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Which DAW complements ProTools?

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Which DAW complements ProTools?

Postby DC-Choppah » Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:06 am

While I am upgrading my box to support ProTools 64-bit, it occurs to me that I should be inclusive of a second DAW. So which DAW is complementary to ProTools? I have to admit that I have not used any other but read about some of their features in the SoS pages. Logic sounds cool? But is that even possible on a PC?

So limited to PC-only, what is the most complementary DAW? Something really completely opposite?

I am open to all suggestions. Just want to make sure my new box can support it.

Thanks
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Re: Which DAW complements ProTools?

Postby molecular » Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:10 am

The basic raison d'etre of all logic and PT is pretty much the same, although the details are different... I think if you already have PT 9+ then you should look at either Propellorheads Reason or Ableton Live, both of which will actually change what you can do with your computer.
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Re: Which DAW complements ProTools?

Postby Ramirez » Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:16 am

Ableton Live came to my mind too. It really does take a different approach to the rest of the 'standard' DAWs. It's also bloody awesome.
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Re: Which DAW complements ProTools?

Postby Dynamic Mike » Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:05 am

I struggled to get my head around Ableton Live, which suggests it may be exactly what you're looking for. It was a lite version that came free with an interface so I didn't persevere with it (one new toy at a time please), but it's a different mindset to pro-tools/cubase et al.
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Re: Which DAW complements ProTools?

Postby Mixedup » Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:06 am

Well, what is it you feel is lacking in PT? If you want an affordable backup, then maybe learn Reaper. If you want something dedicated to composition (which for me personally is where PT falls down most) then maybe look at Cubase (Arranger Track, Chord Track, VST Expression etc) or Reason or FL Studio. Some seem to like Live for rapid demo creation... but like I said, what is it *you* feel is lacking in PT that makes you want another DAW?

And no, Logic hasn't run on PC (unless you count Hackintosh systems) since v5.5, which won't run on modern PCs.
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Re: Which DAW complements ProTools?

Postby Jack Ruston » Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:27 am

Totally depends why you want a second DAW. As said above the one that stands out as obviously providing something 'else' is LIVE. But you need to first assess what that would really contribute to what you do. It's a question only you can answer. If you're really just recording a lot of stuff and mixing it, there's nothing better than PT, and nothing that you can add by spending money on other DAWs. If you're the sort of person that does a lot of composition with loops and electronic instruments, sound manipulation etc etc then LIVE could certainly add something. You just have to ask yourself what YOU really do. Because it's not so cheap that you'd just think 'nevermind, just get it'.
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Re: Which DAW complements ProTools?

Postby Mixedup » Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:43 am

Jack Ruston wrote:If you're really just recording a lot of stuff and mixing it, there's nothing better than PT, and nothing that you can add by spending money on other DAWs.

On a Mac, that's right. But on a PC it would be nice to have something where the ADC was fully automatic and required no user-input; and some people would like a system that could work with UAD cards at buffer settings other than 512. But that's a whole different story; and something where the error codes that get thrown up are decipherable. (Sorry, I've had a bad PT morning, as you'll know if you read the thread I started this morning!)
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Re: Which DAW complements ProTools?

Postby Jack Ruston » Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:53 am

Yeah, I'm sorry to hear that. I'm afraid that none of that stuff sounds remotely familiar to me. I run an Octo card with my rig and it seems quite impervious to buffer size...never get any adc weirdness either. I saw your stuff about the Fat32 drive too. I did run PT on a PC for a while but the whole drive compatability thing was too much of a pain. I don't know what the issue is with your setup but it may well be a case of it just not being that happy on a PC. I guess Cubase or Nuendo would be a more stable choice on that platform.

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Re: Which DAW complements ProTools?

Postby Mixedup » Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:21 pm

No worries. I got there in the end! I can't help thinking that it's PT's performance and ability to integrate with other stuff on various PC setups that gives PCs a bit of a bad name in some pro-audio circles. C7 is working very nicely indeed on the same setup and I can pilot that blindfolded, so it's not a huge issue for me. But it is a shame, because if it were stable and didn't crap out so much I'd pick its workflow for mixing over any other DAW's. (I'd still pick Cubase over all else for composition with virtual instruments, though)
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Re: Which DAW complements ProTools?

Postby Jack Ruston » Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:58 pm

Well the vast majority of the professional PT user base are on macs, so in terms of testing and troubleshooting, I doubt there's much 'pressure' from the PC camp. But it'll be interesting to see what happens in the next 5 years with these new mac pros. They do not suit music recording and I think what we may well see is either a shift towards PC, OR a dedicated system supplied by Avid ($$$), OR the rise of Mac OS in Hackintosh form. Put it this way, I don't think 12 core mac pros are going to lose their value any time soon. Of course the expansion chassis is an option but people don't want hundreds of boxes and cables really. We'll see.

