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Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

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Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby timoc » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:24 pm

Any thoughts? Finding it hard to buy a single Avantone here in Belgium-they only come in pairs.
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Re: Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby SafeandSound Mastering » Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:42 am

You have to hand it to Behringer, wherever there is a good idea they will take it an run, mind boggling really.

I think based on the Behringer price and knowing they will be being made for almost nothing I would buy Avantones personally. The Behritones seem over priced give the "pedigree" of B products.

I makes me wonder how different a single 5inch driver in a cubic box can sound by different manufacturers.

There is a SOS article in there somewhere!

Maybe it could be titled: Cue the Cubes.

You need to listen to them to know really.

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Re: Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby Exalted Wombat » Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:13 am

Are these a new breed of cube speaker which are not only small and crappy so as to emulate a beatbox, but also reassuringly expensive? I'm sure they'll sell like hot cakes :-)
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Re: Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby johnny h » Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:38 am

Exalted Wombat wrote:Are these a new breed of cube speaker which are not only small and crappy so as to emulate a beatbox, but also reassuringly expensive? I'm sure they'll sell like hot cakes :-)
Its not about being 'crappy'.

Non ported speakers have better time domain accuracy and can make it easier to judge mix levels, particularly in the mid range.
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Re: Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby Freuman » Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:03 pm

I don't understand the UK pricing. In Europe they are priced properly and you can buy a single Behritone C5A for €89, rather than £230 a pair that we'd pay here.



They look interesting though and I can't see too many flaws in the design (it's just copied from a product that was cheap to manufacture but had the magic label), I shall wait to hear them though, Behringer are usually aweful at making speakers.

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Re: Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby FreQnic » Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:13 pm

The only way Behringer could balls this up is if they managed to make them sound too good.

Ironic? Definitely.
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Re: Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby James Perrett » Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:05 pm

Exalted Wombat wrote:Are these a new breed of cube speaker which are not only small and crappy so as to emulate a beatbox, but also reassuringly expensive? I'm sure they'll sell like hot cakes :-)

No - they're all copies of an old concept which predates even NS10's. Find out more at

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun02/a ... nitors.asp

and

http://singledriver.blogspot.com/2007/06/auratone-5c.html

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Re: Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby Kayvon » Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:51 pm

FreQnic wrote:The only way Behringer could balls this up is if they managed to make them sound too good.

Ironic? Definitely.

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Re: Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby timoc » Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:52 pm

Is anyone using these yet?
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Re: Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby Mike Senior » Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:52 am

timoc wrote:Is anyone using these yet?


The last I heard, they were scheduled to ship at the end of September. I for one will be getting hold of them as soon as I can to put them up against my Avantone Mix Cube and Canford Diecast. I'll report back when I do...
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Re: Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby The Korff » Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:08 pm

johnny h wrote:
Its not about being 'crappy'.

Non ported speakers have better time domain accuracy and can make it easier to judge mix levels, particularly in the mid range.


This is true — but the Auratone-style speakers have a further advantage over things like NS10s in that, because there's only one driver (and therefore one sound source), you don't get the phasiness that multi-driver speakers can suffer from at the crossover points. And with two-driver monitors (tweeter & woofer, like most affordable speakers), that crossover point tends to be right in the middle of the frequency range, which is the critical area when you're mixing. (Plus, the limited bandwidth of Auratones means they're mid-focused anyway.)

Cheers!

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Re: Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby timoc » Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:53 pm

Mike Senior wrote:
The last I heard, they were scheduled to ship at the end of September. I for one will be getting hold of them as soon as I can to put them up against my Avantone Mix Cube and Canford Diecast. I'll report back when I do...

They are shipping from German online stores now and I'm tempted to pull out the old credit card right now, but may hold off to hear what your thoughts are on the comparison...
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Re: Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby Mike Senior » Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:47 am

timoc wrote:They are shipping from German online stores now and I'm tempted to pull out the old credit card right now, but may hold off to hear what your thoughts are on the comparison...


Thanks for the heads-up. I'll get one over here straight away.
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Re: Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby Mike Senior » Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:19 am

Just had the C5A delivered yesterday. (C50 still not yet available -- I'll try again next week on that.) Good timing, actually, because I'm right in the middle of some pretty involved lead-vocal balancing work at the moment. My first experience was the flimsy plastic frame which supports the grille-foam fracturing in two places as I tried (carefully) to remove it. Other than that, though, the thing seems pretty robust, and quite a lot deeper than an Auratone, given the built-in amp -- about 50% deeper than it is tall. Reasonably heavy too.

First thing I did was sling it up alongside my Avantone Mixcube Active, and my first impressions are that it's LF frequency range is a lot more restricted by comparison -- more like my memories of the original Auratone, in fact. You'd have to work really hard to get your bass instruments to cut through on it, which is part of the point of using one. The timbre feels a lot less 'smooth' than the Avantone -- it comes across as definitely more lo-fi -- in that the details of the mix feel less clear, and everything feels a bit cramped together. This might well be a distortion issue, because the Avantone is very good in that respect. The big plus-point of the C5A for me so far is that it seems to be able to resolve lead-vocal balance pretty well. There's not much between it and the Avantone on this count as far as I can hear so far, although I've only given it an hour's listening, to be fair.

