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My problem/dilemma...

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My problem/dilemma...

Postby Sibelius19 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:15 pm

I have a degree in psychology,
I love music.
I'm a customer care executive for a compnay.
I love to write music.
I think about music all the time.
I love to create sounds.

What do I do?
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Re: My problem/dilemma...

Postby Soundseed » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:29 pm

Sibelius19 wrote:I have a degree in psychology,
I love music.
I'm a customer care executive for a compnay.
I love to write music.
I think about music all the time.
I love to create sounds.

What do I do?

Write a musical?
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Re: My problem/dilemma...

Postby Phil O » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:05 pm

I think you know the answer you'll get from most here is - keep the day job and do music as a sideline / hobby.
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Re: My problem/dilemma...

Postby Soundseed » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:19 pm

Phil O wrote:I think you know the answer you'll get from most here is - keep the day job and do music as a sideline / hobby.

Sensible advice.

I don't know why, but with the phrasing of the OP I just see this as being a cross between The Office and Joseph and his Amazing Technicolour Dreamcoat.
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Re: My problem/dilemma...

Postby Scramble » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:46 pm

>What do I do?

I give up. What's the answer? You strangle animals?
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Re: My problem/dilemma...

Postby Mike Stranks » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:29 pm


O/P: have a careful read through THIS thread from this very forum.

The reason that this is a sticky is that this question comes up very many times in slightly different forms and, as has already been said, the advice is always the same.

And just to emphasise the point... much of what's in that thread is from people 'in the biz'(not me!) who really do know what they're talking about. :)
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Re: My problem/dilemma...

Postby OneWorld » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:35 pm

Sibelius19 wrote:I have a degree in psychology

Be more remarkable had you written - "I do NOT have a psychology degree - everyone and his dog has one of those lol

Sibelius19 wrote:
I'm a customer care executive for a 'compnay'.

Oops! the devil is in the detail as they say, certainly applies to music
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Re: My problem/dilemma...

Postby Sibelius19 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:00 pm

yeah, psychology is quite broad and bland I might add. I am coming to believe more and more what William James said when he got out of psychology --"Psychology is the elaboration of the obvious.". Ok, I know there are some exciting new discoveries they're probably making in experimental psychology. That's besides the point.
So, I've played music since I can remember and I have always been talented with composing music on the spot as well as learning to play anything I hear. i do lack site reading ability, and only know elementary music theory. I have written hundreds of pieces (though not notated). Oh, there was a day when I messed around with Finale and would write a lot of short little pieces by notatin. But now that I've discovered VST, SFZ, Kontakt 5, Reason, and so on and so on, I have found it less motivating to painstakingly notate music on a page, or less painstakingly on Finale, Sibelius or other notation software. So now I've been turning to the idea of maybe becoming a sound designer in some capacity and composing music as well. I love it! it's a passion of mine. If I'm not spending time with my wife I'm recordind sound, modifying sound and just plain having fun with sound!
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Re: My problem/dilemma...

Postby johnny h » Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:02 pm

Sibelius19 wrote:I have a degree in psychology,
I love music.
I'm a customer care executive for a compnay.
I love to write music.
I think about music all the time.
I love to create sounds.

What do I do?

Make music and if you're good enough you can quit your job.
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Re: My problem/dilemma...

Postby Scramble » Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:00 pm

> If I'm not spending time with my wife I'm recordind sound, modifying sound and just plain having fun with sound!

I don't understand. When do you have time to strangle animals with all this going on?
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Re: My problem/dilemma...

Postby blue manga » Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:59 pm

Scramble wrote:>What do I do?

I give up. What's the answer? You strangle animals?


Bite the heads of the rats..
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Re: My problem/dilemma...

Postby Sibelius19 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:31 pm

I don't understand the animal obsession, but I now that you mention it, I used to work as a Vet Tech :ooo: but no strangling involved.
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Re: My problem/dilemma...

Postby The Red Bladder » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:38 pm

As psychologists are devoted and deluded followers of Onan, you should fit right in, in the music scene!
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Re: My problem/dilemma...

Postby shufflebeat » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:02 am

I can't claim much of an ejercation but I play with some dead clever people with proper jobs in a variety of areas. The happiest and most balanced seem to be those who have the security of a regular income which does focus the mind when it comes to time management but in return it gives them the confidence to pick and choose their gigs in a way that others sometimes struggle and lose their way.
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Re: My problem/dilemma...

