You are here

anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

All about the tools and techniques involved in capturing sound, in the studio or on location.

anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby Joe_caithness » Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:36 pm

hmmm...

this is a ponder as much as a point, but the amount of snobbery against people just showing an interest in a formal way about something we (should atleast if were buying SOS!) love.

why is it that whenever music technology education is mentioned people are ready to start the witch hunt, or atleast post a snide comment?

OK I realise that it is NOT the way to start a business, does NOT mean anyone will give you a job

but it does mean that people are inspired enough by our area to learn it full time (or part time if that suits them) and that is a good thing in my eyes.

I speak as a 21 year old aspiring engineer, who is currently using his skills in therapeautic education, who went to Confetti in Nottingham, and although didn't learn everything, learned a damn slight more than if I "just got some work experience"

I understand there is NOTHING as good as just doing it. But the ones who just do it, and also learned the science of studio equipment and techniques, are gonna have a damn slight more advantage over the 5956849568495674568746 people who bought a 4 track, recorded one band, then left it in the shed, or hassled some studios into letting them make tea but never got showed how upwards expansion can be used as a subtle alternative to RMS compression on a mix bus.
Joe_caithness
Regular
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:00 pm

Re: anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby The Red Bladder » Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:18 pm

The only reason I get on my soapbox over some types of education, is because too many kids are being told that there is a possible career out there for them in recording studios.

The likes of SAE and other 'schools' have become remarkably successful, selling an unrealistic dream at inflated prices.

They are cheating young people and denying them a future career at the same time and that is despicable IMO.

They (and some accredited universities!) continue to do this with other subjects, such as TV and similar fashionable media fields, selling a complete pipe-dream that you can become a journalist, DVD tech, cameraman, 3D CGI tech, etc., etc., by just attending a few short courses and paying vast amounts of money.

I certainly do not blame the young for being naive - that is all part of the gig of being young! But I do expect parents, career teachers and employees of accredited colleges to be wise to the facts and not to lie to the young.
The Red Bladder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1880
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: . . .

 


Re: anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby narcoman » Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:33 pm

Me and Blads vary in our opinions on many things - but in this one important area we are united. Along with many others here.

Joe - the reason we all seem so against it is because of the money grabbing. It costs a lot, you learn FAR more DOING it (and yes - i know all about Confetti, - my brother went there (a waste of time!) and I know the team that set it up very well). For one thing - the knowledge from courses such as those mentioned is WOEFULLY inadequate in a real world (but rare) studio situation. I have a couple of assistants on freelance basis here - they need to able to problem solve electrical issues practically on a daily basis. Not to mention IT stuff - thankfully less since we went 100% MAC a month ago!!

It is grossly unfair to take advantage of young peoples naivety - yes, sorry to be blunt - but young people are easy to lead up the garden path (so are some older folk!). If we tell you you are talented and you have a great future if you just put £20K into your education - you believe us. Personally I think as professionals and older types we have a responsibility to balance the set up. There are hundreds of courses yay-saying all giving great vibes about how great the course is, the amazing facilities and how you can learn to be the best. What they forget to mention is there are - NO JOBS. This matters. Education is NOT for fun. At 20 years old you (quite rightly - i did) want to have a laugh and pursue something you love.

What you don't realise at that age is that wasting your time at 18-25 is a HUGE mistake. You set yourself down a path. Doing a music tech course is a huge, nay, MASSIVE waste of time. I am currently lobbying a couple of governmental types to limit the number of places on courses such as this. There needs to be limits. Currently there are 1000's of "graduates" every year in the UK alone. They're all being taught stuff you could learn from reading a Cubase manual - for big money. Its a scam. There is no other way to put it.

I've seen - first hand- what passes as "mic' technique" in the course you mention. It is NOT something you can learn in a classroom. You need mentoring. Added to that - we just do not need he number of "engineer types" we have at the moment. Not now and not for a long time. These numbers need capping.

