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Logic or Cubase?

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Logic or Cubase?

Postby nerdle » Sat May 26, 2012 8:20 am

After buying Cubase because I have a PC and not a Mac and then spending two years looking for a teacher, having loads of problems with Cubase, discovering that logic is used to teach music tech in all the colleges and it's the industry standard in studios.... - have I made the wrong decision????? It's a heartbreaking time to find out when I'm several months into learning.

I'd like to be able to share projects with others to work on together etc - Cubase teachers are as rare as hen's teeth (my teacher doesn't have the latest version so can't learn note expression)- (and yes I have tried reading the manual).....

What do others think?
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Re: Logic or Cubase?

Postby Kwackman » Sat May 26, 2012 8:43 am

Both great DAWs- I have both.
If you don't have a mac- then decision is made for you!
Not having a cubase teacher is no big problem.
There are lots of youtube tutorials, and other on line and DVD tutorials that you could look at.

Whoever told you Logic was the "industry standard in studios" hasn't been in many studios!
Pro-Tools, Nuendo, Cubase, Logic, Sadie, Pyramix.....
The list is pretty long and if only one was used in all studios, the others wouldn't exist!

Whatever production and technical techniques the college teaches in Logic, the same principles will apply to all DAWs, or at least they should!

You can make great music using either Cubase to Logic, they both are capable of things we old folks couldn't even dream off a few decades ago.
Pick one, learn it and enjoy!
If you've already got Cubase, stick with it and use it.
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Re: Logic or Cubase?

Postby The Red Bladder » Sat May 26, 2012 9:04 am

nerdle wrote:discovering that logic is used to teach music tech in all the colleges and it's the industry standard in studios....

News to me!

I have many deep criticisms of the various MT courses in the UK, but only teaching Logic ain't one of them!

ProTools is usually named as the industry standard. Logic is popular with MIDI-based composers. If you just want to fiddle with audio files and MIDI is not your thing, Reaper is what we recommend.

The recording industry (such as it is) has many standards. ProTools and Reaper for audio tracking and editing, CuBase and Logic for footling about with MIDI, Sadie for mastering, Radar for mobile, etc., etc.

Just sit down and do all the on-line CuBase tutorials on YouTube and you'll be fine!
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Re: Logic or Cubase?

Postby Richie Royale » Sat May 26, 2012 9:40 am

Stick with Cubase; you have been using it a while so just keep asking questions when you get stuck.

Are you a member of http://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=19
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Re: Logic or Cubase?

Postby chris... » Sat May 26, 2012 10:07 am

Cubase on Mac is good too.
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Re: Logic or Cubase?

Postby Guest » Sat May 26, 2012 10:27 am

Isn't this like that old question...

Q. Why did Hendrix play a Stratocaster?
A. Because he liked Stratocasters.

Logic is quite a steep learning curve and only runs on a Mac and was designed mainly for people who can't play. It allows them to bugger about all day and pretend the can play.

Cubase was designed for programmers who can also play.

Pro-tools was designed for people who can't play but know loads of people who can.

Reaper was designed by a lunaic hippy and all his mates who can play, were happy for him to do all the programming so that they could get on with playing.

After using just about every DAW that's ever been made, i have settled on Reaper because it's incredibly stable, flexible, portable, easy to control with just about anythng you can plug into a computer, has fantastic file management and is laid out and flows more like a traditional hardware setup than anything else i've tried. It also has a forum where the design team and the contributing user-base are active, helpful and very quick to respond not only to queries and bug reports but even to design change requests.

Oh, and the midi is absolutely fine, as long as you can play.
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Re: Logic or Cubase?

Postby Dave Rowles » Sat May 26, 2012 10:56 am

ow wrote:Logic is quite a steep learning curve and only runs on a Mac and was designed mainly for people who can't play. It allows them to bugger about all day and pretend the can play.

I found logic ridiculously easy to work out how to use, and I play several instruments which I record. I use midi connected to my keyboard to play VSTis.

With all DAWs, which one is right for you is not about how good the program is, it's really about how your mind works. All of them do a good job for the interested amateur, and some excel in some aspect over another.

Reaper is a great program with very low cost. I'm going to be very tempted when the next version of Logic comes out, because I get the feeling they're not going to do an upgrade price.

If you've got Cubase and a PC, then I'd stick at it. While I sometimes find cubase cumbersome, it is a very full featured program, and there are loads of online tutorials. I'd give them a try before you consider a move, and if you do consider moving try reaper first before going any further.
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Re: Logic or Cubase?

Postby nerdle » Sat May 26, 2012 12:13 pm

Thanks for the words of encouragement - the cloud of gloom is dissipating...
It took so long to find a teacher and now I need another who has v6 - needle in haystack. Skype makes it all possible but people haven't caught on to it yet. I've trawled the internet for youtube tutorials and really don't understand them - I'm not teccy by nature and I need to be able to ask questions when I don't understand.

