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Creat ADAT 4 from 2 digital sources

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Creat ADAT 4 from 2 digital sources

Postby BarneyStinson » Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:12 am

Hey!
Easy question: I have 2 sources with digital RCA out (2*1=stereo). I want to join them to one ADAT 4 signal (4 channels). What can I use with 48/16 or 96/24?

I think the RME Fireface 400 can do it but it is too expensive for only that task..

Thanks
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Re: Creat ADAT 4 from 2 digital sources

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:45 pm

That's not an easy problem to solve, I'm afraid.

For starters, S/PDIF and ADAT use different data structures, so the S/PDIF signals need to be decoded to standard PCM then re-encoded into ADAT.

Secondly, the two S/PDIF data streams need to be synchronous so that their can be stitched together into the new ADAT data stream, which means accurate clocking of the sources and the 'stitcher'.

So... assuming that you have the means to synchronise the two S/PDIF sources to the same clock (or can route them through synchronised sample rate converters), you will then need an interface or digital mixer with two S/PDIF inputs and an ADAT output, with the ability to route and combine the data streams as you require.

Most of the larger interfaces and many digital mixers will be able to do this, but I can't think of anything cheap and cheerful.

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Re: Creat ADAT 4 from 2 digital sources

Postby Dave B » Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:41 pm

You'd need to keep an eye on the s/h market, but I think that you are looking for a unit similar to the Alesis AI-4.

Although that use AES/EBU rather than sp/dif, but I think that the formats are compatible (just some cable trickery iirc). And the AI4 would spit out a single ADAT stream.
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Re: Creat ADAT 4 from 2 digital sources

Postby chris... » Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:09 pm

I would want to know what's actually to be achieved, as it's quite likely the problem can be avoided altogether via some alternate plan.
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Re: Creat ADAT 4 from 2 digital sources

Postby BarneyStinson » Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:42 pm

Thanks for the answers so far.

Well it is already enough to convert one (stereo) SPDIF RCA source to ADAT 4 toslink.

I want to do this with my Prism Lyra 2 to imrove the sound quality:

Image
(lindy box cannot convert into ADAT 4/8)

Note:
-up to 96/24 output
-I would prefer a solution without computer.

So what can I use as a converter?
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Re: Creat ADAT 4 from 2 digital sources

Postby chris... » Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:20 pm

Plug the analog out from each CD player straight into the mixer. Job done. It'll sound great.

If you recon there's improvements to be made using posh DA convertors instead of the DA convertors built into the CD players, then you probably want two separate posh DA convertors, each of which you plug into the mixer. But there's unlikely to be any practical improvement. I wouldn't bother.

Sorry if I've read this totally wrong.
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Re: Creat ADAT 4 from 2 digital sources

Postby BarneyStinson » Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:29 pm

Plug the analog out from each CD player straight into the mixer. Job done. It'll sound great.

I own a pair of CDJ1000 and I tested the digital out of one with the Lyra and the Rane mixer. I can already listen to improvements through the cheap headphone outs.. Trust me the Pioneer DACs (at least the 1000 series) are not what you expect from the number one standard in clubs worldwide.. a lot of people will tell you this.

So question still unanswered
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Re: Creat ADAT 4 from 2 digital sources

Postby chris... » Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:33 pm

BarneyStinson wrote: I tested the digital out of one with the Lyra and the Rane mixer. I can already listen to improvements through the cheap headphone outs.
Right, but will this difference be noticed by the punters in the club ?

If so, then as I said, I suspect you want two posh DACs.
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Re: Creat ADAT 4 from 2 digital sources

Postby BarneyStinson » Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:36 pm

It is only for my home setup so I do not want to invest another 2000€.. I am so close to have it, just one more converter

What about? http://www.inday.com/da4x/da4x.htm

500€ max for the converter
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Re: Creat ADAT 4 from 2 digital sources

Postby chris... » Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:45 pm

BarneyStinson wrote:What about?http://www.inday.com/da4x/da4x.htm

On quick browse, pretty sure that's just a switcher, so one input at a time, only. It can switch either S/PDIF or ADAT, but I don't think it converts one to the other.

I may be missing something here, but can you explain what "96/24" capability would bring to the party, given the CD source which is presumably 44/16 ?

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Re: Creat ADAT 4 from 2 digital sources

Postby BarneyStinson » Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:51 pm

The Pioneer DVJ1000 supports up to 96/24 DVDs.

http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/archive/DVJ-1000/page.htm...

The Pioneer CDJ2000 (NXS) can read 48/24 aiff files from USB/DVD/CD/ethernet source

Yeah this is a fetish.
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Re: Creat ADAT 4 from 2 digital sources

Postby chris... » Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:43 pm

So what stops you doing what's in the diagram you posted ?