Trying to re-dress the "balance" when the balance is already tipped heavily in the favour of the music tech money spinning colleges is definitely something that doesn't need doing. Look at the bigger picture before defending the indefensible.

200 and something - the number of CVs and/or work requests I've had this year.
600+ : the number of CDs I've had from acts wanting placing on media product.

Doesn't this tell you something? You should see what Abbey Road gets!!
narcoman
Frequent Poster
Posts: 3439
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 11:00 pm
Battenburg to the power of 20 - said by Richie Royale in a moment of genius. 4pm. Wed 16th Nov 2011. Remember where you were....

Re: anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby dmills » Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:59 pm

Just to add to this, there is nothing inherently wrong with offering a music technology (or technological music) course, as long as it is not sold on an unrealistic premise.

The problem is that rather then offer these short courses as part of a continuing education curriculum (Which IMHO would be legitimate), they are offered as a route into an industry.

I also find the (from what I have seen) general lack of academic rigour troubling as it tends to mean that extrapolating to other jobs works poorly at best, because in most cases the underlying theory is not sufficiently emphasised. There are exceptions, I am talking about the 'trade schools' here, not the serious degrees.

The rather alarming emphasis on shiny kit and high end software is also a little worrying as IMHO for any given 90 percent of the industry whatever shiny you learned is totally irrelevant. Very few people make their money with an SSL J these days, and they are mostly the guys fixing the ones at the recording schools.... By and large the same thing goes for any particular software tool or workflow, learn the principles and a wide variety of practise, not just protools.

The reality is that even in my game (Theatre sound, among other things), I get a steady stream of CVs and work experience requests, what I am looking for is demonstrated interest in the field, attention to detail (Your computer has a spell checker, use it on the application letter), engineering know how (can you solder, can you hack the math) and can you play an instrument at any grade(a good indication of musical chops). Having done a recording course is not on my list of desirables, having done a pile of audio work in your own time is (And for the cost of that course you can buy a recording chain far better then anything the beetles used and some books and a whole pile of media, record bands, record nature, record room tone, record your kids, your parents, your grandparents, mix live, mix theatre, remix, mix classical, mix film, there are loads of opportunities to play for no money, take them)!

You will likely learn far more, and build a better CV then one that just says attended such and such recording school.

Regards, Dan.
dmills
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1544
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: High Wycombe, UK

Audiophiles use phono leads because they are unbalanced people!


Re: anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby narcoman » Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:30 pm

yup.

My least favourite sentence : "I have a passion for music".... I read that EVERYWHERE. What it means to me is "I wanna work in your place and use the studio downtime to do my music" - not what I want to hear. On the occasions I want people here - I want people who are ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY interested in the technical side of things. I don't want a producer wannabe!!

moving on....
narcoman
Frequent Poster
Posts: 3439
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 11:00 pm
Battenburg to the power of 20 - said by Richie Royale in a moment of genius. 4pm. Wed 16th Nov 2011. Remember where you were....

Re: anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby Fastlane » Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:48 pm

Interestingly enough - the same barriers exist for many people with "tech school" diplomas in other fields, as well.

For instance - it's all well and good for you to get a certificate for programming in "pascal" - which many people did in the early 90's and were employable at the time.

However, when the industry shifted directions, the "tech school" people either had to completely retrain, or hopefully rely on some work experience that broadened their horizons.

The truth of the matter is that learning how to use a flavour of software (recording or otherwise) does not a career make.

That's not to say that there aren't tech schools out there that teach a proper foundation in skills, problem solving, creativity, etc. What the folks here seem to be saying is that those programs are few and far between. And - the idea that a grad of even a great program is going to be magically employable by "the man" is rubbish.