If I could go back 15 years and get a Mac I would - hard drive failure over and over and my Cubase is full of wierd quirks the Steinberg guys don't understand...

Is it a case of grass is greener?
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Re: Logic or Cubase?

Postby Guest » Sat May 26, 2012 12:25 pm

Grass greener? Probably is, and the light brighter, the taste sweeter...

One thing that Reaper doesn not have is a score editor/display. There's no score in there at all so if you're used to looking at the dots then forget it!

DAWs are always a compromise, they always seem to do 'nearly' everything you want but not quite. Of course depending on what you do, how you work etc, it might be worth considering a hard disc recorder/mixer thing. Perfectly good results available from them if you are mainly working with audio and you can always get the files back into a computer later on.

How do you work? Do you score your compositions with a pencil and then play them in? Do you work mainly mith midi, mainly with audio, a mix of the two? Virtual instruments? What do you do?

Armed with that info congregation might be able to brainstorm a workable setup for you.

Exavior Music wrote:...With all DAWs, which one is right for you is not about how good the program is, it's really about how your mind works...

+1
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Re: Logic or Cubase?

Postby Guest » Sat May 26, 2012 12:41 pm

Just to add, i feel your pain.

I actually got so frustrated trying to find a decent bit of compositional sofware for guitar that worked the way i wanted that i sat down for three months and wrote my own one! It's based on chordpro and abc file formats.

That's how bad it can get!

Stop now, use Cubase!
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Re: Logic or Cubase?

Postby nerdle » Sat May 26, 2012 1:24 pm

Hello again and to answer your question Exavior...

Its mostly midi - I'm not a musician but I can find an original tune and I'm creating a collection of short instrumental compositions. I record them as well as I can at home so some audio as well.

I need to learn loads more on the tech front and I'm thinking now I should replicate some current hit tracks to learn how they made those sounds.

My current project is a bit Klezmerish and I've tried the midi clarinet and guitar - they sound really terrible. Perhaps it's better instrument software I need and...... a teacher.....!

I'm wondering how to get these tracks to a great finished standard and it might be easier to ping a logic file (rather than cubase) to a producer to mix and master it for me.
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Re: Logic or Cubase?

Postby Dave Rowles » Sat May 26, 2012 2:00 pm

What file is best for a producer/mixer to receive would be down to discussion with whoever you want to finish the track.

I'll re-iterate what Red Bladder and Kwackman said, there isn't realistically an "industry standard", and most professionals would be able to use whatever mixing package was put infront of them, although they'll probably have a preference given a choice.

I might suggest that most pros would either have all the relevant packages, or have access to a missing link so they can export it in a format to get it into their own DAW or mixing solution of their choice. Cubase has many export options, so I wouldn't get too worried about that.

What you should concentrate on is how to use the package you've got. It's a good package and you've spent the money on it, and you'll probably find once you've learnt how to use it properly it'll do exactly what you want it to do. Midi control in Cubase is good. The sounds you've got may be lacking, but no more than any other DAWs packaged sounds. If you buy an expensive soundset, it'll probably work in any new DAW you buy, so don't worry on that front

If you have specific questions about how to use Cubase, then post them up here. Someone will be able to help. I'd also trawl through the "Cubase Notes" sections of Sound on Sound available online on this fine website, or do a search for your specific query. Most people around here are happy to help!
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Re: Logic or Cubase?

Postby nerdle » Sat May 26, 2012 2:44 pm

Thanks so much all of you - really encouraging!

Everyone I was talking to - a studio, composer, friend who recently set up a DAW all opted for Logic after years of using Cubase. If they were prepared to spend the money and relearn there must be something to it......

OK - need a teacher - new thread I think.....
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Re: Logic or Cubase?

Postby desmond » Sat May 26, 2012 5:53 pm

nerdle wrote:Everyone I was talking to - a studio, composer, friend who recently set up a DAW all opted for Logic after years of using Cubase. If they were prepared to spend the money and relearn there must be something to it......

They are all powerful tools that have way more features than most people even need anyway, and they all do broadly the same thing in broadly the same way - in short, it doesn't really matter.

Personally I've always been a C-Lab/emagic/Apple Notator/Logic guy, and have never really liked the Steinberg Pro24/Cubase thing, but there are plenty of people who use and love Cubase. If it's good enough for Hans Zimmer, it's probably able to do what you need to do - you've bought it, learn it - selling your existing computer and Cubase just to buy a Mac and Logic doesn't seem a particularly cost-effective way of making music.

So I say - you have what you need, so learn to use it - there are plenty of free or low-cost training resources for everything these days. No excuses... :)
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Re: Logic or Cubase?

