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Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby Kevin Nolan » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:52 pm

Anyone know of 0.5 or 1TB Thunderbolt SSD's for sale?

I've been searching but there don't seem to be any available. Lacie have been saying for ages they'd release one this summer but it never materialised.

I don;t suppose there are any but just thought I'd ask to see if anyone has some pointers.

FYI - I bought a MBP wioth 512 SSD and there's no going back. Its jaw-droppingly fast and impressive, hence the desire for thunderboalt SSD to install the rest of my libraries.

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Re: Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby . . . Delete This User . . . » Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:22 am

external enclosure with WD velociraptors would be marginally more cost effective, and still jaw droppingly fast.....

even the old raptors were bloody quick, (tracking 64 tracks of 24/48 audio at maybe 8-10% disk usage) the velociraptor is very fast indeed, and some of the new hybrid SSD+Platter drives are performing really well as well, don;t get suckered in to paying for SSD when you don;t need to



they WILL get cheaper, and better.... in the mean time, save some pennies..... there are ways of getting serious performance like that for a lot less money....
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Re: Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby . . . Delete This User . . . » Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:57 am

(bare drive price comparison by the way, intel SSD 600GB £850 ish, WD 600GB Velociraptor, £155 ish. )


add that up a couple of times to be big enough for a few decent libraries, and you could buy another mac with the difference...
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Re: Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby thedomus » Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:53 am

Yeah, its taking a while for TB to get going... i'm thinking by the time the 2nd round of MBPro's are released with TB we might actually have some peripherals!!!

BTW I wouldn't consider WD's Velociraptors as "jaw droppingly fast" at 145MBs sequential (see here) when 3g OWC SSD's achieve 260+MBs and their new 6G SSD's 450+MBs.
I agree they are still very expensive for the largest capacities but the prices are steadily dropping, you can buy OWC 480GB for £550 at the moment, better than a grand a year ago!
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Re: Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby Kevin Nolan » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:53 am

thedomus wrote:Yeah, its taking a while for TB to get going... i'm thinking by the time the 2nd round of MBPro's are released with TB we might actually have some peripherals!!!


You're suggesting that TB peripherals might not even be available till next year somettime? That suggests to me that there's no take up on TB now. Might it be a failing protocal / interface, for the longterm? I ask that because I'm surprised that there aren't already a plethora of interfaces and HDs already - or even announcments, from the likes of hardware audio interface manufacturers, UA and the like - but there's very little if any activity on that front - it's as if Thunderbolt isn't a priority.

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Re: Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby . . . Delete This User . . . » Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:00 am

it's taking a while for product to come to market, but a number of external enclosures and raid arrays have been announced, and several interface manufacturers have said they're looking in to it and product is on the drawing board.



do the maths.

at 600GB , you can currently buy 5 velociraptors for one decent SSD.


2 velociraptors out strips 1 SSD in some areas.,..

so buying 4 of them gets you 4 times the space, and maybe two to three times the performance.

and still comes in cheaper.


and these new hybrid drives are well worth looking at....
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Re: Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby ken long » Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:14 am

Kevin Nolan wrote: I'm surprised that there aren't already a plethora of interfaces and HDs already - or even announcments, from the likes of hardware audio interface manufacturers, UA and the like - but there's very little if any activity on that front - it's as if Thunderbolt isn't a priority.

You have to wait for these companies to design and re-tool. Expect some interfaces in the coming year.
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Re: Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby Will_m » Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:04 pm

Off duty BBQ lighter AKA Idris wrote:
at 600GB , you can currently buy 5 velociraptors for one decent SSD.


2 velociraptors out strips 1 SSD in some areas.,..

so buying 4 of them gets you 4 times the space, and maybe two to three times the performance.

and still comes in cheaper.

I would consider the noise that 4 velocirapotors will create though, I've got one of the hybrid drives and they are pretty good but they only really improve speed for a small section of commonly used data so they make a good boot drive but I'm not sure for an audio drive whether you would see the benefit.
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Re: Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby Jumpeyspyder » Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:26 pm

I'm not sure if its possible, but it might be worth checking if you can swap the drives of a Promise Pegasus to SSDs

Four smaller SSDs may be cheaper than 1 large one
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Re: Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby thedomus » Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:44 pm

I'm sure LaCie will announce them soon!
You could buy the Pegasus R4 and put 4 x Velociraptors in there, as suggested earlier, but good luck with the overall noise & cost...the R4's are not cheap!

