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Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

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Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby DarrenSw » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:26 pm

I could be wrong, but don't think I am... Have a listen to new Robbie Williams song, Different - at about 3:20 he is blatantly out of tune.

How does this stuff get out? Is it supposed to be? I can't imagine it is.

Link to it on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFCWdrnZ ... r_embedded
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Re: Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby narcoman » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:37 pm

Why is that the engineers responsibility?

Out of tune - yup. He is on the "love was the answer".... But so is nearly all of the vocal for "boots were made for walking".

However - here is WHY he's out of tune. Proving he didn't use auto tune!! Terrible song though from a truly dreadful artist.


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Re: Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby Gary_W » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:38 pm

It sounds ropey to me too but I'm guessing as the artist concerned is happily miming away to it in the video he must think it sounds OK?
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Re: Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby Jack Ruston » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:48 pm

That's a decision made between the artist and the producer. If they want to leave it au naturel that's to be applauded I suppose. It's not the engineers call.

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Re: Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby Jonesd90 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:10 pm

It does sound pretty bad to be honest, the tuning is quite audibly not right.

However, watching that video I don't care about the tuning, Robbie's poor attempt at conducting is what's making me cringe/laugh my balls off.
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Re: Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby _ Six _ » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:28 pm

I think he's a decent bloke that's done incredibly well for himself by taking risks. But I watched 10 mins of his recent O2 area dates (on Sky2) and was shocked at how bad he really is.

Good luck to him but it was Guy Chambers that made him who he is.
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Re: Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby shufflebeat » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:41 pm

Contrast that with the recent article on Sinatra.

Robbie:

Can't do it
Doesn't know what it is
Doesn't care enough

We're all decent blokes, some of us work hard (I include myself in the first one but probably not the second). Doesn't mean we should be allowed to get away with shoddy work. Trouble is, with RW it's not really about music, is it?
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Re: Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby oggyb » Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:19 pm

Ha.

Almost as criminal as the asynchronous "conducting" shots in that video.
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Re: Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby DAGGILARR » Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:41 pm

I do believe, like politicians we get the rock stars we deserve, and on the whole do rather better with the latter
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Re: Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby Guest » Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:49 am

narcoman wrote:Terrible song though from a truly dreadful artist.

I thought I was the only one that thought that! He's lucky he sang angels.
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Re: Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby stollypop » Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:06 am

He's starting to look like Mel Gibson too. Perhaps he's using Mels singing voice.
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Re: Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby Shambolic Charm » Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:32 am

Here we go again! Vocal Fascism . I blame X-factor for this modern obsession with pitch perfection. Have you heard the 4 tracks of the Beatles recordings kicking around the web? the engineer should have been sacked surely...and as for Velvet underground; The Stones etc. I'm not saying Robbie Williams carries their creative clout but I have a feeling that pitch obsession is deflecting attention from other areas of the creative process.
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Re: Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby BJG145 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:56 am

That F# on "the"...? Sounds great. It's called "not destroying every vestige of interest and feeling by reaching automatically for simple chords and a tuner." Listen and learn.

C/F#/B...lovely. It's probably more the dissonance of the C on the bass and B on the high strings which you don't like.
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Re: Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby narcoman » Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:31 am

Music Manic wrote:
narcoman wrote:Terrible song though from a truly dreadful artist.


I thought I was the only one that thought that! He's lucky he sang angels.


maybe!! But that is also a high overrated track. It lives with Wonderwall as unbelievably successful junk. ... funny old world.
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Re: Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby narcoman » Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:32 am

Shambolic Charm wrote:Here we go again! Vocal Fascism . I blame X-factor for this modern obsession with pitch perfection. Have you heard the 4 tracks of the Beatles recordings kicking around the web? the engineer should have been sacked surely...and as for Velvet underground; The Stones etc. I'm not saying Robbie Williams carries their creative clout but I have a feeling that pitch obsession is deflecting attention from other areas of the creative process.


Not at all. There's imperfect loveliness and there's bad singing.

It's not about not liking. It's out of tune in a bad way. Not the wonderful blueing of Amy Winehouse or the rumbling under singing of Lou Reed or even the stretching of Tom Jones or even JK. It's just bang out of tune! Pulling notes out of tune worked fabulously for Estelle on "American Boy" but to pull that off you need the right tone and full control of the tune; it takes a great singer to be able to achieve that OR it needs something with natural vocal charisma like Reed or even the much loathed Ian Brown.

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Re: Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby Phil Reynolds » Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:21 am

narcoman wrote:...the wonderful blueing of Amy Winehouse ...

I'd always assumed that she just couldn't hit the right notes. Suppose one man's "blue" note is another man's plain wrong. I was never overly keen on her very liberal interpretation of "timing", either.
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Re: Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby Tartaruga » Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:05 pm

‘Yes’,but somehow,Amy could really sing,RW…don’t know.
Apart from the matters pointed in previous posts,it sounds totally distorted and squashed in my system,or is it ‘YT’ quality?
I’ve heard lots of stuff in this site,and not everything sound as bad and ‘flattened' as this ‘song’...
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Re: Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby Beat Poet » Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:06 pm

RW was certainly a great showman in his day, but I've never been keen on his voice. I always thought he sung the swing stuff the best, that kind of music is his true love right?
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Re: Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby Tartaruga » Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:07 pm

Sorry…
Apart from the ‘intro’,there’s no ‘dynamic' at all…VU’s are just ‘glued’ to a fixed value...
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Re: Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby Guest » Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:34 pm

Shambolic Charm wrote:Here we go again! Vocal Fascism . I blame X-factor for this modern obsession with pitch perfection. Have you heard the 4 tracks of the Beatles recordings kicking around the web? the engineer should have been sacked surely...and as for Velvet underground; The Stones etc. I'm not saying Robbie Williams carries their creative clout but I have a feeling that pitch obsession is deflecting attention from other areas of the creative process.