It'll be interesting to see how the C50 compares... Anyone else had any first-hand experience of the C5A?
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Re: Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby Gerard Klein » Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:27 am

Hello Mike, great that you could share so quickly. Do you think that there could be some "breaking in" involved (is that correct in English)? You know, where a speaker needs to work for a day or so to get to its true sound. On some other speakers I had it could make quite a difference, especially in the lower registers.

And do I get it right that you recommend getting just one unit, so you never use it in stereo?
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Re: Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby Andi » Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:14 am

Isn't the C5A supposed to hint at the Auratone and the C50A the Avantone? If so then so far so good.

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Re: Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby Martin Walker » Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:58 pm

Andi wrote:Isn't the C5A supposed to hint at the Auratone and the C50A the Avantone? If so then so far so good.

A.


Admittedly the C50A's 'look' like the Avantones, but are far as I can see, both models are identical expect that:

a) C5a is sold singly and has a veneered case with detachable front grille.

b) The C50A's are sold in pairs and had a gloss black case and no grille.

Behringer's own PDF brochure doesn't make things much clearer either, except that the C5A is described as 'modeled on a famous model from the 1970s', but whether this is the 'look' or the 'sound' isn't mentioned

www.behringer.com/assets/C50A_C5A_WebBrochure.pdf


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Re: Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby Martin Walker » Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:05 pm

Just answered my own query by watching the Behringer NAMM 2011 snippets on YouTube - apparently on the C50A they 'widened out the frequency response a little' compared with the C5A.

I strongly suspect that this means changing a couple of component values on an input filter before the digital amp (rather than tailoring the cabinet or loudspeaker model), so the C5A could possibly be retro-tweaked or even have a rear panel control fitted to switch between the two responses


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Re: Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby Gerard Klein » Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:42 pm

From the video: the rear seems to be identical on both models. So I guess no switch... although you can't see the entire back.
Youtube

Did not know that about the different sound. Interesting! And even harder to choose what to order...
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Re: Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby Mike Senior » Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:57 pm

Gerard Klein wrote:Hello Mike, great that you could share so quickly. Do you think that there could be some "breaking in" involved (is that correct in English)? You know, where a speaker needs to work for a day or so to get to its true sound. On some other speakers I had it could make quite a difference, especially in the lower registers.

Some speakers can require a bit of burning in, so I'm not rushing to any conclusions quite yet.

And do I get it right that you recommend getting just one unit, so you never use it in stereo?

You can get a stereo pair if you want, but I don't see any need to if you've already got stereo nearfields. Plus, it's easier to judge balance from a single-point source than from phantom images.
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Re: Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby Martin Walker » Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:47 pm

Gerard Klein wrote:From the video: the rear seems to be identical on both models. So I guess no switch... although you can't see the entire back.

Sorry Gerard - I meant that it could be THEORETICALLY possible to add a DIY switch once we boffins have seen the circuit diagrams

Mike - what does the C5A loudspeaker look like once you've removed the foam grille? Does it look like the same driver unit as the chromed C50A version?


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Re: Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby Mike Senior » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:05 pm

Martin Walker wrote:Mike - what does the C5A loudspeaker look like once you've removed the foam grille? Does it look like the same driver unit as the chromed C50A version?


I'll check when I get the C50. The reality of the hardware may not match the press shots.
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Re: Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby Martin Walker » Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:11 pm

Mike Senior wrote:
Martin Walker wrote:Mike - what does the C5A loudspeaker look like once you've removed the foam grille? Does it look like the same driver unit as the chromed C50A version?

I'll check when I get the C50. The reality of the hardware may not match the press shots.

Thanks!


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Re: Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby timoc » Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:43 pm

Thanks for posting. Here's a simple question: if I don't have a budget for the Avantone at the moment, do you think buying a single Behritone comes close to being useful as a mono mid-range reference speaker?
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Re: Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby Mike Senior » Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:00 pm

timoc wrote:Thanks for posting. Here's a simple question: if I don't have a budget for the Avantone at the moment, do you think buying a single Behritone comes close to being useful as a mono mid-range reference speaker?

Not a simple question! Depends what you're wanting it for, which is why I'm sitting firmly on the fence at the moment.
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Re: Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby timoc » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:32 pm

Mike Senior wrote: Depends what you're wanting it for, which is why I'm sitting firmly on the fence at the moment.

I guess to use as a mono mid-range monitor as you describe in ch2 in your book. I just saw that you've updated your website with a reference to the Behritones.

The trouble with the Avantones is that I can only really find them sold as a pair.
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Re: Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby Avantone Pro » Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:04 pm

Hello Everyone!