I think the biggest complaint from the "old guard" is the fact that music tech school grads seem inevitably convinced they are going to get a "job" out of it. I mean that in the traditional sense - where you work for an employer who pays you a salary/wage. Can a great engineer and/or talented artist carve a spot in the market for their skills? Undoubtedly yes. But it seems almost always as a result of their out-of-tech-school skills (i.e. business, marketing, etc). And the hard work. The old guard you refer to knows that a free ride doesn't exist and rightfully tries to point that fact out to the less experienced.

Just my 2 cents - which are probably worth less than 2.

Lane
Fastlane
Poster
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:00 pm

Re: anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby JC LA » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:06 pm

I have had the pleasure of working with both people who have had music tech education and also with people who just went the tea boy route.

And to be honest, it was all good!

maybe i got lucky, i dont know.

I guess, for me it comes down to the fact that some people are not easy to work with and others are.

whether you are succesful, i think has little to do with having/not having music tech education.

its like the stories about people who have parents who were alcoholic:

1 child says "they were, so then I will be too"

the other child says:

"they were alcoholic and so im not going to touch a drop"

its completely down to how you see things.
User avatar
JC LA
Poster
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:00 pm

Re: anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby Rockrooms » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:10 pm

Joe_caithness wrote:hmmm...
or hassled some studios into letting them make tea but never got showed how upwards expansion can be used as a subtle alternative to RMS compression on a mix bus.

But therein lies the rub. Frankly I couldn't give a toss about upward expansion or RMS compression on a mix bus and nor could most (well actually all) of my clients. Making a good cup of tea and getting them ready to give a fantastic performance that is going to sound great so they are happy to pay up, want to come back and will recommend the studio to all and sundry is what matters.

Perhaps one of the reasons the old guard get a bit irked by all the music tech courses is the lack of business reality and that pointing this out seems to constantly fall on deaf ears. It's the music business we're in. The one does not survive without the other.

From a personal point of view, there are massive gaps in my music tech knowledge, but the ones in my business knowledge are the ones that need filling first.

It's the Witch, not the wand, to nick a quote from Insider Audio.

- Joe -
Rockrooms Studio
User avatar
Rockrooms
Regular
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:00 am

Re: anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby dmills » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:30 pm

narcoman wrote:I want people who are ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY interested in the technical side of things. I don't want a producer wannabe!!
moving on....

Oh god, YES!

You get them in theatre as well, but I think they are worse, they tend to be wannabe authors or directors...

Guess who is mysteriously absent at 3AM during the load out (When you want the inexperienced cassies to push boxes to the truck)?

For some reason I have found that classically trained dancers sometimes make very good techs (You have to teach the board operation and the like but they seem to tend to have the mindset for it).

Regards, Dan.
dmills
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1544
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: High Wycombe, UK

Audiophiles use phono leads because they are unbalanced people!


Re: anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby narcoman » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:30 pm

JC LA wrote:I have had the pleasure of working with both people who have had music tech education and also with people who just went the tea boy route.

And to be honest, it was all good!

maybe i got lucky, i dont know.

I guess, for me it comes down to the fact that some people are not easy to work with and others are.

whether you are succesful, i think has little to do with having/not having music tech education.

its like the stories about people who have parents who were alcoholic:

1 child says "they were, so then I will be too"

the other child says:

"they were alcoholic and so im not going to touch a drop"

its completely down to how you see things.

the quality of the people isn't really the issue. It's the ruddy QUANTITY. 4000 grads a year chasing 10 or 20 jobs. That's it. There are something like 50,000 music tech grads in the UK alone. No where NEAR anything like that figure of total employment.
narcoman
Frequent Poster
Posts: 3439
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 11:00 pm
Battenburg to the power of 20 - said by Richie Royale in a moment of genius. 4pm. Wed 16th Nov 2011. Remember where you were....

Re: anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby Neil C » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:36 pm

narcoman wrote: Doing a music tech course is a huge, nay, MASSIVE waste of time. I am currently lobbying a couple of governmental types to limit the number of places on courses such as this.


