You are here

Limiter on Akai sampler inputs?

For everything after the recording stage: hardware/software and how you use it.

Limiter on Akai sampler inputs?

Postby vinyl_junkie » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:09 am

Does any one know if the Akai S-3x series i.e. S-3000/3200XL had limiters before the ADC stage?

I always wondered about this as you could drive the inputs pretty hard and not get the unpleasant clipping sounds you would get with other converters/samplers, instead you would get this analogue like distortion if you really piled it on which sounds rather errm nice on certain sounds such as kick drums or snares... In fact I do it all the time

If I sample hot into the MPC-60 or Ensoniq EPS-16+ as expected you get horrible clipping of the proper square wave variety and deviating from the root pitch youzers it's even worse lol
vinyl_junkie
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1576
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2003 11:00 pm
Location: Kent, UK

Re: Limiter on Akai sampler inputs?

Postby hollowsun » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:11 am

vinyl_junkie wrote:Does any one know if the Akai S-3x series i.e. S-3000/3200XL had limiters before the ADC stage?
It doesn't
User avatar
hollowsun
Frequent Poster
Posts: 2122
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:00 am

Re: Limiter on Akai sampler inputs?

Postby vinyl_junkie » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:13 am

hollowsun wrote:
vinyl_junkie wrote:Does any one know if the Akai S-3x series i.e. S-3000/3200XL had limiters before the ADC stage?
It doesn't

Thanks, must be all down to the ADC used then
vinyl_junkie
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1576
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2003 11:00 pm
Location: Kent, UK

Re: Limiter on Akai sampler inputs?

Postby hollowsun » Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:00 pm

And the supporting analogue circuitry.

I know the chap who designed all the S-series and I know there's no limiter in there specifically but his roots were in analogue so may well have designed a 'flattering' circuit to support the ADC. I don't know for sure though (and if I asked him, he probably wouldn't remember ... a typical and wonderfully absent minded genius!).
User avatar
hollowsun
Frequent Poster
Posts: 2122
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:00 am

Re: Limiter on Akai sampler inputs?

Postby Chevytraveller » Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:16 pm

hollowsun wrote:And the supporting analogue circuitry.

I know the chap who designed all the S-series and I know there's no limiter in there specifically but his roots were in analogue so may well have designed a 'flattering' circuit to support the ADC. I don't know for sure though (and if I asked him, he probably wouldn't remember ... a typical and wonderfully absent minded genius!).

Would that be Mr Huggett or Mr Cockerell?.. although both easily qualify in the genius camp..

User avatar
Chevytraveller
Frequent Poster
Posts: 842
Joined: Fri May 12, 2000 11:00 pm
Location: Hastings

Soft: MBP 15", X-Station, LogicX, Mainstage 3, Korg legacy, Diva, Alchemy,
Hard: Emulator II, E-Synth, Roland Promars, Obie TVS-1, Waldorf Q, AS Vostok, AS Telemark, AS Leipzig-S.. Eurocrack disease


Re: Limiter on Akai sampler inputs?

Postby vinyl_junkie » Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:22 pm

Chevytraveller wrote:
hollowsun wrote:And the supporting analogue circuitry.

I know the chap who designed all the S-series and I know there's no limiter in there specifically but his roots were in analogue so may well have designed a 'flattering' circuit to support the ADC. I don't know for sure though (and if I asked him, he probably wouldn't remember ... a typical and wonderfully absent minded genius!).


Would that be Mr Huggett or Mr Cockerell?.. although both easily qualify in the genius camp..



I think it would be Mr Cockerell. Chris Huggett from what I read was responsible for the software on the S-1000 and S-3000's, I'm pretty sure he was working for Novation by the time the 5/6000 came out so some one else probs did that at a guess.
David did the hardware since day one, the S612 I think started out life as a looper pedal from when he was working for Electro Harmonix
vinyl_junkie
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1576
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2003 11:00 pm
Location: Kent, UK

Re: Limiter on Akai sampler inputs?

Postby hollowsun » Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:43 pm

It's Mr Cockerell. Chris, as you say, did the software/OS.

Chris went to Novation about halfway through the S5/6000 dev but there was a bit of an overlap just out of common decency.

David did a lot of Akai's hardware from samplers to disk recorders. He also did that odd little phrase trainer thing ... almost literally on a napkin in a restaurant meeting with the chaps from Japan R+D!! So while the others were chomping down on their dim sum and crispy duck, he designed a real time timestretcher! Clever, clever bloke!