Postby Exalted Wombat » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:04 am

Sibelius19 wrote:I have a degree in psychology,
I love music.
I'm a customer care executive for a compnay.
I love to write music.
I think about music all the time.
I love to create sounds.

What do I do?

Continue with your music-making hobby. Accept any money-making opportunities connected with music. When it looks like there are enough of them to support you, go with it!
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You don't have to write songs. The world doesn't want you to write songs. It would probably prefer it if you didn't. So write songs if you want to. Otherwise, dont. Go fishing instead.


Re: My problem/dilemma...

Postby Skerrick » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:40 am

Sibelius19 wrote:I have a degree in psychology,
I love music.
I'm a customer care executive for a compnay.
I love to write music.
I think about music all the time.
I love to create sounds.

What do I do?

similar situation over here, i work in sales, i listen to/love music every second im awake haha!
i think about it all the time, all i can do is keep slaving away and producing in my spare time till i hit a standard where i can generate revenue from my work...
its a tough road hahaha! i can see myself being an unsuccessful musician for the rest of my life haha! it wont stop me though, hopefully ill stumble upon a great opportunity, i can only wish the same for you.
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Re: My problem/dilemma...

Postby trevorscott33 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:46 am

Phil O wrote:I think you know the answer you'll get from most here is - keep the day job and do music as a sideline / hobby.
i agree, in my life so far when something i do for fun becomes 'work' then the fun usually stops. writing tunes when you can take as long as you like, stop and put it aside and go back to it as and when the muse takes you is fun, especially when the day job pays the bills!
on the other hand, when the tune doesn't feel right, needs that little bit extra that you can't put your finger on and the deadline is approaching fast, then that is when the fun would stop. maybe that is just me though :smirk:. they say that some people work better under pressure :crazy:
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Re: My problem/dilemma...

Postby The Elf » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:14 am

I only went full time in audio when I was earning sufficient income from it to make it a pleasure rather than a worry. Doing something you love is all well and good, but when the bailiffs are at the door and you're wondering where the next meal is coming from it's hard to enjoy being creative.
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Re: My problem/dilemma...

Postby GlynB » Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:31 pm

Sibelius19 wrote:I have a degree in psychology,
I love music.
I'm a customer care executive for a compnay.
I love to write music.
I think about music all the time.
I love to create sounds.

What do I do?

You call on your extensive network of contacts working in the music business, gain commissions, and climb onboard, then give up the day job.

You do have an extensive network of contacts in place right?
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Re: My problem/dilemma...

Postby Exalted Wombat » Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:14 pm

Sibelius19 wrote:
So, I've played music since I can remember and I have always been talented with composing music on the spot as well as learning to play anything I hear. i do lack site reading ability, and only know elementary music theory. I have written hundreds of pieces (though not notated). Oh, there was a day when I messed around with Finale and would write a lot of short little pieces by notatin. But now that I've discovered VST, SFZ, Kontakt 5, Reason, and so on and so on, I have found it less motivating to painstakingly notate music on a page, or less painstakingly on Finale, Sibelius or other notation software. So now I've been turning to the idea of maybe becoming a sound designer in some capacity and composing music as well. I love it! it's a passion of mine. If I'm not spending time with my wife I'm recordind sound, modifying sound and just plain having fun with sound!

OK, so you're not aiming to be a USEFUL musician, otherwise you'd have picked up the required skills by now. You like playing with your computer. How do you see this paying the rent?
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You don't have to write songs. The world doesn't want you to write songs. It would probably prefer it if you didn't. So write songs if you want to. Otherwise, dont. Go fishing instead.


Re: My problem/dilemma...

