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Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby Trevor Johnson » Thu May 09, 2013 4:55 pm

Adobe has formally announced Creative Cloud in the last couple of days, which means for those applications (now, somewhat unoriginally renamed 'Apps') with the CC suffix, CS6 marks the end of the road for boxed sets with perpetual licenses. The Adobe website has a lot of information about this and I recommend reading CC 5 myths if you are interested.

It affects Adobe's main products (with the exception of Lightroom) and includes Audition, which will now be available as a CC product for a monthly subscription of £17.58. I have stuck at Audition 3.0, like many people, as subsequent versions have features missing, so I will not be going CC with Audition. However, I will have to consider CC for some of my other Adobe applications.

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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby James Perrett » Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 am

There's a massive backlash against this at various Audition oriented sites I've seen. I don't think that Audition has much of a future if it is only available like this.

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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby OneWorld » Fri May 10, 2013 11:43 am

Another example of a fantastic product - CoolEdit, morphing into bloated slothware. Soundforge used to be the defacto but I always preferred CoolEdit as I found it much faster, that appeal diminished over time with the subsequent 'improvements' And the cheap and cheerful version which was perfectly adequate for my needs was only about £30! Wish I could still buy it.
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby ConcertinaChap » Fri May 10, 2013 7:00 pm

Question typed into Adobe's chat service: My wife is a student at Bath Spa University. She would like to buy Photoshop CS 6 at the educational rate. However it is not clear how you do this since the online shop is now all about CC.

All representatives are actively assisting other customers. There are 1 customer(s) in line ahead of you. Thank you for your patience.

You are now chatting with Rona.

Rona: Hello! Welcome to Adobe Customer Service.

Rona: Hi Chris

Chris: Hi Rona.

Rona: I will be glad to check and help you with this issue.

Rona: May I please have your email address registered with Adobe?

Chris: I don't think we have an email address registered with you.

Rona: I am glad to inform you that you can still buy the CS 6

Chris: That is good to know. How do we go about it? There are no options obvious on the online store.

Rona: I will transfer you to our sales team, please be online while I transfer the chat.

Chris: OK, thanks.

Please wait while I transfer you to an operator at Adobe Sales.

All representatives are currently assisting others. Thanks for your patience. A representative will be with you shortly.

You are now chatting with 'Preston' at Adobe Sales.

Preston: Hi, may I have your first name please?

Chris: Chris.

Preston: Hello Chris.

Chris: Hi.

Preston: How can I assist you in purchasing Adobe Products today?

Chris: My wife is a student at Bath Spa University. She would like to buy Photoshop CS 6 at the educational rate and the previous rep said that was possible. However it is not clear how you do this since the online shop is now all about CC.

Preston: Chris, Let me help you with that information.

Chris: Great.

Preston: Yes, Photoshop CS6 has been replaced by Photoshop cc now.

Chris: I know but she doesn't want a cloud based solution, she wants the previous desktop package.

Preston: Since your wife is a student, I can get you an amazing software package which includes Photoshop cc and all the other applications at a great discount.

Chris: I know about the cc educational pricing (£15 a month, I believe) but she would much prefer a desktop package which never expires, furthermore she only wants Photoshop.

Preston: We have Creative Cloud student version which includes Photoshop cc, Lightroom 4 and all the other cc applications for just £15.88 per month.

Chris: OK, but I'll say again she would much prefer a desktop package which never expires, furthermore she only wants Photoshop.

Preston: Please give me a minute or two while I check this information for you.

Chris: My thanks.

Preston: Chris, thank you for being online.

Chris: You're welcome.

Preston: Chris, I checked and see that we don't have the CS6 available now, CS6 has been replaced by cc.

Preston: We don't have the option to purchase the full version of CS6 which has been replaced by cc, so I recommend that you purchase the Creative Cloud subscription where you will have access to all the cc applications for just £15.88 per month.