And yes, the S612 was originally six ElectroHarmonix 'Memory Man' delay/loopers strapped together to create a simple 6-voice sampler. It was hawked around various big Japanese MI manufacturers at the time and, not naming names, was turned down because (and I kind of quote) "We see no future for sampling"!!

But a Mr Tamaki, head of R+D with this new little company in dingy little offices just outside Kawasaki saw the potential and took it on. David then did the legendary S900. The rest, as they say, is history.

The S612 is still a great piece of kit for dead noddy, simple sampling - just banging a sound in there and playing it instantly without all the complexities of multi-sampling, velocity zones, etc.. And front panel knobbage for editing. Sounded damned good too. I know quite a few pros who still have them in their racks and use them regularly.

Akai were damned innovative in their time and Mr Tamaki and David had a great relationship. Mr Tamaki would spot some new technology or a new chipset or something and would ask David if it had potential - next thing you knew, David had designed a new product! And when I say "next thing you knew" I mean a day or two later!!

One of this industry's great unsung heroes. People talk of Bob Moog, Tom Oberheim, Dave Smith, etc., but David should be up there in pantheon of great innovators - the man was dabbling with digital synthesis and sampling on a PDP8 mainframe back in 1967 FFS! And designed possibly the quirkiest (and best looking) synths of all time...

Image

I cut my synthesist teeth on that thing!
User avatar
hollowsun
Frequent Poster
Posts: 2122
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:00 am

Re: Limiter on Akai sampler inputs?

Postby vinyl_junkie » Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:43 pm

hollowsun wrote:

One of this industry's great unsung heroes. People talk of Bob Moog, Tom Oberheim, Dave Smith, etc., but David should be up there in pantheon of great innovators - the man was dabbling with digital synthesis and sampling on a PDP8 mainframe back in 1967 FFS! And designed possibly the quirkiest (and best looking) synths of all time...

Image

I cut my synthesist teeth on that thing!

Great info there HS, loved reading it and I absolutely agree on the last point!

I saw a few programs on the BBC about early electronic music/radio phonic workshop stuff and David always pops up, very clever man indeed :-)

I wonder what the Akai samplers would of been like if they would of made their own proprietary VLSI chips a'la Ensoniq and EMU, I guess they didn't have the resources or need to do this though.
Regardless great workhorse bread&butter samplers that are VERY reliable and stable, I use mine every day.

It's mad how cheap these are now days, I picked up a mint S-2800 few weeks ago for 25 quid, I have it set up in my other room connected to my mixer and turntables should I need to sample anything from a record.
Totally forgot how great the FX were on the old 3x series! (Probs come from the 1100)
The modulated delay, multi-tap delay and flanger are so nice! Much better than the EB-16 fx on the 3200XL I use imo

I recently treated it to a new backlight and inverter so it's silent now :-)

If it ain't broke why fix it I say, the 3200XL has given me hours of fun working with it and some tunes along the way :-)

Image
vinyl_junkie
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1576
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2003 11:00 pm
Location: Kent, UK

Re: Limiter on Akai sampler inputs?

Postby Guest » Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:47 pm

Do you think that vintage samplers will take on the same kudos/value as vintage synths - at some time future?
Guest

Re: Limiter on Akai sampler inputs?

Postby vinyl_junkie » Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:00 pm

ow wrote:Do you think that vintage samplers will take on the same kudos/value as vintage synths - at some time future?

I haven't a clue but EMU samplers especially the SP-1200 and early Emulators command a lot of wonga on the second hand market already.
As do the classic Akai MPC's such as the 60 and 3000

I think in certain scenes such as hip hop the samplers command a lot more kudos than vintage synths, every one wants a SP-1200 to sound like Pete Rock or a MPC-60 etc

As for the rest of the samplers only time will tell if we'll be seeing on ebay S-1000's and 1100's going for mental money... I hope not, I still want a 1100. Not out of need but just because I always wanted one, good enough reason no? lol
vinyl_junkie
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1576
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2003 11:00 pm
Location: Kent, UK

Re: Limiter on Akai sampler inputs?

Postby hollowsun » Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:44 am

vinyl_junkie wrote:I wonder what the Akai samplers would of been like if they would of made their own proprietary VLSI
They did use VLSIs ... which David designed.
User avatar
hollowsun
Frequent Poster
Posts: 2122
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:00 am


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: The Elf and 3 guests