Postby Sibelius19 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:55 am

I appreciate everyone's input. I am certain that I want to keep writing and playing, and ofcourse if I find opportunities to put my talents to use, then I will go for it. For now, I can't afford to drop everything and just do music. I feel like it's really more who you know than what you know in the music industry. But building a portfolio and getting it out there is probably a good way to make connections.
What does it mean to be 'useful' or 'useless'? And as far as being a musician, I am just fine (in my opinion) with that. I have played guitar for 20 years, piano for 15 and drums and bass for 10. I just can't read music very quickly. Just as an example, I figured out Lizst' Consolation #3 without looking at any music notation. And I did actually notate Movement 2 of Bach's Italian Concerto in F Major because of a bet from a friend that I couldn't do it. So, I do have some skills, however meager. The only reason I have not been more prolific in this respect is due to a lack of time. This has nothing to do with my musicianship, or really even my musical knowledge.
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Re: My problem/dilemma...

Postby narcoman » Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:12 am

It's who you know, what you know, when you know and everything else.

For anyone, really, it becomes obvious if and when you can make the jump into music full time.
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Re: My problem/dilemma...

Postby Exalted Wombat » Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:19 pm

Sibelius19 wrote:
What does it mean to be 'useful' or 'useless'?

I meant "useful" in an employment sense. Is your skill-set one that people want to pay for? How many calls a week do you get for paid work?
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You don't have to write songs. The world doesn't want you to write songs. It would probably prefer it if you didn't. So write songs if you want to. Otherwise, dont. Go fishing instead.


Re: My problem/dilemma...

Postby Sibelius19 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:12 pm

As of now I have not been active in persuing a music career. I guess I can answer that question when I start trying to find gigs lol
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Re: My problem/dilemma...

Postby Exalted Wombat » Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:31 pm

Sibelius19 wrote:As of now I have not been active in persuing a music career. I guess I can answer that question when I start trying to find gigs lol

Great! Keep your day job, see what gigs you can find. You'll soon discover if it adds up to a living.

You'll forgive me for being dubious. The idea of someone, good enough to consider going pro, not being highly in demand on the semi-pro scene already just doesn't ring true. But please prove me wrong! Best of luck.
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You don't have to write songs. The world doesn't want you to write songs. It would probably prefer it if you didn't. So write songs if you want to. Otherwise, dont. Go fishing instead.


Re: My problem/dilemma...

Postby Soundseed » Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:11 am

Sibelius19 wrote:As of now I have not been active in persuing a music career. I guess I can answer that question when I start trying to find gigs lol

The fact that you can sit in front of a computer, like what you hear, and think you might be able to turn it into a more fulfilling existence than customer care is nothing more than a delusion which arises from the designed ease with which you made the music. It is like discovering that you have a pair of legs, and deducing that you'll be on the starting blocks next to Mo Farrah in the 5000 metres at the next olympics.

However, if you actually have some talent, a huge amount of stamina, are driven to a degree beyond obsession, look and sound the part, have some charisma, plus psychologically resilient to the point of being impervious to failure, poverty, and rejection, then you should hand in your notice tomorrow, gamble everything and go for it. You're probably completely screwed, but who knows?

I saw Ben Howard play to a dozen or so people in 2009. They talked over his performance and showed no appreciation for the fact he was pretty entertaining, and had travelled 500 miles for £30 and a single CD sale. The ignorant audience are doubtless still doing the same humdrum routine things they were back in 2009. Can't say that of Mr Howard.
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Re: My problem/dilemma...

Postby Sibelius19 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:15 pm

I haved worked hard when I started learning guitar when I was 12. It took me so much time and practice. It took me 6 hours to figure out the solo to Light My Fire (Robby C.) when I was 14. I worked at it and worked at it, and I could play an equivelant piece during the first listen, while I am listening to it --ofcourse there would be some mistakes and delay in the playing. I've done this same thing which drums and piano. I really need to work on Music Theory and Sight reading. That's what I have been focusing on lately. Not to compare myself strictly with such great composers, but my style of composition as of now is more like Schoenberg or Stravinsky, or even Debussy's revolutionary stuff --it's based on assertion and not on convention.
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Re: My problem/dilemma...