Chris: The problem is she doesn't want the continuing commitment the CC requires in order to keep using the software. Oh well, I guess she'll have to keep working with Photoshop 5.5 I'm afraid you have lost a customer.

Preston: Chris, I understand that however we don't have the CS6 available now, since it has been replaced by cc.

Chris: Thanks anyway. End of story, I guess.

Preston: Chris, please stay online while I check that for you.

Chris: Still here.

Chris: Still here.

Preston: Please stay online I am still checking that information for you.

Chris: Thanks.

Preston: Chris, I checked and see that we do have Photoshop CS6 available online, however we don't have the education version of Photoshop CS6.

Chris: So that would mean the full price of £600-odd. Well, I do appreciate the time you've put in to getting us this far, though I think it will prove too expensive for a student to manage. My thanks.
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby chris... » Fri May 10, 2013 9:01 pm

Not sure if relevant, but FWIW Amazon seem to have CS6 "student and teacher edition" for £417.

link.
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby OneWorld » Fri May 10, 2013 9:05 pm

Yes so much for the super fast, super organised efficient methods we have these days.

I booked a collection for a parcel with Yodel, he came he knocked he scarpered, by the time i got to the front door all I could see was his van vanishing into the distance.

He left a calling card, with Yodel logo at the top and a reference number, no surprises there then

Called the number, press button 1, button 2 etc etc etc an 10p a minute number by the way

Got to the part where I enter the reference number, the reply was "Sorry we do not have that number, please go to our website" and the line went dead

I went to the website, and entered the number - again - no such number, please call...yep the phone number given on the card.

I scoured the web site for an alternative number - found one, called it

Again 10p a minute, and I have to listen to a to lift music for a period of time almost equal to that of Wagner's Ring Cycle

After more But 1, But 2, etc An automated voice came on saying..."Please call (the original number)

I did, again, another 10p a minute gig and ended up with...."Please visit our web site"

Going round in circles obviously...an hour has passed by, by this time

Bt scouring the web I found another number, that one used if you want to become a delivery driver....how to slit your wrists might have been more useful!

Anyway, I managed to speak to a......person!!!!!!

She was quite apologetic, and gave me another number.

I called that number....10p/min...wait, wait, wait

Got to speak to a person who told I had been passed through to the wrong number, but to her credit she did patch me through to another number, and I waited, and I waited...more lift music

A person came on the line!!!!!

I ran through the saga yet again and gave the number written on the driver's Yodel calling card...."That is not a Yodel number" the lady said.

So I asked, "Could you explain how a Yodel van driver leaves a card clearly marked Yodel, and I have a label on the parcel downloaded from the Yodel website where I made the booking, is not a Yodel collection?"

"I don't know" she replied, "but you shouldn't have a Yodel card"

So I am now assuming when I book a Yodel collection, from a Yodel website giving a Yodel Packing Slip, it is not in fact a Yodel collection?

"Yes" she said. She asked me to hold on for a bit...cue the music....she came back on and said "That is a Parcel2Go reference number"

"But I booked with Yodel and have the relevant documentation" I reminded her

"Must be the computers" she said

"What can i do then" I asked, because my payment was made to Yodel. She advised going to parcel2Go website

I did, but as the booking was made with Yodel, parcel2Go had no record of my booking/payment and couldn't figure out how I had got a P2G reference number, "your problem is with Yodel" I was told.

By this time I had lost the will to live - I had got in from work at 6pm and here I was at 8:15 staring at a parcel the buyer was expecting the following day.

The following day I took it to the Post Office, which I had wanted to do in the first place but had been sent spam emails by Yodel telling what a brilliant reliable and inexpensive service, offering parcel collection, so I thought I would give them a try.


back to Adobe. I am so elated I looked at this thread. Earlier I had been opining about not being able to buy CoolEdit anymore. But thought, I'll do a search on't-net and found "Adobe Audition CS3 available for free download!!! Full program, all legit, no need for online activation etc, and 4 gig of loops thrown in, all free, from Adobe, and it is the familiar CoolEdit screen with additonal facilities, it works a treat!