Postby nerdle » Sat May 26, 2012 6:53 pm

Thanks - there are indeed lots of resources but I don't understand the youtube stuff/books. I'm trying again to find a teacher - its so hard. There are courses for £300 for two days in London - I just want to learn note expression - I don't want to sit through stuff I already know with a group.

You say no excuses - but I sooo want to learn and can't....
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Re: Logic or Cubase?

Postby Guest » Sat May 26, 2012 7:06 pm

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Re: Logic or Cubase?

Postby nerdle » Sat May 26, 2012 7:20 pm

Hello again
I have V6 not V5 - don't know what articulation is. I really appreciate you are trying to help.
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Re: Logic or Cubase?

Postby Guest » Sat May 26, 2012 7:28 pm

If you don't know what it is then why are you trying to use it?
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Re: Logic or Cubase?

Postby nerdle » Sat May 26, 2012 7:45 pm

I want to use note expression - thought articulation was on a lorry...
I've got V6 and want to know how to use it well - an article about V5 isn't useful for note exp.

I'm not a musician - I don't know what 'breath' is etc etc - recordings/articles assume I already know.
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Re: Logic or Cubase?

Postby James Perrett » Sat May 26, 2012 7:54 pm

I wonder if you need to take a step back and learn a few basics first. MIDI is fairly simple and once you've learned what the basic messages do, you can then understand better what the various bits of software are doing with those basic messages. Your comments about sounds also indicate that you haven't explored the world of sample libraries yet. Understanding how samples work and which ones would be best to use on your particular project is very important. Many composers spend thousands of pounds on sample libraries nowadays.

There's also nothing that says you have to stick with one piece of software - if something can be done better in Logic then use Logic for that bit and then import it back into your main software. If you are working with any notation at all then you also ought to be looking at Sibelius in conjunction with whatever DAW you want to use.

Once the studio is finished you would be welcome to come over and have a chat but I'm not an expert on the finer musical points of composition.

Cheers

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Re: Logic or Cubase?

Postby RegressiveRock » Sat May 26, 2012 7:55 pm

James Perrett wrote:I wonder if you need to take a step back and learn a few basics first. MIDI is fairly simple and once you've learned what the basic messages do, you can then understand better what the various bits of software are doing with those basic messages. Your comments about sounds also indicate that you haven't explored the world of sample libraries yet. Understanding how samples work and which ones would be best to use on your particular project is very important. Many composers spend thousands of pounds on sample libraries nowadays.

There's also nothing that says you have to stick with one piece of software - if something can be done better in Logic then use Logic for that bit and then import it back into your main software. If you are working with any notation at all then you also ought to be looking at Sibelius in conjunction with whatever DAW you want to use.

Once the studio is finished you would be welcome to come over and have a chat but I'm not an expert on the finer musical points of composition.

Cheers

James.

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Re: Logic or Cubase?

Postby nerdle » Sat May 26, 2012 8:16 pm

Thanks James - an interesting point. Don't really know what samples are. My teacher can help - he just can't help with V6.
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Re: Logic or Cubase?

Postby ken long » Sat May 26, 2012 10:24 pm

nerdle wrote:
I'd like to be able to share projects with others to work on together etc - Cubase teachers are as rare as hen's teeth (my teacher doesn't have the latest version so can't learn note expression)- (and yes I have tried reading the manual).....

What do others think?

Nobody I know shares projects easily because of plug in differences. Most times, people send tracks over or rendered stems so don't worry about sharing and caring.

Why do you need a teacher? When I started out some 20 years ago, there was nothing but the manuals. No forums like this where questions are answered from a pool of 17000 users and certainly no Youtube tutorial videos. You've got all of these resources. Must be overwhelming.
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Re: Logic or Cubase?

Postby nerdle » Sun May 27, 2012 6:11 am

The manual and I looked at each other for a long time - then I got a teacher and started to learn. I'm not a musician, never heard of EQ, compression, quantising etc - the book assumes you do know. Also - I have used the book along side my lessons and vital stuff isn't explained. Now I could learn note expression from my book/youtube but my software doesn't respond like the guy's does and I can't ask him why or show him my screen.

Some have been useful yes - but I'm not teccy - I'm arty and don't logical things well. If its easy for you then I envy that.
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Re: Logic or Cubase?

Postby Kwackman » Sun May 27, 2012 2:52 pm

nerdle wrote:I'm not a musician, never heard of EQ, compression, quantising etc - SNIP but I'm not teccy -SNIP I'm arty

I don't mean this in a nasty or rude way- but why are you doing DAW work if you are not a musician or a techie? Surely you need to tick one of those boxes?
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Re: Logic or Cubase?

Postby nerdle » Sun May 27, 2012 6:46 pm

Hi and none taken!

There is another box to tick - I can invent a jolly good tune!

I don't know many others but Lionel Bart couldn't read music - he did alright (until Twang anyway)!
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