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Best Wave Editor

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Best Wave Editor

Postby Anonymous » Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:08 pm

I’ve been cleaning up clitches recently using Soundforge 7 (crap I know but Wavelab causes freeze problems with my PC).

When I use the pen to smooth out spikes and flat tops, it would be great if it could also average out the wave rather than just let me draw anything and make it worse and require undo. I’m wondering what can be done with other programs. How advanced are the actions for these kind of jobs?

Thanks
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Re: Best Wave Editor

Postby James Perrett » Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:26 pm

I've never really got on with Sound Forge. I'd suggest you take a look at Adobe Audition for decent de-clicking tools and a whole host of other features. If you want really high quality de-clicking and noise reduction then you could also take a look at Izotope's RX2 which is on special offer at the moment.

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Re: Best Wave Editor

Postby Martin Walker » Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:57 pm

+1 for James' recommendation of izotope RX


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Re: Best Wave Editor

Postby Guest » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:18 pm

Thanks. Are these just fancy equalisers really?
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Re: Best Wave Editor

Postby Neokoenig » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:38 pm

RX has a visual spectrum analyser where you can literally paint out offending noises etc - it's really rather impressive...
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Re: Best Wave Editor

Postby ken long » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:44 pm

I think any decent editor will have spectrum analysis and error correction.

Hmm... Shouldn't you just try to get Wavelab to work if you already have it? What kind of issues are you experiencing? How do you make it freeze?
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Re: Best Wave Editor

Postby The Red Bladder » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:32 pm

Josif A. Soterίou wrote:I’ve been cleaning up clitches recently using Soundforge 7

When it comes to editing out glitches, nothing works as well as Reaper. Izotope's NR packages are really good and even the budget priced ones are excellent.

Soundforge 7 is now so old (10 years? 8 Years?) that you will be amazed at what is on offer from just about everybody - even Soundforge 10 is sort of OK for some of this work.
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Re: Best Wave Editor

Postby ken long » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:12 pm

The Red Bladder wrote:
When it comes to editing out glitches, nothing works as well as Reaper for me.

Fixed that for you.
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Re: Best Wave Editor

Postby BJG145 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:26 pm

Sony now have their own dedicated spectral editing package.

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/spectralayerspro
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Re: Best Wave Editor

Postby James Perrett » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:51 pm

Josif A. Soterίou wrote:Thanks. Are these just fancy equalisers really?

No, they're much smarter than than. Basically they look at the audio either side of the glitch and substitute something sensible instead of the glitch.

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Re: Best Wave Editor

Postby Mixedup » Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:42 pm

ken long wrote:
The Red Bladder wrote:
When it comes to editing out glitches, nothing works as well as CEDAR's bureau service, but Reaper works well enough for me.

Fixed that for you.


Ditto.
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Re: Best Wave Editor

Postby The Red Bladder » Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:52 pm

Mixedup wrote:
ken long wrote:
The Red Bladder wrote:
When it comes to editing out glitches, nothing works as well as CEDAR's bureau service, but Reaper works well enough for me.


Fixed that for you.


Ditto.


I get the distinct impression that someone is trying to jerk my chain. Well, let me tell you, I shall ignore you all and go back to rubbing Sudocream into my testicles.
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Re: Best Wave Editor

Postby ken long » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:18 pm

I don't think CEDAR provide anything distinctly different anymore. What they do have is expertise. So yes, go ahead and pay them a fortune to remove clicks or use just about any decent editor and DIY and you will achieve the same results. As an aside, Sudocream is not meant to be rubbed into balls. You're supposed to work it into your pubes to prevent them from becoming angry shredded wheat.
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Re: Best Wave Editor

Postby Zukan » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:16 am

The Red Bladder wrote:
Josif A. Soterίou wrote:I’ve been cleaning up clitches recently using Soundforge 7

When it comes to editing out glitches, nothing works as well as Reaper. Izotope's NR packages are really good and even the budget priced ones are excellent.

Soundforge 7 is now so old (10 years? 8 Years?) that you will be amazed at what is on offer from just about everybody - even Soundforge 10 is sort of OK for some of this work.

Too many issues with 10 that they still haven't resolved. Mainly the Batch processor; has too many bugs and is flaky as hell.

Plugins don't always behave in dry/wet mode and result in only a wet output. I must have about 3 sets of manufacturers plugins that have been left redundant because of this. It's beat detection tool is not the best and it's lacking a decent pitch detector unlike Wavelab.

However, it does have some really good tools, envelope shaping being one of them along with Acid tools and cd authoring.

Shame though because it really does work nicely bar the bugs.....
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Re: Best Wave Editor

Postby SecretSam » Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:46 pm

Wavelab has a good feature set, and works well for most people most of the time. The problem with Steinberg is that their tech support veers between utterly unacceptable and completely non-existent. So if Wavelab isn't working for you, you are stuck with a very long fault-finding job. On your own. With no help from Steinberg. At all.
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Re: Best Wave Editor

Postby ken long » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:09 pm

SecretSam wrote: The problem with Steinberg is that their tech support veers between utterly unacceptable and completely non-existent. So if Wavelab isn't working for you, you are stuck with a very long fault-finding job. On your own. With no help from Steinberg. At all.

Not very fair, Sam. Philippe, the WL developer, is on the forum all the time to answer questions and help troubleshoot.

http://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=47

He goes by the handle PG and usually responds to threads within 24 hours.
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Re: Best Wave Editor

Postby Martin Walker » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:39 am

He does indeed, and answers all these questions single-handedly.

A fine developer


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Re: Best Wave Editor

Postby Guest » Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:08 pm

I got Adobe Audition CS5 in the end …seems great so far.

I quite like the noise reduction features too, at least to knock back hum and hiss a bit (like reverse phase cancellation). But I hate that digital metallic sound you sometimes get from higher settings on these things. I’ve not tried the adaptive noise feature yet. How does AA compare with Izotope’s RX2?

Thanks

(P.S. Installing Wavelab seemed to cause my PC to freeze (not the program) even when it was not running. When I uninstalled it, the problem stopped. I can't really mess about with it, and I got it bundled free anyway.
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Re: Best Wave Editor

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:19 pm

These kinds of noise reduction work best if you take several small bites at the cherry instead of one whopping big one! And be sensible about the amount of noise reduction you can achieve without damaging the wanted audio. Think noise 'reduction' rather than noise 'removal'!

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Re: Best Wave Editor

Postby James Perrett » Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:17 pm

I'd echo Hugh's suggestion to do several passes of noise reduction. I'll usually aim for 10-12dB for each pass although I've gone as low as 6dB per pass when artefacts have been a problem.

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Re: Best Wave Editor

Postby Guest » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:53 pm

I agree. I also record just the noise itself (e.g. dry amp & dry electric static noise from pickups). I process a copy>pasted version of the track with noise reduction while keeping the original track. Then when I come to mixing, I can fade out the noise-reduced track during the parts where the noise is adequately masked by the level of wanted sound (or other instruments).

I really worry about what is being lost much more than non-intrusive noise. The more I listen, the more my mind plays tricks (e.g. exaggerates). That’s why I put everything into quarantine for a while before any final decisions.
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Re: Best Wave Editor

Postby James Perrett » Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:45 pm

Josif A. Soterίou wrote:Then when I come to mixing, I can fade out the noise-reduced track during the parts where the noise is adequately masked by the level of wanted sound (or other instruments).

That's exactly what properly set up noise reduction should be doing so you shouldn't need to worry about using two tracks if you're using the right noise reduction settings.

Josif A. Soterίou wrote:
I really worry about what is being lost much more than non-intrusive noise. The more I listen, the more my mind plays tricks (e.g. exaggerates). That’s why I put everything into quarantine for a while before any final decisions.

The great thing with Audition is that it lets you listen to the noise that it is removing. It should sound like random noise - if you hear something that sounds too much like the wanted sound you know that you're removing too much.

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Re: Best Wave Editor

Postby Guest » Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:26 pm

James Perrett wrote:The great thing with Audition is that it lets you listen to the noise that it is removing. It should sound like random noise - if you hear something that sounds too much like the wanted sound you know that you're removing too much.

James.

Great tip! Thanks
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Re: Best Wave Editor

Postby Martin Walker » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:03 am

Many noise reduction plug-ins provide this feature, and I agree that it's invaluable.

Just turn up the amount of noise reduction until it changes from noise to a little bit of music, and then turn it back down a little to make sure you're not throwing out any baby with the bathwater


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Re: Best Wave Editor

Postby ken long » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:00 am

or just re-record with a better SNR...
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Re: Best Wave Editor

Postby Zukan » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:22 am

Surely you mean the chipmunk Martin?
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Re: Best Wave Editor

Postby Guest » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:52 pm

ken long wrote:or just re-record with a better SNR...

Thanks... but if I wasn't capable of thinking up that solution I wouldn't be able to tie my own shoelaces, let alone write a forum post.

In practice, I'd choose a Take 2 with more musical spontaneity and passion -but a bit of unfortunate noise- than a Take 20 with no noise but less spontaneity. Sometimes it is better to deal with it as it is.
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Re: Best Wave Editor

Postby C.LYDE » Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:49 am

ken long wrote:
SecretSam wrote: The problem with Steinberg is that their tech support veers between utterly unacceptable and completely non-existent. So if Wavelab isn't working for you, you are stuck with a very long fault-finding job. On your own. With no help from Steinberg. At all.

Not very fair, Sam. Philippe, the WL developer, is on the forum all the time to answer questions and help troubleshoot.

http://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=47

He goes by the handle PG and usually responds to threads within 24 hours.

+++1 = 3!
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Re: Best Wave Editor

Postby Martin Walker » Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:05 am

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Re: Best Wave Editor

Postby Guest » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:08 pm

James Perrett wrote:The great thing with Audition is that it lets you listen to the noise that it is removing. It should sound like random noise - if you hear something that sounds too much like the wanted sound you know that you're removing too much.

Is this being used for creative purposes as well as quality control? For example, imagine if you needed a didgeridoodar but only had a crappy cardboard tube. What if you recorded your didge part through that, then recorded just air flowing through the tube and cut that sound from your 'didge' recording using noise reduction... then processed that deleted sound through an IR taken from a good didgeridoo (so that it reasonable fits the length of the tube), then mixed it back with the (noise reducted) audio... wouldn't that get closer to a real didge? There might be countless other applications of this kind too. Cutting certain frequences and processing these, or the remaining frequencies that are chosen for effect rather than because they're noise-free. Just a thought.
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