisee would not be liable for the debts of the parent company save for those duly noted in their contract. It is also quite acceptable for a franchisee to be partly or wholly connected to the franchise in terms of those involved.
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby Monobass » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:36 pm

nathanscribe wrote:whoops, Monobass just mentioned this while i was typing. Still, I agree - although i have to say there was one extremely helpful guy at SC leeds who was never less than brilliant. Sorry to see them go. There's nowhere else convenient for me to try stuff out before I buy it.

Yeah I guess I should have pointed out i'm only talking about Turnkey in London.
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby Seaforth » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:39 pm

Regarding Dophin - well, why shouldn't they be opportunistic? It isn't going to do the newly unemployed any good if they say nothing about it for a respectful period. It's a business opportunity, they're a business.

I've bought from them quite a few times and they've always been very good. I hope that they don't try to take too much on and go downhill but that said- good luck to them.

I'm interested to know what the poster above found so poor about their website - I've never had a problem with it, including finding specific gauges of guitar string for a matter of pence, right up to the stuff costing hundreds or thousands. Never had anything coming in as in stock when it wasn't etc etc.

Only visited Turnkey once - a thoroughly miserable and depressing experience.

Just thought I'd get my oar in.

Over and out.
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby Parker Fly » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:40 pm

Tomadvent wrote:(do any of us have any real idea how the different operations are linked to each other?)

A tenner spent at Companies House will go some way to making things clearer.
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby oggyb » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:41 pm

Monobass wrote:
nathanscribe wrote:whoops, Monobass just mentioned this while i was typing. Still, I agree - although i have to say there was one extremely helpful guy at SC leeds who was never less than brilliant. Sorry to see them go. There's nowhere else convenient for me to try stuff out before I buy it.

Yeah I guess I should have pointed out i'm only talking about Turnkey in London.

Are we certain the Leeds branches are closing? That will be a shame, if so.

There was one guy at kirkstall who commented on my skill with the roland V-Synth GT tone pad when we were last round there. I blushed. :blush:
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby Monobass » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:44 pm

Seaforth wrote:I'm interested to know what the poster above found so poor about their website - I've never had a problem with it, including finding specific gauges of guitar string for a matter of pence, right up to the stuff costing hundreds or thousands. Never had anything coming in as in stock when it wasn't etc etc.

Certain items just don't turn up in searches even when you enter very specific terms (on products which you can still access via browsing).

Mention it to Dolphin on the phone and they are very frank about the problems they have... I get the impression their system just can't handle the amount of products they carry.
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby Steve Hill » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:48 pm

Something resembling an official press release from www.creditman.biz...

Sound Control Group appoints adminstrators

Apr 30 2008
John Reid and Bill Dawson of Deloitte, the business advisory firm, have been appointed Administrators of Sound Control Holdings Limited (“Holdings”) and certain of its subsidiaries (“the Group”) following applications to the courts by the Group’s Directors.

The Group operates from 26 stores across the UK, under the brand names Sound Control, Media Tools, Turnkey and Soho Sound House, and is the largest musical instrument retailer in the UK. It has a turnover of £50m and 338 employees nationwide.

The Group has been impacted by increased competition from the internet and the directors had been pursuing a strategy to sell the business. This did not prove successful and accordingly they sought the appointment of John Reid and Bill Dawson as Administrators.

John Reid said: “Following a review of the Group’s operations the Administrators have today made the difficult decision to close 10 of the Group’s trading locations and bring to an end its telesales and internet sales activities. These changes to the Group’s operations have resulted in 163 redundancies with immediate effect.

“The Administrators welcome interest in the business and assets of the Group and are already in discussions with a number of interested parties to explore a possible sale.

“However, at the same time as they explore sale options, the Administrator will continue to trade the remaining 16 stores, selling high quality musical instruments to the public.”

The Group's head office is based in Dunfermline and has various trading locations throughout the UK."


Note the reference to the administrators' decision to terminate internet operations with immediate effect.
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby Seaforth » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:51 pm

Monobass wrote:
Seaforth wrote:... I get the impression their system just can't handle the amount of products they carry.