Fascism? Funny choice of word. I would say high standards or excellence. If your main job is as a vocalist wouldn't it be your priority?

Elvis Presley, Pavarotti, Marvin Gaye etc all worked at it and some played instruments too. We all have off days, but for a recorded take, wo!
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Re: Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby shufflebeat » Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:27 pm

Shambolic Charm wrote:Here we go again! Vocal Fascism . I blame X-factor for this modern obsession with pitch perfection.

I blame X Factor for many things but too high a bar for musical talent would be a new one. I don't suppose you're suggesting that but tuning hasn't really been a big issue for them on the past either.
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Re: Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby TheChorltonWheelie » Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:23 pm

shufflebeat wrote:
Shambolic Charm wrote:Here we go again! Vocal Fascism . I blame X-factor for this modern obsession with pitch perfection.

I blame X Factor for many things but too high a bar for musical talent would be a new one. I don't suppose you're suggesting that but tuning hasn't really been a big issue for them on the past either.

It has nothing to do with X-Factor: go to any Paul Carrack, Paul Rodgers, Frankie Miller, Michael McDonald/Bolton gig, these guys have been pitch-perfect for 30+ years.

What X-Factor has promoted is the truly, truly dreadful melissimo.
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Re: Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby Shambolic Charm » Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:27 pm

shufflebeat wrote:
Shambolic Charm wrote:Here we go again! Vocal Fascism . I blame X-factor for this modern obsession with pitch perfection.

I blame X Factor for many things but too high a bar for musical talent would be a new one. I don't suppose you're suggesting that but tuning hasn't really been a big issue for them on the past either.

It's not talent we're discussing here it's tuning and I'm not suggesting their tuning is perfect but that the judges harp on about it all the time 'bit pitchy' is the fave term, even when it isn't 'pitchy'.Dylan,JAgger, Lennon et al would never have made it through to boot camp!
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Re: Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby Shambolic Charm » Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:36 pm

TheChorltonWheelie wrote:
shufflebeat wrote:
Shambolic Charm wrote:Here we go again! Vocal Fascism . I blame X-factor for this modern obsession with pitch perfection.

I blame X Factor for many things but too high a bar for musical talent would be a new one. I don't suppose you're suggesting that but tuning hasn't really been a big issue for them on the past either.

It has nothing to do with X-Factor: go to any Paul Carrack, Paul Rodgers, Frankie Miller, Michael McDonald/Bolton gig, these guys have been pitch-perfect for 30+ years.
Yes but Dylan,Jagger,McCartney,Lydon, Bob Marley and Lou Reed,are all much much bigger and they ain't. My point is not that X-Factor is producing pitch perfect gods but that the Judges go on about pitch all the time. Now I hear kids at concert going "oooh that's a bit pitchy - a bit of training needed there" and it's bollocks, this is not classical music this music has it's roots in some genres where they didn't even know how to tune a guitar.
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Re: Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby shufflebeat » Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:14 pm

Shambolic Charm wrote:
...go on about pitch all the time. Now I hear kids at concert going "oooh that's a bit pitchy - a bit of training needed there" and it's bollocks, this is not classical music this music has it's roots in some genres where they didn't even know how to tune a guitar.

I take your point and it's obviously difficult to discuss different subjective truths in any kind of sensible way. For me, if you know what you're trying to do and you do it - that counts as pitch perfect.

I'll draw a discreet veil over your choice of singers while there's some consensus.

It's chewing gum - not fine curry or French cuisine. Personally, I find it bad for the digestion.
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Re: Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby Shambolic Charm » Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:38 pm

Dylan,Jagger,McCartney,Lydon, Bob Marley and Lou Reed chewing gum, surely not sir? I would have put Michael Bolton more in that category but as you say musical taste is subjective. To me the Artists I have mentioned are pioneers that have saved us from repeating the same formulas over and over. George Martin feels that the more progressive end of Popular music has moved things on from a rather stale classical genre, which is why he, as a classically trained musician moved more into working in that field.
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Re: Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby shufflebeat » Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:43 pm

Muchos apologos. That should have read...

Shambolic Charm wrote:
...go on about pitch all the time. Now I hear kids at concert going "oooh that's a bit pitchy - a bit of training needed there" and it's bollocks, this is not classical music this music has it's roots in some genres where they didn't even know how to tune a guitar.

It's chewing gum - not fine curry or French cuisine. Personally, I find it bad for the digestion.

I take your point and it's obviously difficult to discuss different subjective truths in any kind of sensible way. For me, if you know what you're trying to do and you do it - that counts as pitch perfect.

I'll draw a discreet veil over your choice of singers while there's some consensus.
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Re: Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby ConcertinaChap » Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:13 pm

Didn't make it to the 3'20" point, such a dull song. Dull, dull, dull, boring and desperately DULL.

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Re: Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby ken long » Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:24 pm

this music is irrelevant. stop giving this man exposure. good or bad.
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Re: Robbie - engineer should be fired, surely!

Postby Guest » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:45 am

ConcertinaChap wrote:Didn't make it to the 3'20" point, such a dull song. Dull, dull, dull, boring and desperately DULL.

CC

So did you like it, yes or no?
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