I don't know of any higher education subjects where numbers are capped according to likely future employment demand. Certainly would be an interesting picture if that were the case across all subjects - massive upheaval it would be.
People are entitled to aim to study what they like, although they should go into it fully cognisant of the facts.
If a course provider makes a false promise or claim than that is a behaviour independant of subject, it is bad/maybe immoral/maybe illegal practice that should be dealt with. Same with standards of tuition where public money is involved.
User avatar
Neil C
Regular
Posts: 483
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2003 11:00 pm

Re: anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby narcoman » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:40 pm

Neil C wrote:
narcoman wrote: Doing a music tech course is a huge, nay, MASSIVE waste of time. I am currently lobbying a couple of governmental types to limit the number of places on courses such as this.

I don't know of any higher education subjects where numbers are capped according to likely future employment demand. Certainly would be an interesting picture if that were the case across all subjects - massive upheaval it would be.
People are entitled to aim to study what they like.
If a course provider makes a false promise or claim than that is a behaviour independant of subject, it is bad/maybe immoral/maybe illegal practice that should be dealt with.

Absolutely. No subjects are capped yet. I'm of the opinion that perhaps they should be. There should be limited places - which was more the way when education in universities where nationalised.... THIS is the problem with privatized Unis and colleges. Profit comes first, rather than the REAL interests of the young....
narcoman
Frequent Poster
Posts: 3439
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 11:00 pm
Battenburg to the power of 20 - said by Richie Royale in a moment of genius. 4pm. Wed 16th Nov 2011. Remember where you were....

Re: anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby hollowsun » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:40 pm

Rockrooms wrote:Making a good cup of tea and getting them ready to give a fantastic performance that is going to sound great so they are happy to pay up, want to come back and will recommend the studio to all and sundry is what matters.
Agreed. To my knowledge, THAT aspect is not taught and in many circumstances, that is often more important to the job (and keeping it and getting asked back) than anything else. You can be a f'king genius but if you're an objectionable, arrogant, opinionated twat, people won't want to work with you even if you can deliver the goods (the worst scenario being if you're an objectionable, arrogant, opinionated twat and CAN'T deliver - a gobby shite merchant in other words. Sadly, far too many of those around!).

You are there to keep your client(s) happy. It should be a given that you can do that at a technical level - the 'social' side, however, is another matter and you must be as skilled in that as much as anything else ... sorting out a stroppy guitarist or producer in a studio, working towards avoiding the prima donna lead vocalist storming off stage at a live gig you're mixing, reacting favourably to delivery time on a project when the project manager brings the deadline two weeks forward and so on ... and handling those situations as diplomatically as possible.

Rockrooms wrote:Perhaps one of the reasons the old guard get a bit irked by all the music tech courses is the lack of business reality and that pointing this out seems to constantly fall on deaf ears.
Yup. I don't know how many threads we've had of this nature here but still they crop up with alarming regularity. And almost every time someone asks for honest opinions from experienced people on the matter, they invariably don't want to hear them when they get them ... and then invariably the claim that the old farts are protecting their jobs follows swiftly afterwards.
User avatar
hollowsun
Frequent Poster
Posts: 2122
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:00 am

Re: anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby A Non O Miss » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:43 pm

They should first take an Economics course and learn the basics of supply and demand.
A Non O Miss
Regular
Posts: 321
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:00 am

Re: anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby Steve Hill » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:12 pm

I don't mind people (who after all pay some fees for it these days) taking a year or so out to learn something about as useless as Ancient Greek or Latin.

I do mind so-called educators making false claims about how they have all these industry contacts which will help you get a job, because that's just bollocks. (Somebody will now pipe up and say he got a job. Well good. Now let's talk about the other 4,999).