There is a god after all :-)
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby ConcertinaChap » Sat May 11, 2013 11:10 am

chris... wrote:Not sure if relevant, but FWIW Amazon seem to have CS6 "student and teacher edition" for £417.

link.

In fact, that's what we did in the end, although we got the Photoshop only one for £217 so this had a happy ending. However looking there this morning they only have 13 copies left, and I guess once they're gone that's it.

I can see how software-as-a-service (the current buzzphrase) would be attractive to companies like Adobe and Microsoft, but I fail to see how it has anything to offer to the likes of us who can afford to push the boat out occasionally and buy a truly professional piece of software to support our activities. I suggest it's only a matter of time before Avid and perhaps other DAW vendors also adopt this model.

CC
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby Scramble » Sat May 11, 2013 11:12 am

> I suggest it's only a matter of time before Avid and perhaps other DAW vendors also adopt this model.

If they adopt the rule that you can no longer open one of their projects unless your have a current subscription then I think everyone will migrate to Reaper.
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby chris... » Sat May 11, 2013 11:31 am

In the case of Adobe Creative Cloud, how much runs in the "cloud", and how much is on your own PC ?

Is it mostly happening in the cloud - in effect like photoshop in a web-browser ?
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby ConcertinaChap » Sat May 11, 2013 11:36 am

So far as I can see the software is still on your machine and runs there. The cloud bit comes in for licensing and updates, plus Adobe give you a bit of storage Dropbox-style. You can use the software offline, but after 6 months offline it stops working.

Scramble wrote:If they adopt the rule that you can no longer open one of their projects unless your have a current subscription then I think everyone will migrate to Reaper.


Adobe seem to be expecting that people won't migrate to Paint Shop Pro / Gimp etc.

CC
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby desmond » Sat May 11, 2013 11:53 am

I really don't like the rent-to-use model, and when the ideas were first bounced around some years ago, I was very nervous about that possibility.

Adobe is the first big major player to effectively abandon perpetual licenses on their industry-standard software in favour of the rent-to-use model (it's not really "Cloud Computing" in the full sense of the term) and it's a bold move.

Adobe say they don't want to have to support two models, the perpetual license model and the cloud model, and have decided to focus on the cloud model - but they are not against revisiting this decision. My guess is that they are simply not making enough update revenue any more - the applications are fairly mature and at that stage in development the draws to need to upgrade from (say) Photoshop CS5 to CS6 are not exactly deal breakers. By moving to the cloud model, they get continual revenue from everyone, regardless of whether they would traditionally have upgraded or not.

The rest of the industry will be watching how this plays out with interest.

Personally, I will not use software that effectively holds my documents at ransom unless I pay out monthlies, although it *is* a good solution for some people.

My gut feeling is that at some point they will re-add the option to get perpetual licenses (or at least, some more traditional licensing in some form in addition to the cloud stuff, unless the cloud thing really doesn't work out at all).

Will be interesting to see how it shakes out...
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby OneWorld » Sat May 11, 2013 12:22 pm

That rent-an-app that the 'cloud' whatever that is in so much as what's the difference between the cloud and megauploadz I don't know. I have always been wary of the USA and its megalomanical tendencies and now it's being manifested in software.

But if ever there was a cue for opensource software writers to consolidate, then it is now. I am anticipating the cloudifying of MS Office with teir Office365 and the rip off Office 2013 where you can only install on one computer and if that computer goes pop you have to buy Office all over again and install it on the replacement computer - I don't think so.

I rebuild, change computers quite often, the thought of buying Office each time is out of the question, especially when the likes of LibreOffice are to a point compatible with Office, or are so far, I suppose MS would like to do something about that too.

