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Some metal for your consideration

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Some metal for your consideration

Postby DaleSmith » Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:24 am

http://soundcloud.com/dale_a_smith/serpents-rise

Hey. please have a listen. Id appreciate any feedback regarding the mix and the general balance of the sound. ( I've mixed it on headphones so crank it up on your monitors / hifi and report back)

Many thanks in advance..

Dale

:D
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Re: Some metal for your consideration

Postby Mowens800 » Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:04 am

Too much bass guitar and the vocals aren't loud / clear enough, you need to make some more space for them. Those are the two main things that stand out to me.
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Re: Some metal for your consideration

Postby ProximityProduction » Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:26 am

Mowens800 wrote: vocals aren't loud / clear enough, you need to make some more space for them.

I cant comment too much on this as i'm listening to it on my tiny mbp speakers and it really isn't my genre but the sung vocals don't seem to gel, they sound like they're not part of the mix. could be the fact that i'm still led in bed but yea thats all i can hear on my shitty speakers - apart from that it sounds good :)

all the best :)
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Re: Some metal for your consideration

Postby Soundseed » Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:34 pm

I agree with previous posters about the vocal mix.

Song wise, it just doesn't cut it for me, its relentless in a kinda pointless fashion. Outside of the transition from the intro, there is no ebb or flow, build or release of tension. Musically it has THE EFFECT OF WRITING IN CAPITAL LETTERS WITHOUT PUNCTUATION IN CAPITAL LETTERS WITH NO PUNCTUATION WITH NO PUNCTUATION IN CAPITAL LETTERS VERY QUICKLY YOU REALISE THERE IS NOTHING MORE TO HEAR AND NOTHING OF WORTH IS BEING SAID AND IF IT IS ITS BEING DROWNED OUT IN THE OVER CRUSHED NOISE WHICH EXHIBITS LITTLE IF ANYTHING OF NOTE OR INTEREST

Cheers
Chris
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Re: Some metal for your consideration

Postby Agonic Art » Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:24 pm

Ok ... I'm posting not because I'm considering myself an expert ... but mainly because I love METAL.

Well I do agree that, at least, the clean vocal should use more space in the mix ... a little bit more wide maybe. I would not comment on the composition, but

I liked it! Good work so far! Best of luck, Raul.
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Re: Some metal for your consideration

Postby DaleSmith » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:09 pm

Thanks guys.

I have no control over the structure of the song, as its not mine. It is fairly relentless, but I kinda like that about it.

I agree about the vocal. I often struggle to fit vocals into dense mixes, but im gunna re-visit the mix after leaving it for a week or so and have a bit of a tweek.

thanks again. I'll post a remix in a few days.

Dale

:D
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Re: Some metal for your consideration

Postby Soundseed » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:34 am

Its really simple ;... just turn the vocal up so that you can clearly hear what is being sung. Don't worry about the rest. Nobody hums the rhythm guitar part.

A useful tip I picked up in SOS a while back. Listen from outside the room you're mixing in.

Cheers
Chris
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Re: Some metal for your consideration

Postby DaleSmith » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:51 pm

Im walking a bit of a tight rope because the guy ( singer/guitarist/drummer) isn't confident about the vocals, so wanted them a bit lower in the mix.

I've bussed them to a delay and pitch shift to widen the vocal, turned them up and upped the distortion a little so they sit much better now.

I'll post the track again in a few days

thanks again guys

:D
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Re: Some metal for your consideration

Postby Johnny Guitar Man » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:40 am


I like a bit of metal, and I quite liked this- reminded me of a cross between machine head and slipknot. The guitar riffing is good.

The mix isn't too bad, but to be honest that is not the problem with the track. First of all the intro at 32 seconds is far to long and boring. The non gruff vocals are a bit weak sounding, but the worst part of the track is the drums- please, please record a real drummer to do those parts, it sounds far too machine like and as a result the guitars sound a bit disjointed and musically are just sitting uneasily on top. It does currently not sound like a band which is what it needs to sound like. Also, I echo the above comments about lack of dynamics, just a few seconds of a bridge where the intensity of the track drops, some elements dropping out and thinning for a few seconds to give some real dynamics would help the impact of the heavy sections a lot. Contrast some light with shade!

At the moment the knob is glued to 11 all the way through and that lessens the impact.
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Re: Some metal for your consideration

Postby DaleSmith » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:00 am

Hey.
thanks for listening. The issue regarding the drums is a problem. The guys is a very good drummer himself, but he wants to do vocals / guitar in this project, and cannot find a good enought drummer to play the parts. The main reason for the recording is to try and get some interest in the band locally and try to get someone to complete the line up. following that the idea is to record a full album ( as the songs are already done ) using proper drums.

Regarding the dynamics, full on / in your face is the request. I have brickwalled it heavily for the purpose of this listening test, and will be a little more sympathetic when it comes to the final mix.

many thanks again for your posts. its going to be a few days until I can get a remix of the track online, as my connection speed is way to slow

best regards you guys

Dale
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Re: Some metal for your consideration

Postby Johnny Guitar Man » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:52 am

It is not just the mix dynamics that are the problem. The band need to change the musical arrangement so you have quieter sections to give dynamics. Even the most extreme metal bands such as Deicide have sections in their songs where only one guitar is playing a note based riff and the rest of the band punctuate this with stabs and accents before going full on again. Your track is full on the whole time with no musical punctuation.