Some courses also make dubious claims about how much hands-on time you get with the toys, and fail to mention that there are 30 people queuing up for every spare bit of downtime. Some courses are equipped, if that's not too strong a word for it, with ageing, well-dodgy gear. I've got a graduate from a very highly esteemed course with me right now who claims that devoting an entire term to midi was the biggest waste of a few months of his life he could possibly imagine. I could go on.
User avatar
Steve Hill
Frequent Poster
Posts: 3266
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 12:00 am

Re: anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby narcoman » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:13 pm

A Non O' Miss wrote:They should first take an Economics course and learn the basics of supply and demand.

hah!

Perhaps that says it all! nice.
narcoman
Frequent Poster
Posts: 3439
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 11:00 pm
Battenburg to the power of 20 - said by Richie Royale in a moment of genius. 4pm. Wed 16th Nov 2011. Remember where you were....

Re: anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby creepy_man » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:24 pm

The thing is now that all you people here are going to be out of a job anyway.

With a recession audio engineers are not really that useful.

As for everything else on this thread. Who cares.

In my opinion all the people on this thread should not be engineers/producers/muscians allowed to talk about music.


They only dilute and confuse the public away from the real talents like geroge martin or some one we know.

Not like the nobody knob twidlers on this thread. Who at best produce untalented 4 chord bands and think they know something worth sharing.

Go play with your train set nerds...
creepy_man
Poster
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:00 pm

Re: anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby A Non O Miss » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:31 pm

The thing is now that all you people here are going to be out of a job anyway.

With a recession audio engineers are not really that useful.


Actually history has proven music sales to increase when the economy is in a recession.


In my opinion all the people on this thread should not be engineers/producers/muscians allowed to talk about music.


They only dilute and confuse the public away from the real talents like geroge martin or some one we know.

Not like the nobody knob twidlers on this thread. Who at best produce untalented 4 chord bands and think they know something worth sharing.

Go play with your train set nerds...


??? 9 posts here. Well I see you know it all and have spent considerable time seeing a multitude of posts by all these users. Funny enough, *not including* myself, most of the others posting in this thread are who I would consider to be the smartest on this forum and most worthy of posting good material. The people you actually should listen to. Maybe take some time, look around more, get to know them in an anonymous way, and then pass judgment.
A Non O Miss
Regular
Posts: 321
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:00 am

Re: anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby Steve Hill » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:46 pm

Creepyman

This trainspotting nerd is a moderator, and you signed up to a set of forum rules in which you undertook to refrain from personal abuse.

We can have intelligent discussions and honest disagreements without resorting to personal abuse. Some of us can, anyway.

Consider this a formal warning. Any repetition and you will be banned without further notice.

P.S. the "train set" using my studio as I type is a band with over 30 albums in their discography. I venture the wholly immodest opinion that they and I have earned the right to tell you where to go.
User avatar
Steve Hill
Frequent Poster
Posts: 3266
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 12:00 am

Re: anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby Jon Con » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:10 am

i think in alot of cases you may find that going to university that some of the places may have spent alot money on marketing the course to get you through the door. You can often then find that throughout the year you speak to peers who find themselves saying "the course isn't what I'd imagine it would be".

Providing you have a realistic understanding of how the industry is shaped I don't think there is any problem going down this route, just make the best use of your time and get as much experience along the way. Some of my friends are about to start the third year of their uni course in engineering and haven't had chance to access the studios yet because all the available booking slots always get prioritised to 3rd year students for their final projects and they haven't got enough space to cater for all their students. In the last year I've found myself recording more people working a full time job than some of my friends have had at uni and learning as much just from buying as many books as I can lay my hands on the different subjects. I've found I've also learnt more from being in a band and paying for studio time to work with different producers.

of all the people I know who went to uni to do a production course, the only person who I could say has been a success and has stood head and shoulders above the others was a guy who started recording when he was 15, featured in studio SOS about 7/8 years ago and has recently been tied up recording Funeral for a friends new album. He went to Glamorgan and left after something like a month because he realised he didn't really need to be the course and was starting to get himself in a position to make money from his studio full time and this was about 5 years ago. He started when most bands weren't recording their own demos but he's survived because he very good at what he does.