Can the lyra use both digital inputs (1x coax S/PDIF and 1x optical S/PDIF) at the same time ? Can it do SRC for them ? Or not, in which case, can the CDJ things be externally clocked ?
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Re: Creat ADAT 4 from 2 digital sources

Postby BarneyStinson » Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:03 am

The Lyra 2 can only convert one SPDIF source at a time. So the other spdif source needs to be converted into ADAT4 or ADAT8. The Lindy box can only convert SPDIF electrical to SPDIF optical.
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Re: Creat ADAT 4 from 2 digital sources

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:28 am

The basic problem here is that the Lyra really isn't the right tool for this job, and in order to generate an ADAT signal for the Lyra to decode, you're going to have to spend a lot more money than you really want.

The critical aspect is that to combine the two (or more) signals into a single ADAT stream, they have to be synchronous. There aer only two ways to achieve that:

1. External clocking -- those Pioneer decks appear to have an external video sync input, so you could synchronise them if you had a video master clock (which won't be cheap!).

I've also assumed that the video sync input clocks the digital audio out as well as the video out -- but you'd need to check before buying!

2. Pass the unsynchronised signals through sample rate converters to achieve the synchronisation externally.

Most decent modern digital consoles have built-in SRCs on the digital inputs (often called asynchronous digital inputs), but you are unlikely to find multiple S/PDIF inputs on budget desks.

Another option would be to invest in a dedicated format converter, such as the RME ADI-192 DD. This is an eight-channel device that converts between all the usual digital formats, and has SRCs on the inputs to achieve synchronisation from unsynchronised sources. It is a professional product, so it expects AES3 rather than S/PDIF, but you can convert between the two with a simple bodge cable if the cable lengths are short. it also accepts sample rates up to 192kHz.

However, it will set you back the best part of £1000

http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_adi_192_dd.php

As I said earlier, there is no cheap and easy solution here...

Assuming you need the two CD player signals to remain separate through to the analogue mixer, and the real issue is that the Pioneer on-board converters don't sound great, then it would be cheaper and easier just to invest in two outboard D-A converters and ignore the Lyra altogether.

There are hundreds of simple stereo DACs on the market, intended or the hifi market, many of which deliver excellent results, and could be purchased within your budget. Such as the Musical Fidelity V90:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Musical-Fidelity-Digital-Analogue-Converter/dp/B00DNZMZTI/ref=sr_1_9?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1389607260&sr=1-9&keywords=dac

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Re: Creat ADAT 4 from 2 digital sources

Postby BarneyStinson » Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:10 pm

I have to mention that the Lyra is able to use the RCA Spdif and Toslink ADAT at the same time, so you have in fact up to 10 digital input channels for it (if the support told me that right in the email).

So I probably only need one DD converter with SRC. Stand alone solutions under 400€ are: RME Adi-2, Adi-4 DD, Fireface 400 can be a solution. I also asked this in RME forum:
http://www.rme-audio.de/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=92862#p92862


http://www.rme-audio.de/products_adi_4_dd.php

http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_adi_4_dd.php

http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_fireface_400.php

What do you think about the Nuendo 8DD = RME Adi-8 DD?

It is over 10 years old but the manual says:
4 x XLR, trafosymmetriert, galvanisch getrennt, nach AES3 1992
SPDIF kompatibel (IEC 60958)


http://www.rme-audio.de/old/download/adi8dd_d.pdf

Can I use it? It seems to be the cheapest solution to buy a used old interface..

What about clock signal. Do I have to connect the RME interface/converter with a BNC cable?

So many questions haha
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Re: Creat ADAT 4 from 2 digital sources

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:23 am

The adi-8 has the necessary SRC functionality, similar to the current adi-192.

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Re: Creat ADAT 4 from 2 digital sources

Postby Chevytraveller » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:19 am

Surely the cheapest and easiest option here would be to buy 2x decent quality DACs for the decks and use those to improve your sound quality?..
Then you won't have any faffing around with reclocking and encoding into ADAT streams which just sounds like a massive SPF(Single Point of Failure) waiting to happen

Just my 2p


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Re: Creat ADAT 4 from 2 digital sources

Postby BarneyStinson » Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:27 am

Thanks Hugh Robhjons

Yes but what is a single DAC that can compare with Prism DACs..

I already own the Lyra 2. So I will use it for DAC conversion + recording the "dj mix" from the Rane mixer. Yes this is crazy
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Re: Creat ADAT 4 from 2 digital sources

Postby BarneyStinson » Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:22 pm

Ok I just bought a RME ADI-8DD on ebay. Now I am confused with this AES to SPDIF converter:

Image

I think I have to solder this myelf? Or does anybody know a supplier for this

So I connect the 2 Pioneer CDJ1000 to the ADI-8DD and then go with TOSLINK to the LYRA (ADAT). Right?
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