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Re: Which DAW complements ProTools?

Postby Hoopy Frood » Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:20 pm

molecular wrote:The basic raison d'etre of all logic and PT is pretty much the same, although the details are different... I think if you already have PT 9+ then you should look at either Propellorheads Reason or Ableton Live, both of which will actually change what you can do with your computer.

This is what I was going to say. I prefer Reason to Live, but either way you'll get something that operates in a completely different way to Pro Tools. If you want to manipulate loops, then Live would be more appropriate - if you like building vast modular virtual devices then Reason is a lot of fun. Either can be ReWired into Pro Tools, so you can treat them both as big sound modules if you want.
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Re: Which DAW complements ProTools?

Postby DC-Choppah » Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:47 am

I guess there are three things specifically that I wish I could do in ProTools.

1) Just sit down and create musical ideas. Not polished productions, but snippets that I can use later in a a real ProTools project. or some place to put down the whole song that I just got in my head and don't want to lose, or make lead sheets - without having to think like an engineer first.

2) Create new sounds from my own recorded sounds. In protools you have to use multiple audio tracks and put together layers and then run them into a sampler. I can do it, but I sort of dread it.

3) There is a specific feature in Logic where you can record using a flexible time. I really want that and it is impossible in ProTools. What I mean is, you can control the tempo of the cue mix that the performer hears WHILE he is recording. In an older thread someone thought that Reason might be able to do this too. Anybody know if Reason can do this? That might be a clincher for me.

I love working in ProTools, but I would rather start with it with my production hat on - after some of the creative stuff is done, the sound design is done, and maybe sometimes recording with some flexibility (beyond the click track) was done.

I also think of the DAW as just another musical instrument. So just the fact that it is different means I can use it to make music I otherwise wouldn't. But I don't need to learn another way to do what I can already do in ProTools.
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Re: Which DAW complements ProTools?

Postby molecular » Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:22 am

DC-Choppah wrote:
1) Just sit down and create musical ideas. Not polished productions, but snippets that I can use later in a a real ProTools project. or some place to put down the whole song that I just got in my head and don't want to lose, or make lead sheets - without having to think like an engineer first.

This depends on what kind of music you're making, I guess. I find pro tools fantastically easy to do this on, but I am generally working with guitar and vocal demos which I then stick some midi instruments over. The people I know who work in electronica ALL use Ableton Live, pretty much without exception.

DC-Choppah wrote:
2) Create new sounds from my own recorded sounds. In protools you have to use multiple audio tracks and put together layers and then run them into a sampler. I can do it, but I sort of dread it.

Agreed, to do this kind of thing in PT you need to have a third party plug-in e.g. kontakt. Reason is very good at it, I don't know about Live.

DC-Choppah wrote:
3) There is a specific feature in Logic where you can record using a flexible time. I really want that and it is impossible in ProTools. What I mean is, you can control the tempo of the cue mix that the performer hears WHILE he is recording. In an older thread someone thought that Reason might be able to do this too. Anybody know if Reason can do this? That might be a clincher for me.

Why do you want to do this? is it a way of finding the right tempo, or do you mean tracking a song that changes tempo? I haven't come across anything I wanted to do with tempos that I couldn't do in pro tools, but again it depends on the music - e.g. if you want to jam, and muck about with tempos, and record it all for reference, it sounds like a job for Live to me...

DC-Choppah wrote:
I also think of the DAW as just another musical instrument. So just the fact that it is different means I can use it to make music I otherwise wouldn't. But I don't need to learn another way to do what I can already do in ProTools.

If you want to keep PT as your main DAW for bringing it all together, I still think you should demo Live and Reason and possibly Kontakt, and you'll find one of them more suited to your kind of music...
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Re: Which DAW complements ProTools?

Postby DC-Choppah » Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:00 am

I am doing contemporary jazz, jazz fusion, standard jazz, funk, R&B, and orchestral stuff and easy listening stuff.

I guess my only beef is ticking in those chord symbols in ProToolsfor lead sheets. I can deal with it though.

Thanks for the tip on Kontakt for sound design. I am going to check it out. Maybe I don't need a whole other DAW for that, just another plugin.

Regarding my last point, it is really simple actually. I just want to record someone where they control the tempo, so they are not slaved to the click track. I would listen along as the engineer and tap in the tempo as they play so that they are not slaved to the click. Logic has this feature. But someone said Reason could do that do.? Any Help? Please just think of the cue mix as another performer who can stay in time with the lead performer who is performing and I would like the lead to control the tempo as we build up our music rather than the click track. The inspiration of the performer can be lost if she cannot control the tempo. This is a subtle thing really, just less stress on the performer. Ideally , they never know it happened = things just stayed in synch.
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