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M-Audio Profire2626 or MOTU 828 Mk3

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M-Audio Profire2626 or MOTU 828 Mk3

Postby Kevin Nolan » Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:51 am

I'm wondering if anyone has any experience or insight into the differences between the M-Audio Profire 2626 and the MOTU 838 Mrk3 in terms of:

- Latency
- AD / DA quality
- Any other issues


Also - looking for 'gut feeling' or opinion on - is it likely we'll see a MOTU 828 Mk4 with Thunderbolt any time soon?

Thanks,
Kevin.
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Re: M-Audio Profire2626 or MOTU 828 Mk3

Postby iceman » Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:51 pm

ive always used motu stuff for several years now and really like it, never had a problem with any of the drivers or hardware always found it rock solid, i know a few people are down on motu i dunno why im very happy with them, i have an 828 mk 3 a motu 8 pre and a motu 24 i/o with the pci express card really happy with all of them, particularly like the way you can use the 828 as a live mixer and utilise the reverb and eq etc also all the i/o on it its a very flexible bit of kit imho
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Re: M-Audio Profire2626 or MOTU 828 Mk3

Postby Goddard » Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:01 am

See this post for some info:

http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/showf ... ost1046515

As MOTU are indicating that the 828Mk3 Hybrid works with Apple's TB-FW adapter, doubtful a new TB version will be forthcoming any time soon.
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Re: M-Audio Profire2626 or MOTU 828 Mk3

Postby Kevin Nolan » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:27 am

Thanks for the replies.

The spec's pointed to on PC_Music are difficult to follow and make decisions from. The one interesting point from them is that it seems that there are generic chipsets underpinning interfaces from multiple manufacturers - that is an initial surprise, but of course makes sense when you think about it. So would it be fair to say that those specs are "splitting hairs" a bit and that, for all interfaces in this price range, they all perform about the same?


Goddard - that is very interesting regarding the TB to Firewire adapter. Could you point to the source on that to read more about it?
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Re: M-Audio Profire2626 or MOTU 828 Mk3

Postby James Perrett » Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:10 pm

Kevin Nolan wrote:The one interesting point from them is that it seems that there are generic chipsets underpinning interfaces from multiple manufacturers - that is an initial surprise, but of course makes sense when you think about it.

This is probably the most important aspect of any Firewire interface. If you are stuck with a dodgy chipset (as I was with the old Focusrite Saffire Pro26) no amount of wonderful analogue electronics will help you make it work as the basic foundations are broken. Consequently - about the only Firewire chipset I would contemplate buying now is RME's own system. Everything I've read about it suggests that it is far superior to any Dice or Bridgeco solution which is what everyone else uses.

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Re: M-Audio Profire2626 or MOTU 828 Mk3

Postby Goddard » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:35 am

Kevin Nolan wrote:Thanks for the replies.

The spec's pointed to on PC_Music are difficult to follow and make decisions from. The one interesting point from them is that it seems that there are generic chipsets underpinning interfaces from multiple manufacturers - that is an initial surprise, but of course makes sense when you think about it. So would it be fair to say that those specs are "splitting hairs" a bit and that, for all interfaces in this price range, they all perform about the same?


Goddard - that is very interesting regarding the TB to Firewire adapter. Could you point to the source on that to read more about it?

Kevin, no personal experience I'm afraid, was sure I'd seen it announced in a banner splashed across the top of MOTU's site last visit, but looking again just now it's nowhere to be found. Hmm...

Anyway, here's a forum post from last year regarding another MOTU FW interface working with the TB-FW adapter:

http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/showf ... er=1005282

and a more recent one from a MOTU-centric forum:

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=54570

Still, might be wise to contact MOTU directly just to confirm first.
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Re: M-Audio Profire2626 or MOTU 828 Mk3

Postby Goddard » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:57 am

James Perrett wrote:
Kevin Nolan wrote:The one interesting point from them is that it seems that there are generic chipsets underpinning interfaces from multiple manufacturers - that is an initial surprise, but of course makes sense when you think about it.

This is probably the most important aspect of any Firewire interface. If you are stuck with a dodgy chipset (as I was with the old Focusrite Saffire Pro26) no amount of wonderful analogue electronics will help you make it work as the basic foundations are broken. Consequently - about the only Firewire chipset I would contemplate buying now is RME's own system. Everything I've read about it suggests that it is far superior to any Dice or Bridgeco solution which is what everyone else uses.

James.

Afaik, the Pro2626 (like other early Saffire models) used the original and now-discontinued Dice chip, as did the old TC Konnekt 24D. Blecch.

However, performance of interfaces adopting the later Dice II/Jr. chips is much improved with latest TC AT v4 driver as can be seen from the results in the "Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base" thread (linked-to earlier) for the Presonus Firestudio Mobile and Focusrite Saffire Pro 24, ranked nearly on par with RME's FW interfaces. So, in that regard RME's FW is not really what I would call "far superior".
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Re: M-Audio Profire2626 or MOTU 828 Mk3

Postby Kevin Nolan » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:24 pm

I'm quite inexperience on interfaces and based on the posts here went to the RME web site. There I see the Fireface UFX which on first impressions reads essentially about the same spec as the MOTU 828 Mk3. However - it's three times the price. Why is that? Is it the extra analogue inputs and perhaps better monitoring and preamps? In particular, might it's latency be far superior as is suggested here.


And - if better latency - is there a minimum latency that one should be considering if driving a lot of live instruments (synthesizers in my instance where it's likely that i'll have a lot of live MIDI tracks driving actual hardware during a session, as distinct to recording everything to audio?