Postby Sibelius19 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:59 pm

"The fact that you can sit in front of a computer, like what you hear, and think you might be able to turn it into a more fulfilling existence than customer care is nothing more than a delusion which arises from the designed ease with which you made the music. It is like discovering that you have a pair of legs, and deducing that you'll be on the starting blocks next to Mo Farrah in the 5000 metres at the next olympics."

true, true, this could be accurate in some ways. The dilemna is that I have been born with a gift. I remember when I was 5 years old sitting at a piano and playing children's piano pieces with no lessons or training whatsoever (granted, it was at a 1-note-at-a-time fashion). my grandpa was astonished. It may be more than a delusion. But you know what they say? If you don't use it you lose it. I don't want to lose it! Even if there is the smallest chance I can do great things with music. I want to hold on to that hope. Right now I can't afford to think only about myself. Sure, Mozart composed music from the age of 4, but Stravinsky didn't really start till his mid 20's. Okay, nothing more about Stravinsky.
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Re: My problem/dilemma...

Postby mpostor » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:57 am

Being born with a gift for playing an instrument is one thing. Being able to turn that gift into something you can earn a living at is another. I have a friend who has grade 8 piano, perfect pitch, etc, etc. He's a motorcycle mechanic. That's all he ever wanted to do. Mind you, he's great fun at family parties when someone whips out a keyboard or piano from a corner.

If your day job pays well enough, it should allow you to fund your passion for music.
If it pays enough to do that, you may find it hard quitting and letting music pay for the roof over your head, car insurance, etc, as well as funding itself.

With a few exceptions, all the 'professional' musicians I know are not all that well off. They all teach their instrument during the day and gig by night. They rent their accomodation and drive 'older' cars, some with repair issues. The exceptions are old rockers who have been in the business since the 70's and who made their fortunes before MP3s and file sharing burst the financial bubble.

By contrast, I am friends with a slew of non-professional musicians who play at pro level. They are employed as company directors, management consultants, stockbrokers, etc. They work during the day and gig in theatres at the weekend (yes, theatres, not pubs). They all have their own houses, families, nice cars and nice, new instruments and gadgets. I am in that bracket as well. I earn enough in my day job to cover my living expenses and to afford some nice toys on the side. I make music because I want to, not because I have to. I do the gigs I choose to do. Getting paid brings in some pocket money, but I know I couldn't afford to live on just that.
Some gigs for friends I'll do for expenses only as they're so much fun. There's one outfit I work with that covers their expenses with the gig money and any profit goes into developing their lighting and sound rig, promotion, etc. It works for them because no-one is going to lose their house if the gig doesn't cover any more than petrol and guitar strings.

Would I like to turn pro? Probably not. I'm too comfortable knowing where my money is coming from and enjoying music as a hobby. If it became my job, what would I do for fun?
Having seen the way my 'pro' friends exist, I don't think I have the necessary personality traits to exist like that. You need a thick skin, and you need to be mercenary. I've known guys drop a gig paying £50 for one paying £60.

Yours, and others mileage may vary. Some of my friends are very stereotypical of the struggling pro musician.
Don't let my comments sway you. If you really want to do it, go for it. Get out there. Get to know people. Get them to know you. It's surprising where work can come from just because someone knows you exist.

HTH.

Stu.
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Re: My problem/dilemma...

Postby Sibelius19 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:58 pm

Wise words indeed Mposter. Thank you for the great advice and encouragement.

Last night I had an interesting experience. My wife and I were invited by some Church members to come over and have dinner. They all play instruments, and the wife has some kind of PHD in music. They asked me to play the guitar for them. They handed me an acoustic guitar and I started playing. They were astonished and laughed at me and said "there is no question you need to do music". She said that there is no way she could ever do what I do even though she has a degree. I have noticed this pattern elsewhere. When I was 15 I was playing piano at a lounge at a University. A composition major came up to me and asked "did you write that?" I said "yes." He then said he could never dream to write anything like it. When I worked for a Vet there was a virtuoso musician who was studying for his PHD in music. He heard a classical music piece I wrote and recorded with an Alesis Midi Sound bank hooked up through a cheap Yamaha keyboard. He asked "is that Sibelius?" He was joking but as a way of complimenting me. Also said that he could never think of writing music like that. I ended up starting a band with him for a brief amount of time, but we got too busy with other stuff.
Then there was my Introduction to music composition teacher (who played Cello) who told me I should talk with the head of the music department (Professor Gillingham) to try and get degree in music composition (granted, this was in my 4th year of my Psych Degree).

So, these stories don't prove anything. They're nice little anecdotes. They just show that there are a lot of people who think I should do music, not just family. LOL. Moms always think you're the best at whatever you do or like to do.
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