Oh, that's a shame. Perhaps I've just been lucky so far then. Sounds like they're already suffering from a touch of "aagghh - it's all going too fast" - itis then. Let's hope they manage to keep their feet on the ground through all this disruption.
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby Tomadvent » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:53 pm

My keyboard playing accountant tells me that it wouldn't "necessarily" because with the same basic directors, and uncertainty what security has been offered to fund the huge Bank of Scotland loan - even apparently solvent sub=companies could be taken down.

So in a recent group of local building companies it was companies a and b which went into administration - and subsequently clear that the premises owned by company c had been used as bank security by the shared directors so company c went as well.

As it is according to the Company information it is the Holdings company (ie the group company) which has gone into liquidation.

In terms of purchases unless you are in the shop and get the product then I would be cautious about placing an order on line.
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby philetaylor » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:11 pm

As I have a companies house direct account I just had a look and their latest filed accounts are only up to April 2006 and show a 2M loss for that year and 1.1M the year before.

As of then, the group comprised of:

Sound Control Modern Music Stores Limited
Media Tools Holding Limited
Greenwood Leisure Limited (formerlly Academy of Sound and Carlsbro Sound Centres (Derby/Leicester) Ltd.

As their accounts are overdue there isn't much newer information, one interesting thing is that 3 directors resigned on 09/02/08, Raymond Miller and Alan Gavin who both held 45000 shares. Also Grahame Burgess who was their chartered management accountant and holder of 22143 shares resigned.

Cheers

Phil
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby Imran500 » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:17 pm

A bit sad but I had mixed experiences with them. One time they advertised a piece of software, took money from me and then failed to inform me it was discontinued.

Another time (I reported on this board) they told me the Rode NTK was in stock, my brother went to collect it, when he arrived they told him it was discontinued (incorrectly as it turns out).

Another recent experience - phoned up about the Line 6 Gearbox Silver, they said it was in stock, I asked them to double check (knowing what they're like) and lo and behold it wasn't. Phoned up Digital Village and it was in my hands the next day.

On the other hand some staff have gone out of their way to be really helpful and given some great advice.

The last time I went in there was to get a Rode NT2000 - I noticed the back area where all the synths and monitors were was all ripped out and I thought it was to refurbish the place.

I'd say overall due to their bad service they've probably lost about £500 of my business over the years - not a massively efficient operation in my experience.
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby desmond » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:30 pm

It's a shame - every time I went into Sound Control in London the people I dealt with were helpful, intelligent, fairly clued up, and nice chaps.

As for Turnkey, they never lived up to the service they gave when they were Soho Soundhouse in Soho Square (they were excellent back then) and I always found going into Turnkey a rather depressing experience...

But it's bad news for the industry as a whole.
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby Brian Moynihan » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:35 pm

Its a shame I know a few guys who work there. I'm not surprised though, you can only go so long selling nothing but Behringer and Roland before people stop shopping there.
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby hogberto » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:40 pm

the last time i tried ordering something online it turned out of course that the item wasn't in stock. this was a few months ago.

the guy on the phone apologetically explained that the website couldn't display what was in stock but that they were working on a new one which would.

in the meantime i guess the world simply went off to use websites elsewhere...
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby Tímo » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:41 pm

Must have a knock-on effect on SoS somewhat, due to the hole created regard advertising revenue? Turnkey were always big (literally) on many-multiple-page-pullouts and stuff. =/
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby SecretSam » Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:34 pm

Steve

"There's no way a company like Deloitte wants to be accused of defrauding customers in these situations. They've spent 200 years building up a reputation for honesty and trustworthiness, and they only need to trash it once."

I have two words for you:

"Arthur"

and

"Andersen"

:-)
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration...

Postby nathanscribe » Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:37 pm

oggyb wrote:Are we certain the Leeds branches are closing? That will be a shame, if so.

I'm over there tomorrow so I can find out. I think the only other place round here is Dolphin's Huddersfield shop, but it's a bit far out. Other than that it's what, Sheffield? I hope they can sort this out, retain a core of usefully spread retail outlets and improve their ordering system.

Seems odd they'd remove the online ordering though, I'd have though that would a cheap way of selling.
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