I am almost evangelical about Cubase for example, have been using it since the days of the Atari but if they ever cloudified it, I think Steinberg will be seeing the Grim Reaper coming it's way.

And these Cloudophiles are so arrogant in their assumption that we are all on superfast urban broadband - I wish. I am on BT's fastest offering (Infinity)and pay very dearly for it, but it still burps and farts its way through a program I am watching on BBC iPlayer and the like. These technologies might work fine in the R&D labs but out in Nether Wallop they don't
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby narcoman » Sat May 11, 2013 12:30 pm

good post.
I quite like the CC model BUT it should have the desktop purchase as another option.
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby ConcertinaChap » Sat May 11, 2013 4:21 pm

narcoman wrote:I quite like the CC model

Just want to make it absolutely clear that that CC isn't this CC

OneWorld wrote:the 'cloud' whatever that is


The Cloud is nothing more than what, back in the day, we used to call Client-Server, only with some marketing sauce.

CC®
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby OneWorld » Sun May 12, 2013 1:39 am

Yes that's what I thought, looks like the Emporer's going about naked again!
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby awjoe » Sun May 12, 2013 4:44 am

If you're a production team that's involved in video and audio and photos and other stuff, then the subscription model's just fine - you have a budget and you get the tools you need for projects as long as you need them. Simple. But if you're all on yer onesie like me, then the subscription model's a disaster. I don't want any of the applications Adobe's offering other than Audition, so subscribing for just the one software will cost me way more than the price of the upgrades I've been paying up until now. What makes me just a lit bit bitter about this situation is that Audition 6, which I own, *just* about overtook previous versions of Audition in every way, and just when Version 7 promises to really deliver, Adobe's making it a tool for Big Boy With Budgets and leaving solo operators like me to fall back on Reaper. Or Studio One. Or...something that doesn't use the subscription model. Adobe's defeating piracy, playing to big customers like the Beeb, and leaving me behind, I think.
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby chris... » Sun May 12, 2013 10:28 am

ConcertinaChap wrote:The Cloud is nothing more than what, back in the day, we used to call Client-Server, only with some marketing sauce.
Yep.

However, in the specific case of this "Adobe Creative Cloud", it doesn't really seem to involve much of that. (Hence my question previously). Rather (as noted) it simply seems to be a change in the licensing model (plus some sharing type stuff you may or may not want to use).

So I guess they're essentially using the "cloud" buzzword as a way to dress up the licensing change.
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby desmond » Sun May 12, 2013 10:43 am

chris... wrote:So I guess they're essentially using the "cloud" buzzword as a way to dress up the licensing change.

It's a branding type thing, and it essentially has two parts to it - the first part of the Creative Cloud is the ability to upload, share, work collaboratively, download and access files all from the cloud, together with other materials, training, support etc.

The second part is the new licensing model, meaning you subscribe to the apps you want, download them from Adobe, and use them without restrictions. Updates are automatically pushed through, meaning you always have access to the latest versions while you have a subscription. And, although I'm not sure exactly how it works, if the apps don't check in over the net, and/or your subscription lapses, then they will stop working until you resubscribe.

In this form, the app/licensing thing isn't really anything particularly "Cloud-y" and I can't see it stopping piracy - apps are downloaded and installed on the local machine in the usual way and I expect the usual piracy activity will continue, at least for a while. If the new licensing model does well, then I can see more development with the technology in the future, together with faster and pervasive net access that might transform them into true Cloud applications - ie, rent-to-own and running the actual applications from Adobe's servers, rather than on the local machine. That will effectively prevent piracy, but is a way of for a whole bunch of practical reasons.

The real point of this is that many big, pro applications, like the DAWs we are all using are mature, meaning there are less and less reasons to continue to upgrade - particularly as many of us use more than one DAW/tool these days and can supplement the weaknesses of one with the strengths of another. If the rent-to-own licensing models does work, there isn't a big user backlash, and it does generate good revenue, then more software companies are going to go in that direction.