Overall, the RME seems incredibly expensive; but I don't want to buy a MOTU828 if it turns out to be a dud for my application.

Thanks again,
Kevin.
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Re: M-Audio Profire2626 or MOTU 828 Mk3

Postby James Perrett » Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:50 pm

Goddard wrote:
Afaik, the Pro2626 (like other early Saffire models) used the original and now-discontinued Dice chip, as did the old TC Konnekt 24D. Blecch.


The original Saffire Pros and the M-Audio used the Bridgeco Bebob chipset.

Edit - just realised that I'm thinking of the M-Audio Profire Lightbridge rather than the Profire 2626.
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Re: M-Audio Profire2626 or MOTU 828 Mk3

Postby ninebynine » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:52 pm

I have owned a profire 2626 in the past and can vouch that it's an amazing interface for the money..... I would step out on a limb and say "best in class", but..... Since In Music (Numark) purchased M-Audio I saw the writing on the wall, it's a dead duck and I sold mine while it still have current drivers.

What gave the Profire spectacular performance was the fact the drivers were written in house by Avid rather than using the SDK driver provided by TC Applied Tech. There is NO WAY that In Music have the programmers that could maintain the custom drivers.

The other side of this is FireWire Vs USB, I'm and old school supporter of FireWire but I'm afraid that its days are severely limited. There are some USB interfaces that perform extremely well (RME from experience).

Thunderbolt Audio Interface? ...... Chances are you don't need one, unless you plan of using a huge number (100+) of I/O or DSP processors. If either of these are the case, there are already products available that fulfil these requirements.
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Re: M-Audio Profire2626 or MOTU 828 Mk3

Postby Kevin Nolan » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:34 pm

Thanks for the informative replies

@ninebynine - very interesting perspectives. Actually the only desire for TB is that i have an early 2011 MBP with TB and the USB ports already used up and just hoping to exploit the TB port if possible. Gives a little future proofing too ( hopefully!).

Finding this area a bit of a mine field - but at least there's lots of excellent choice!!


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Re: M-Audio Profire2626 or MOTU 828 Mk3

Postby Goddard » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:26 pm

James Perrett wrote:
Goddard wrote:
Afaik, the Pro2626 (like other early Saffire models) used the original and now-discontinued Dice chip, as did the old TC Konnekt 24D. Blecch.

The original Saffire Pros and the M-Audio used the Bridgeco Bebob chipset.

Edit - just realised that I'm thinking of the M-Audio Profire Lightbridge rather than the Profire 2626.

Erk, had a brain spasm myself and confused Focusrite's Saffire Pro 26IO with M-Audio's Profire 2626 actually under discussion here.

On his DAWbench site Vin/TAFKAT notes the various FW/USB chips used by different AI makers and points out that certain makers custom code their drivers rather than just bundling in their chip supplier's reference drivers:

http://dawbench.com/audio-int-lowlatency.htm
http://dawbench.com/audio-int-lowlatency2.htm

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Re: M-Audio Profire2626 or MOTU 828 Mk3

Postby Pete Kaine » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:01 am

Kevin Nolan wrote:
Overall, the RME seems incredibly expensive; but I don't want to buy a MOTU828 if it turns out to be a dud for my application.

The MOTU's are good, known for lots of I/O options and decent sound quality, the off the shelf controllers they use are known to be fiddly at times, but in general if you can setup a system that the interface agrees with then you should be pretty happy with the results you receive and they are really great recording solutions when the bugs are ironed out and I'd recommend them all day long for installs where the spec isn't going to be messed with.

The RME's on the other hand are reknown for being bomb proof. If I had to set up a system that was being tour'd night in/night out and kicked around by roadies for the duration and needed to be sure that the card/drivers wouldn't fall over at a critical moment then I'd only suggest the RME as the interface brand I'd stand behind. Tiny well written driver sets that still achieve the best latency around thanks to the custom controller solutions they design. The money goes on the R&D and continued support and whilst it stands out as expensive amongst a sea of budget solutions, I'd be amazed if you found anyone on here who's used a RME that has a bad thing to say about them.
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Re: M-Audio Profire2626 or MOTU 828 Mk3

Postby Goddard » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:58 pm

Kevin Nolan wrote:Goddard - that is very interesting regarding the TB to Firewire adapter. Could you point to the source on that to read more about it?


Kevin, had a memory spasm before, as it wasn't actually MOTU but rather Focusrite's website which displays a banner stating that their Saffire range of FW interfaces is compatible with Apple's TB-FW adapter (which probably explains why I couldn't relocate the info over on MOTU's site):

http://global.focusrite.com/firewire-audio-interfaces/saffire-pro-40

Just in case anyone is interested, more info on Focusrite's support pages:

http://global.focusrite.com/answerbase/saffire-firewire-inte...

http://global.focusrite.com/answerbase/will-the-apple-thunde...


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Re: M-Audio Profire2626 or MOTU 828 Mk3

Postby Kevin Nolan » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:17 pm

Thanks Goddard for the clarification and valuable pointers - I'll check out Focusrite too for sure.
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Re: M-Audio Profire2626 or MOTU 828 Mk3

Postby kierenjtox » Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:14 am

I have the 828Mk3 Hybrid.. it's USB too, which is the connectivity I use.

Firewire seems to be harder and harder to find on laptops, and soon PCs I would guess too.

The interface has been faultless by the way, and as mentioned the built-in mixing capability is pretty cool, useful for general routing etc too.
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