It can be great for some people but I wouldn't say it's snobbery from the likes of Narcoman or RedBladder, I imagine it would be more of a case of experiencing the situation first hand

all the best anyways man
Jon

*edited slightly because of bad grammar
Jon Con
Poster
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 12:00 am

Re: anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby narcoman » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:20 am

creepy_man wrote:The thing is now that all you people here are going to be out of a job anyway.

With a recession audio engineers are not really that useful.

As for everything else on this thread. Who cares.

In my opinion all the people on this thread should not be engineers/producers/muscians allowed to talk about music.


They only dilute and confuse the public away from the real talents like geroge martin or some one we know.

Not like the nobody knob twidlers on this thread. Who at best produce untalented 4 chord bands and think they know something worth sharing.

Go play with your train set nerds...

How's over 100million sales grab ya?

How about none of these guys help you out with your other thread on sorting out your sample library. Cannot stand the rudeness slowly finding its way from GS to here. Nip it in the bud.

Go for it Mods. Ban him.... sod the warnings....
narcoman
Frequent Poster
Posts: 3439
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 11:00 pm
Battenburg to the power of 20 - said by Richie Royale in a moment of genius. 4pm. Wed 16th Nov 2011. Remember where you were....

Re: anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby TurboD » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:26 am

While I understand where many of you are coming from with education establishments duping money out of naive youngsters, PLEASE can we have a stop to the abuse that the youngsters get thrown themselves? If you have a problem with the establishment, fight the establishment - not the innocent ones who are merely eager and being pushed into University by their parents (not to mention the government). They may require some direction, as we all do at points in our lives; however I'm sure at the times when you yourselves were there you didn't appreciate tirades of sarcasm.

I think that few parents these days would actually feel happy at the prospect of their children saying "actually Mum, I don't want to go to University. I want to go and wedge myself into a grubby studio where I can work for free and make tea for years on end." And lest we forget, some of these institutes can actually teach people things. Heaven forbid.

Yes, I am one of the ones that got a job.
User avatar
TurboD
Regular
Posts: 161
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:00 pm

Re: anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby Handlestash » Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:48 am

As cited above it's the unrealistic prospects that some of these colleges are selling that gets my goat aroused (HUH?)

Try and find the pulse recording college advert on line for a good current example.
User avatar
Handlestash
Frequent Poster
Posts: 682
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:00 am
Location: Ireland

Re: anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby narcoman » Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:10 am

TurboD wrote:While I understand where many of you are coming from with education establishments duping money out of naive youngsters, PLEASE can we have a stop to the abuse that the youngsters get thrown themselves? If you have a problem with the establishment, fight the establishment - not the innocent ones who are merely eager and being pushed into University by their parents (not to mention the government). They may require some direction, as we all do at points in our lives; however I'm sure at the times when you yourselves were there you didn't appreciate tirades of sarcasm.

I think that few parents these days would actually feel happy at the prospect of their children saying "actually Mum, I don't want to go to University. I want to go and wedge myself into a grubby studio where I can work for free and make tea for years on end." And lest we forget, some of these institutes can actually teach people things. Heaven forbid.

Yes, I am one of the ones that got a job.

where is the abuse at the youngsters themselves? It's ALWAYS the music tech colleges we have a go at - it's the "youngsters" we're al trying to protect. And very lucky you....
narcoman
Frequent Poster
Posts: 3439
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 11:00 pm
Battenburg to the power of 20 - said by Richie Royale in a moment of genius. 4pm. Wed 16th Nov 2011. Remember where you were....

Re: anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby Zukan » Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:34 am

Don't worry HS.

Dude's been banned anyway.

May the thread continue.
Image
User avatar
Zukan
Moderator
Posts: 6211
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 11:00 pm

Samplecraze   Stretch That Note Masterclasses


Re: anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby hollowsun » Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:46 am

Zukan wrote:Don't worry HS.

Dude's been banned anyway.
I deleted my post - couldn't be arsed in rising to his bait ... dunno why I did to be honest!