I've spent a heck of a lot in software, but I shudder to think how much I'd be *still* paying if I had to pay monthlies on all my stuff - perpetually, with no end, including fees for software end-of-lifed with no more development. And if I didn't pay, you'd have the lovely scenario of not knowing which applications you run from your apps folder which are going to require a credit card number before they will run...
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby ronmac » Sun May 12, 2013 11:04 am

awjoe wrote:If you're a production team that's involved in video and audio and photos and other stuff, then the subscription model's just fine - you have a budget and you get the tools you need for projects as long as you need them. Simple. But if you're all on yer onesie like me, then the subscription model's a disaster. I don't want any of the applications Adobe's offering other than Audition, so subscribing for just the one software will cost me way more than the price of the upgrades I've been paying up until now. What makes me just a lit bit bitter about this situation is that Audition 6, which I own, *just* about overtook previous versions of Audition in every way, and just when Version 7 promises to really deliver, Adobe's making it a tool for Big Boy With Budgets and leaving solo operators like me to fall back on Reaper. Or Studio One. Or...something that doesn't use the subscription model. Adobe's defeating piracy, playing to big customers like the Beeb, and leaving me behind, I think.

This pretty much captures my feelings. I am very disappointed that AA CS6 will be the end of the line, for me. From the published reports I have read the newer version would have been an instant upgrade, but I can't accept the new rental model.
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby Brisound » Sun May 12, 2013 11:05 am

I personally feel that this is the wrong move, plus I heard that Adobe will be removing their Fireworks line of product (which some of you may not care about, but it's pretty nice to me)

I'm not sure how this would affect people using Audition, but well there has been a massive trend for large software companies moving to pseudo-Cloud infrastructures, supposedly to combat piracy. Skeptical that it'd actually work, but last I heard Adobe makes most of their money from Enterprise licenses anyway.
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby Neokoenig » Sun May 12, 2013 12:40 pm

I'm on CC, and I like it, but then I've always been someone who uses a lot of adobe products (well, PS/Illustrator/INDD/DW/Premiere/ColdFusion/Edge stuff). If you do web design and graphic design AND video editing etc, it's a pretty convincing package.

I'd argue audition may get *more* users due to its inclusion (albeit, they maybe casual users). I needed a waveeditor for something the other day, and it was pretty convenient to be able to just download Audition (which I do like, I used to use CoolEditPro).

If anything, I think it will strengthen the competition - a lot of people want something 'like' Photoshop, but don't actually *need* Photoshop, but at the same time, corporate users will potentially get access to a higher number /level of apps. That's the target they're after - consistent subscription based income, rather than the 2-3 year flurry of money on a new release.
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby Gadget13769 » Mon May 13, 2013 6:41 pm

I was on CC for the past year - not bad at the ~£27 per month rate.

Then it almost doubled in price. Bye, bye CC...

It also annoyed the hell out of me. I need Photoshop on the road (very often in the middle of nowhere, without so much as a phone signal) and the 'apps' need very regular connection to the internet. You can use trial mode for a while, but once that expires, if you have no internet connection right there and then then Photoshop won't work, which left me high and dry a few times. And this is supposed to be pro software...
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby Kevin Nolan » Wed May 15, 2013 9:36 pm

I have to say I'm incredibly disappointed to hear of this development by Adobe. I've used Adobe Audition since version 1.0 on PC and recently moved over to the latest version on Mac. But I would be unwilling to pay a monthly / yearly license fee - it's too expensive for one thing. Looks like I'll have to drop this product.


However - the question now is - will all music software move in this direction? So the net result of all of this illegal downloading and pirating of software is - us legitimate users have to pay through the teeth for the rest of our lives for it.


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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby desmond » Wed May 15, 2013 9:41 pm

Kevin Nolan wrote:However - the question now is - will all music software move in this direction?

Put it this way - if Adobe's new policies prove successful, and revenue grows, then certainly other developers of mature, powerful applications will be much more open to the possibility...
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby 4TrackMadman » Wed May 15, 2013 10:01 pm

Microsoft is also going the same direction with Office.

I honestly don't see the savings. I still use my ancient version of CoolEdit and works fine on all the OSes I've thrown at it. I don't remember if there was even a registration, I think I just had to enter a serial which was provided by them.

Now Studio One, IK and few others sell you software that has validation schemes that allow only several installs, afterwards you're toast unless you pay up to have it "reinstated" or whatever the buzzword is.

Sounds like a fine time for hackers to get active with Adobe's junk model - now they can have the software to hack at a much cheaper price and only a monthly fee.

For my registered version on Dreamweaver 4, I guess it is end-of-the-line, I simply won't participate in this monthly subscription fleecing.
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby Gadget13769 » Thu May 16, 2013 9:39 am

4TrackMadman wrote:For my registered version on Dreamweaver 4, I guess it is end-of-the-line, I simply won't participate in this monthly subscription fleecing.

I'm back to Dreamweaver Studio MX for the same reason.
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby Zukan » Thu May 16, 2013 9:52 am

I have their Creative Suite bundle which cost me my remaining nut. I called them and got the 8 reps, 45 minutes of utter 'helping nonsense' rubbish and all I wanted to know was how much After Effects would cost as it wasn't in the bundle. They tried to get me to signup with CC. I asked, again, how much AE would be on its own. I was then 'moved' onto someone 'who could help me with that question' who then turned out to be an equally talented knob as the previous one. After 15 minutes of BS they eventually told me it would cost a grand to get AE. I said I already had the package and could I pay and upgrade price...guess what.....they got another rep to talk me into CC.

I think I bladed the rep and left the country at that point.
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby OneWorld » Thu May 16, 2013 3:33 pm

Gadget13769 wrote:
4TrackMadman wrote:For my registered version on Dreamweaver 4, I guess it is end-of-the-line, I simply won't participate in this monthly subscription fleecing.


I'm back to Dreamweaver Studio MX for the same reason.


Me too!

I can see a massive opening for the open source developers that offer viable alternatives and those that don't have their head in the clouds
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby Trevor Johnson » Thu May 16, 2013 10:14 pm

Before I began this post, I looked at Adobe's last financial statement (Q1 2013) and here is an interesting quote from Mark Garrett, executive vice president and chief financial officer, Adobe. “We're building a stronger, more predictable recurring revenue model which will drive higher long-term growth.” There are 479,000 CC subscribers at present, out of how many non-subscription, licensed, users?

I am currently re-evaluating all my Adobe products, because I don't want to be tied into proprietary file formats e.g. Illustrator, InDesign, Photoshop which may be difficult to access or edit in a few years time, thanks to the move to CC. Audition users are all right as the majority of file formats used are probably WAV. The problem is potentially not being able to access or edit your own files after hardware and/or OS changes, not an issue at the moment, but say in five years?

Talking to others, they are all re-evaluating their relationship with Adobe, which should alarm Adobe, because it is not just about the cost, which may be a secondary or tertiary issue, but the imposition of a wholly different relationship between the company and its users.

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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud

Postby Gadget13769 » Fri May 17, 2013 5:47 am

Trevor Johnson wrote:I am currently re-evaluating all my Adobe products, because I don't want to be tied into proprietary file formats e.g. Illustrator, InDesign, Photoshop which may be difficult to access or edit in a few years time...

Agreed.

Adobe have already controlled this to some degree in recent times anyway, by only allowing the latest versions of Photoshop to have the means to open the raw files of the latest cameras and having a poor relationship with Microsoft which still means there are no image previews for .PSD files natively within Windows.

However, the prospect of having no access at all to 'locked formats' in the future does worry me. I certainly think I at least need to spend time ensuring I have every one of my raw format images copied as a TIFF and / or JPEG.
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