The issue of single MixCubes was not known to me until just several days ago when Mike Senior contacted me and gave me the information. In a different group, I replied (below is my answer). I also want to add that over 1000 pairs of MixCubes (Active, Passive in Butter Cream and 200 Actives in Black are arriving next week), so we will be shipping immediately to Europe! In addition, another 600 pair are due to arrive just a few weeks later. Avantone Pro is a very healthy company. Currently, we have ALL microphones and accessories in Stock. I don't think that I can remember that being the case since 2006 (I've been with all companies since the introduction of MixCubes, Microphones...). I hope this helps out and thanks!
__________________________________________________________________________________________
Hello again Mike and to everyone in Europe (right)?

This is Glen Heffner with Avantone Pro. I've been with all versions of "Avantone" since 2006 so I should know exactly what has and was going on!

The facts are quite simply that prior to Avantone Pro, none of the previous companies could ever keep up with the amount of orders that were coming in. That always implies money and while there were other reasons, that was a big reason.

Avantone Pro, however DOES NOT have that problem and we are bringing in huge amounts of product to meet the demand. Even now, our first order of MixCubes (both Passive and Active in Butter Cream and Actives in Black) are arriving around Oct. 14th, then another order a few weeks later. All in all, more than 1600 pair within a month! They are shipping to all of our distributors as soon as they arrive in New York, the new location for Avantone Pro. This is actually better for Europe because they cost much less to ship and it takes less time to get there.

Right now, we have every single microphone in stock! All of our accessories are in stock also. When the MixCubes arrive, I believe that this will be the first time that I can remember since 2006, that Avantone actually had all product in stock at one time! In addition, we are the OFFICIAL Avantone. We cover all warranties, and we are taking care of things fast. If you hear anything negative, tell the person saying it that you've heard from the Director of Sales & Marketing and they're wrong. We are full-tilt boogie:-)

Now, speaking to the great Mike Senoir, whom I've admired for his wonderful work for a long time, I promised to address the one speaker issue...so....

I am going to issue an email letter to all of our distributors letting them know that we want them to sell the same products that we sell in the US, (namely a mono passive and mono active MixCube). Distributors have only sold to their store customers in two pieces because they didn't want to break up a pair. I'm going to generate a new price list (within the next two days) that will solve that problem for them. It will offer the single units to them at exactly half the price of what they pay for a pair of MixCubes. This way there should not be any resistance what-so-ever to sell single piece MixCubes.

If you run into trouble, you can contact me at the email address I used for this forum which is: majormidi@hotmail.com or direct to me at: [email]glen@avantonepro.com.[/email] YOU WILL HEAR BACK FROM ME PRONTO!

Thanks to Mike I heard about this. I didn't know a thing until he let me know. Many, many thanks Mike.

In the meantime ladies and gentlemen, let me just say that Avantone Pro isn't living in the past. We have 3 absolutely amazing new products that we are working on right now that are stunning. Also, if you haven't already checked out our microphones, please give them a shot. They are really not just knock-offs. A lot of time, effort, and planning has gone into each and every one of our mics, and we don't use anything but the best components. You would be surprised to find out where some of the parts come from in our gear...Germany, New Zealand, France, Japan, etc...

At any rate, Thank you SOS Forum and evenyone have a great evening!

Sincerely,
Glen

--------------------
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Re: Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby sc1460 » Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:55 pm

Yes please a side-by-side review of the Canford Diecast , Mixcube, Auratone 5c, Fostex 6301, Behringer C5A would be a great article for SOS!
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Re: Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby timoc » Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:44 am

Avantone Pro wrote:

I am going to issue an email letter to all of our distributors letting them know that we want them to sell the same products that we sell in the US, (namely a mono passive and mono active MixCube). Distributors have only sold to their store customers in two pieces because they didn't want to break up a pair. I'm going to generate a new price list (within the next two days) that will solve that problem for them. It will offer the single units to them at exactly half the price of what they pay for a pair of MixCubes. This way there should not be any resistance what-so-ever to sell single piece MixCubes.

If you run into trouble, you can contact me at the email address I used for this forum which is: majormidi@hotmail.com or direct to me at: [email]glen@avantonepro.com.[/email] YOU WILL HEAR BACK FROM ME PRONTO!


--------------------

Long post-this was the interesting part. When will this take effect? Do you think I'll be able to buy a single Avantone by the end of this month in Europe? What about the big internet distributors (say in Germany, for example). Thanks
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Re: Behringer C5A or C50A Behritone vs Avantone Mixcube Active

Postby silentsky » Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:01 pm

I bought a C50A after reading Mike's excellent "Mixing Secrets" book (based upon his recommendation to get an Auratone clone of some kind), and I rather like the C50A. I definitely don't think Behringer ruined it by making it sound too good! If you read the specs on the Behri site, the C50A has a wider frequency response than the C5A, making the C50A more of an Avantone Mixcube clone while the C5A is more of a vintage Auratone clone.
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