Listen to Dead By dawn by Deicide- they have punctuated sections, and even brief stops and changes in instrumentation, all thiss is lacking in your recorded track, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVKy2Va7Ds0&feature=related

The problem is in the arrangement and production not the mix!
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Re: Some metal for your consideration

Postby DaleSmith » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:36 pm

I get your point mate, but like I said, they're very happy with the songs. The tune I posted wasn't a great example as its full on throughout. The other 4 tunes on the ep all have at least one stripped down section, or verses where the instrumentation is simplified.

best regards.

Dale

ps. I'll check out the Deicide track when I get chance.

:D
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Re: Some metal for your consideration

Postby DaleSmith » Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:51 am

http://soundcloud.com/dale_a_smith/serpents-riseb

Ok. sorry for the delay. I've not really had much time to work on it, but it's got more balls now. Vocals a little higher.

please have a listen and get back to me

best regards

Dale
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Re: Some metal for your consideration

Postby Keefey boy » Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:56 pm

Hi, Not sure if its what you or the band wanted but there is no separation of any kind. Also mixing with you cans is just no good. Your ear ole's become toast very quickly so your not able to judge properly.
There is a lack of depth to the mix. Everything is very middly. Not enough bass, not enough top and to much of everything.
The vocals still sound flat. I appreciate if the guy doesn't want to hear himself but then whats the point in singing it in the first place.

Your job is to try as best you can to make him sound fantastic but you know the old proverb about not being able to polish things.

Get your self some monitors. Try a pair of Spirit absolute 2's or something in that price range. If you haven't got any kind of acoustic treatment in the room listen to it from another room. Its not perfect but at least you will be able to judge more whether the bass is cooking or not.

Cheers,
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Re: Some metal for your consideration

Postby onesecondglance » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:45 pm

you're gonna need to re-record the non-death vox. he just needs to give it more welly. that's a technical term, you know.

having been the vocalist in a heavy rock band a few years back i can hear him making all the same mistakes i did when first in the studio - it's like he's afraid of hearing his own voice. usually means he's hearing too much of himself through the monitors and / or there's not enough monitor reverb. turn up his band mix so it's gig volume, turn him down (it's not like there are tuning issues to be had with this material), and rile him up. make him angry. make him really hate you. make him want to storm out and then tell him if he does without laying down one good take he's an emo pussy. possibly make sure you've locked the control room beforehand. just in case he's, like, big. or hairy.

seriously, metal vocals are all about conviction and i'm just not getting that from him. if re-recording's not an option, try some artificial double tracking and / or play around with adding some distortion.

through laptop speakers the mix is ok. the bass drum is a little "splatty"; i think it could do with losing a bit in the upper mid range, but like i said, i'm not at my main system so frequency or balance judgements aren't going to be that accurate.

i'm not a fan of the song, but i understand that's not under your control. like the others said, i reckon it needs some light and shade, but if they like it that's fine.

hope this helps!
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Re: Some metal for your consideration

Postby colin s » Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:03 am

Johnny Guitar Man wrote:
The non gruff vocals are a bit weak sounding


i def agree with this - its like all nasty with attitude - which is well cool - then with the non gruff stuff it sounds like something form a 80s computer driving game demo - just too nice and sounds too middle classed - you maybe need to get rid of this or get a diffrent voice in

cool track though and its nearly their

well done!
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Re: Some metal for your consideration

Postby The Elf » Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:29 am

With a lot of metal the drums are often replaced, re-timed and programmed anyway, so having a good drummer for the album is not so important as long as someone can sufficiently think like a drummer to program convincing parts.

With programmed kick and snare (and maybe hats), this might be enough to allow a half-decent player to add toms and cymbals to create more of a live feel. You can always amend the programmed parts to pick up any cues in the live parts, such as kick/tom interaction, kick/cymbal stabs and the like. Rather than simply solving a problem, this approach can get you some excellent results.

And I have to disagree about mixing in headphones. I do it all the time, for metal and most other genres. It works as long as you know your phones and do a final check one something that moves air for your bass balance. By choice I wouldn’t mix any other way.
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Re: Some metal for your consideration

Postby DaleSmith » Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:23 pm

Thanks for all the replies you guys.....

Re the clean vocals..

This is a tough one because altho they do still sound a bit flat ( which maybe down to being over processed or not processed enough ) they arnt really being sung, its closer to a spoken part. but I do fully agree with the need for conviction and aggression generally in that department..

Re the mix in general

I does sound cluttered in parts, but there is very little to lose, other than when the 2 guitars are playing the same part. I'll try to re-eq the guitars so they're not fighting for space so much. I kinda thought the bottom and of the mix was about right ( kick and bass guitar ) after listening on my hifi, but i'll be happy to be advised otherwise.

as far as mixing on headphoes goes. I've being doing it for a while now, but never with this much going on. ( i've been doing mostly folk acoustic / female vox etc etc ). And i've just got some new cans ( beyerdynamic dt880pro )which im getting used to. I have no option regarding this, but I'm happy to continue because its worked for me in the past, and I know many people do it very succesfully.

thanks again, i'll update if I get another mix done in the next fewdays
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Re: Some metal for your consideration

Postby The Elf » Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:59 pm

Good luck with it. In metal, the high-pass filter is your best friend!
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