Banned you say, Zuke? Oh dear - does that mean we also won't be able to read about the 'raw power' he has in the forthcoming SOS interview with him? Shame - I was interested to see how big his train set was!
User avatar
hollowsun
Frequent Poster
Posts: 2122
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:00 am

Re: anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby Zukan » Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:55 am

I too await with bated breath................
User avatar
Zukan
Moderator
Posts: 6211
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 11:00 pm

Samplecraze   Stretch That Note Masterclasses


Re: anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby narcoman » Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:03 am

Zukan wrote:Don't worry HS.

Dude's been banned anyway.

May the thread continue.
Image

Like the yoda....
narcoman
Frequent Poster
Posts: 3439
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 11:00 pm
Battenburg to the power of 20 - said by Richie Royale in a moment of genius. 4pm. Wed 16th Nov 2011. Remember where you were....

Re: anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby thomomatic » Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:23 am

How does one become a "sound engineer"? (whatever that means...)
If, nowdays the big studios don't exist and therefore don't hire teaboys/ tape ops, then how a youngster will learn the basics? Working for 2-3 years for free making tea, isn't it roughly equivalent with studying a diploma for lets say 9 months? (in terms of "wasting time" or money or both) In which 9 moths, you'll get to use studios as well as record artists?
There is music and sound for films and adverts and tv (post pro)
there is a thriving live music scene, at least here in london.
there is theatre sound
there is radio
and there is studio work
and education (you can become a lecturer/ technician whatever in one of those establishments, or even better, in studios of music universities.)
sales of music technology equipment?
broadcast engineering?
aren't those valid career paths? how can we say there aren't any jobs out there? Of course there are, but no one will hand them out to you, you got to go, as with any other mother****in' job in the world, and chase it. Plus, you start anyway/ anywhere from the bottom. No one will offer you a position as the general manager of Abbey road studios at the age of 21. Thats where experience comes in. Thats what you gain while you are working. After you get some basic knowledge from education in a relative background. The issue is how fast you'll rise. and its entirely up to the individuals.
Plus some of us we haven't got the luck to own big barns and have loads of space to set up our own free studio with no rent costs/ need soundproofing etc.
From those 6000 graduates of various music tech courses a year how many really know what they want to do? 2000? how many are really talented?200? Yes there are 185 jobs per year out there for those 200 i bet. sure its not 6000 jobs, but not all 6000 want to do that. they learn from their mistakes.
Times and people evolve. its not better or worse than it was before for people that like sound. Thats what i think anyway. Oh, you need contacts and people and this is people skills that you can't teach... and some people have it some not! (certainly not this rude creep_man guy on this thread)
regards
t
thomomatic
Regular
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:00 am

Re: anti music tech education = old gaurd mindstate?

Postby molecular » Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:40 am

In my limited experience of being a recording artist in a studio environment (the making of one album and a couple of singles), nothing was more valuable to me and the rest of the band than having, on the other side of the glass, an affable character who never stressed out and thought what we were recording was worth doing.

Next, when we said we wanted to spend two hours recording the earth hum from an old synth through a Sherman, they said 'that sounds fun', and not 'f*** off you audio-retards'

Next, they could fix things with soldering irons, which saved them money and earned our respect in an odd way.

I'm sure that somewhere down the line they were involved with millisec.-accurate release times on their upward expanders, but if they didn't have the above qualities in spades, I wouldn't have given a s**t.

And while I'm here - why do the people who use these threads as an opportunity to blurt out insults always always have abysmal grammar?

What happened to good old fashioned, devastatingly constructed, 'Raffles the gentleman thug' style ravaging wit?
User avatar
molecular
Frequent Poster
Posts: 972
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 12:00 am
Location: The turn off where the main road goes over the river. If you're at the post box you've gone too far.

Anto mo Ninja, Watashi mo Ninja
http://www.hectormacinnes.com


Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests