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universal shockmounts?

Postby saltybrian » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:26 pm

Hi,

I'm looking for a shockmount for an Audio Technica 4050. Can anyone recommend a universal shockmount, or am I going to have to bite the bullet and buy the AT one for £70?

Thanks
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Re: universal shockmounts?

Postby ronmac » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:38 pm

Rycote make one:
one
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Re: universal shockmounts?

Postby twotoedsloth » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:46 am

The Rycote mount is really nice. I use one with my AT 4050ST, it should work fine for your 4050.

Only catch is that it's a bit more expensive than the stock AT mount.
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Re: universal shockmounts?

Postby saltybrian » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:48 am

Hi Ronmac,
Thanks, but as far as I can see that one looks MORE expensive. Do I need to spend that much or are the cheaper options usable?
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Re: universal shockmounts?

Postby Bob Bickerton » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:16 am

Another vote for the Rycote. Maybe read Hugh's review.

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Re: universal shockmounts?

Postby John Willett » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:26 am

Ryote USM or USM-L

Better than expensive mounts costing £2-300 and will hold virtually any LDC (or even a side-fire SDC).

You can even swap the lyres over easily if you need to change them for mor (or less) flexible versions.

There is nothing that can touch them at the price.

Hugh's review is HERE and the Studio Kit is here.
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Re: universal shockmounts?

Postby Jeraldo » Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:16 pm

John Willett wrote:Ryote USM or USM-L


You can even swap the lyres over easily if you need to change them for mor (or less) flexible versions.


Useful to know!!! That issue has kept me from ordering a pair of LD mounts-trying to guess what mic's they'd cover now and in the future. And Rycote parts are generally very well priced.

BTW, I was speaking with an employee of the US distributor, and he mentioned that when a LD mic is used "off vertical" (tipped or fully horizontal), there is full damping until the point of contact between the lyre and the ring of the mount. What do you think?

Also, I use the double square clips for two MKH mic's. Would both mics fit in a USM-L mount? Now, I just use a Sennheiser shock mount with the other mic clipped on. It seems to work quite well.

Also US people might like to know that the USM-L is available without the pop shield package, though it's now rarely (if ever) advertised without the package. The retailer has to special order it-the packages can't be separated. OTH, most people probably want the package.
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Re: universal shockmounts?

Postby Jeraldo » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:44 pm

Jeraldo wrote:

BTW, I was speaking with an employee of the US distributor, and he mentioned that when a LD mic is used "off vertical" (tipped or fully horizontal), there is full damping until the point of contact between the lyre and the ring of the mount. What do you think?

Should be "contact between inner and outer ring" of the mount.
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Re: universal shockmounts?

Postby saltybrian » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:20 pm

I take it from the responses so far that I'm not going to get away with a cheapskate product such as this?

Or is it worth a punt?

Also, does anyone know whether an at8449sv mount would work for a 4050? The specified mount is an at8449 and I don't know the significance of the 'sv' , but have seen on eadvertised for a decent price
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Re: universal shockmounts?

Postby ronmac » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:23 pm

I'm all for saving money where one can, but.... "buy cheap, buy twice".
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Re: universal shockmounts?

Postby Jonnypopisical » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:17 am

At the cheaper end Studiospare's own it pretty good IMHO about £25 if I recall - the one with the built in pop shield

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Re: universal shockmounts?

Postby John Willett » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:33 am

Jeraldo wrote:
John Willett wrote:Ryote USM or USM-L


You can even swap the lyres over easily if you need to change them for mor (or less) flexible versions.

Useful to know!!! That issue has kept me from ordering a pair of LD mounts-trying to guess what mic's they'd cover now and in the future. And Rycote parts are generally very well priced.

BTW, I was speaking with an employee of the US distributor, and he mentioned that when a LD mic is used "off vertical" (tipped or fully horizontal), there is full damping until the point of contact between the lyre and the ring of the mount. What do you think?

Also, I use the double square clips for two MKH mic's. Would both mics fit in a USM-L mount? Now, I just use a Sennheiser shock mount with the other mic clipped on. It seems to work quite well.

Also US people might like to know that the USM-L is available without the pop shield package, though it's now rarely (if ever) advertised without the package. The retailer has to special order it-the packages can't be separated. OTH, most people probably want the package.

For MS work with SDCs I use the new INV-7HG - actually my idea originally as I put the "devils head" lyre on my INV-7 instead of the standard lyres and used that for MS together with the Rycote back-to-back clips. Rycote liked my idea so they now use that as the new standard INF-7HG.

Regarding the USM - the USM-L is normally the better option if the mic. is vertical - if it's angled, then the USM is the better option.

As far as I know it is correct to sat that there is full damping until the mic. bottoms out.
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Re: universal shockmounts?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:42 am

Jeraldo wrote:BTW, I was speaking with an employee of the US distributor, and he mentioned that when a LD mic is used "off vertical" (tipped or fully horizontal), there is full damping until the point of contact between the lyre and the ring of the mount. What do you think?

Yes there is... but there shouldn't be contact between the inner and outer rings at all, even when horizontal. If there is, you need to install stiffer lyres.

Also, I use the double square clips for two MKH mic's. Would both mics fit in a USM-L mount?

The USM mount is optimised for side-address mics -- that's the direction of greatest compliance. For end address mics like most MKHs, you should use the InVision mounts which provide the greatest compliance in the axial plane.

Obviously, for an MS pair you have a problem because one mic is end-fire and the other side-address. Personally, I use the InVision mounts and the double clip for that application because it is a neater solution and I generally roll off a lot of bottom from the S mic anyway, so the imperfect axial shockmounting is less of an issue.

However, I should think you could mount two MKHs in a USM -- I've never tried it but will give it a go later and report back.

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Re: universal shockmounts?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:07 pm

saltybrian wrote:I take it from the responses so far that I'm not going to get away with a cheapskate product

It would surely be daft to potentially wreck the quality of sound from such a good mic with a cheap, nasty and ineffective shock mount.

All directional mics are very prone to suffering from excessive LF output due to mechanical vibrations transferred to the diaphragm. Eseentially, if the mic wobbles, the diaphragm wobbles too but it can't tell if the wobble is a genuine acoustic signal or an unwanted mechanical vibration transferred through the stand or cable.

A schock mount is intended to remove that wobble in a similar way that the springs and dampers in your car isolate the passengers from lumps and bumps in the road. However, it only works properly if designed properly, which means the springs and dampers have to be optimised for the mass of the load and the critical frequency range.

All shockmounts have a limited range of frequencies over whcih they are effective. Below that range most will actually go into resonance and end up amplifying the vibrations rather than subduing them! And if the mas is different from that intended, the resonant frquency will move somewhere unhelpful and is likely to make the problems worse rather than better!

One would assume that the AT shockmount design has been optimised for the 4050 mic, and is thus a sensible purchase, but personally I find the design fiddly to use and sooner or later those elastic bands will stretch, reducing the damping and effectiveness of the mount, and will need to be replaced.

The Rycote design is made by a company that only makes shock mounts and has a unique engineering pedigree proven over a very long time. They make OEM mounts for a surprising number of mic manufacturers too. The Lyre system is a patented design with brilliant engineering. The Lyres are unbreakable, their elastic properties do not change or degrade over time (as virtually all other systems do), and they are made in a wide variety of stiffnesses so that the damping can be precisely optimised for a wide range of microphone masses (and orientations).

Moreover, the Rycote systems cost the same as many manufacturers systems (like the AT) and substantially less than some (like the Neumanns!), but are technical better than both.

I use USMs with my own AT 4040s.

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Re: universal shockmounts?

Postby Mike Stranks » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:35 pm

A brief word from our cheapskate correspondent...

Until recently I was using one of the generic products - as previously referenced - on a "oh that'll do" basis...

Recently got the opportunity to buy an 'as new' "proper" shockmount at a cheapskate price. The difference is huge. Comparing the two, I wonder what the cheapskate was doing apart from looking as though it was doing something.

Sometimes us shallow-enders simply cut too many corners...
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Re: universal shockmounts?

Postby ConcertinaChap » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:41 pm

John Willett wrote:For MS work with SDCs I use the new INV-7HG - actually my idea originally as I put the "devils head" lyre on my INV-7 instead of the standard lyres and used that for MS together with the Rycote back-to-back clips. Rycote liked my idea so they now use that as the new standard INF-7HG.

I'd not noticed this, it looks like fulfilling my long standing requirement for a decent stereo bar at a sensible price. Thanks for that.

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