I've put a OWC Datadoubler with SSD inside my MBPro instead of the Superdrive for my core sample libraries, works a treat & silent! (n.b. my warranty is now invalid!)

I hope more TB gear to be announced & maybe arrive in the autumn....
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Re: Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby onesecondglance » Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:58 pm

thedomus wrote:You could buy the Pegasus R4 and put 4 x Velociraptors in there, as suggested earlier, but good luck with the overall noise & cost...the R4's are not cheap!

i think if you can afford that setup you can afford a machine room to put it in...
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Re: Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby . . . Delete This User . . . » Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:32 pm

or at least a broom cupboard lined with acoustic foam.


and the velociraptor isn't THAT noisy considering SOME drives out there, despite being a 10k platter.

but yes, i would normally place raid arrays and jbod enclosures out of the way , so noise is irrelevant,...


not sure the pegasus is shipping yet either..... i've seen it advertised for sale, but no-one has any stock.
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Re: Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby Kevin Nolan » Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:48 pm

Thanks for the replys and advice on other alternatives.

But - for me, there's no going back. It's SSD form here on in. Even if I have to pay more (and I'm not wealthy) or wait longer, I'll wait for Thunderbolt SSD's. The reason - I think SSDs are the greatest thing since sliced bread. It is simply stunning. No noise, no moving parts; stupifyingly fast (when I click the iTunes icon, the application is running fully by the time I've lift myfinger off the mouse pad!).

I have been rediculously slow (and incredibly sceptical) about upgrading my old computers but took the plunge this summer on the top of the line MBP 17" with SSD; and I still can't believe how fast (and quiet) it is.

So I'll live without installing my Eastwest Libraries and recently arrived Komplete 8 Ultimate until SSDs are available - as it stands I have a load of libraries on the machine, and though still only getting used to it, even on this one drive Logic Pro runs without blinking.

Anyway - I seriously recommend SSDs, and despite my grievance that Thunderbolt is not a standard, it, combined with SSDs, should be an outstanding combination.

There's no going back to old technology in my setup!! So I hope manufacturers are close to some releases.


As an aside - do any of you think UAD will release their hardware over Thunderbolt?

Cheers,
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Re: Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby chris... » Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:29 pm

Kevin Nolan wrote:stupifyingly fast

Very little of what I do is disk bound, so SSD wouldn't make much difference for me.

I leave stuff running, so rarely have to wait at all for things to start.

I do have plenty RAM, which helps alot in terms of OSX not having to touch the disk.
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Re: Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby Aftertouch » Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:26 pm

TB will not add much in this usage scenario (except inevitable initial inflated cost) over existing connectivity options. SSD drives will not miraculously drop in prices when TB devices begin to appear. In fact, you can bet your last pound that the first devices to surface using TB will have a premium attached.

The suggestion of fitting one or more SSD's inside of an enclosure has many benefits.

1. You get to choose the drive(s)

2. Disk + enclosure options are normally cheaper

3. Hard drive manufacturers normally offer a 3 or 5 year warranty in drives bought retail, but only 12 months for drives bundled as part of a system

4. Existing systems are tried and tested. I wounldn't be buying the first round of TB devices.

Qnap have a great range of enclosures, from single drive, to 12 drive RAID boxes. I'd be getting something like that attached via iSCSI.
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Re: Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby Tui » Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:00 pm

If you want speed, just stick the SSDs into FW800 enclosures. That should be plenty fast, too. It's not the Thunderbolt interface that ultimately determines speed, but the internal bus of the computer.

Other than that, yeah, SSDs are amazing. I replaced the System drive in my Mac Pro with an OWC SSD. Once you've experienced apps load instantaneously, you don't want to go back.
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Re: Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby chris... » Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:07 pm

Tui wrote: Once you've experienced apps load instantaneously, you don't want to go back.

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but it's probably weeks since I last waited for an app to load.

My apps just keep on running

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Re: Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby thedomus » Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:23 am

I'm sure they do!
I think where the SSD becomes more useful is loading those large orchestral sample libraries e.t.c. into Kontakt or Play, or Omnisphere load times. If you are switching between cues & projects several times a day and your not a Vienna Ensemble user the SSD has a satisfying quality to it... whether its worth the extra mulah is subjective!
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Re: Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby Mr Spanky » Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:39 am

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Re: Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby Kevin Nolan » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:21 am




That page has been like that, without change, since late spring / early summer. It says available this summer just gone so that fact that they haven't released suggests technical problems.


Regarding SSD's in firewire and all the other variants suggested - I'm sure they work fine - but I've decided to make a clean break from all earlier technologies that I can - if Thunderbolt is the future - then surely it's the way to go for the likes of me with a new computer and who can afford to wait a few months (no critical deadlines right now)- although my audio interface uses the Firewire interface in any case.

Re. leaving applications running - I use theMBP as a single computer across 3 aspects of my workin life so that's not an option. I know I paid over the odds for what will become cheaper technology - but as I and others have said - SSD technology is astounding. I still can't believe how 'right' everything feels in using this computer. Absolutely amazing.


So while I've no experience of comparing the various other HD combinations that no doubt work exceedingly well - I feel personally that it is only about now that native DAW solutions can work seamlessly on a laptop because of these amazing new technologies - quad i7 processors, 64bit, SSD and Thunderbolt... (though accept I'm not actually using Thunderbolkt for anything right now). So it's a broad decision approach for me - to avail of the latest and hopefully fastest technologies, for the future, and for seamless operation. I've had too many false dawns in computing solutions that just did not work sufficiently for me (I have a lot of external hardware and also want to use CPU intensive stuff like IRCAM Software and Flux IRCAM Tools (especially the SPAT ambisonic spatialization tool)), as well as what are becomign rediculously large sample libraries.



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Re: Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby Richie Royale » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:49 am

Out of interest what benefits do SSD provide, aside to the opening of the programme in an instant, what operational benefits are provided (excluding no moving parts/noise)? Does it allow huge track counts or sample streaming?
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Re: Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby Tui » Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:10 am

chris... wrote:
Sorry to sound like a broken record, but..

chris... wrote:
Sorry to sound like a broken record, but..

chris... wrote:
Sorry to sound like a broken record, but..

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Re: Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby Kevin Nolan » Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:01 am

Tui -

You are correct. I'm the guilty party of turning my own threrad into a very over worked discussion. I really did post to see if anyone has any pointers to existing Tuhnderbolt SSDs

Out or respect to Richie - I honestly don't have prior experience to compare with - I haven't traditionally pushed my computers except in the MIDI track sense - but all I'll cunclude with (and then shut up on the matter) is that this current gerneation of computers, overall is outstanding. I happen to have an SSD installed and the computer is working exceptionally well. As said before, it all just works and feel sright for me - currently up to midsized projects (quite preliminary however) but I'm not worried about it falling over - it's just delivering when I ask it to - whether its the SSDs or just tha I've been out of date and all the components togehter make for a great experience I really don't know. All I can say is that the future for music computing is very bright!!

I'll zip it on the general discussion and only post back if and when I come across released Thunderbolt products (though no doubt they'll be hop topic here as and when that happens).
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Re: Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby Richie Royale » Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:38 am

Thanks Kevin, Both SSD and Thunderbolt are new technologies, the former being prohibitively expensive for most people at present, so it is hard to tell how much advantage it offers over conventional HDs or even hybrid drives as there isn't a whole lot of experience with them yet. I'm in no rush to get one as it wouldn't be worth it on my aged G5 quad.
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Re: Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby groovacious » Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:46 pm

Useful info: TB cables are only operable up to 3 metres.
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Re: Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby . . . Delete This User . . . » Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:50 pm

copper, i think optical is going to be longer... and i'm guessing it will depend on cable quality... a bit like firewire, where the std prescribed maximum length is 4.5 metres, but 10 metres is achievable reliably with really good cable and connectors....


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Re: Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby Tui » Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:02 pm

I imagine there are going to be repeaters, too. In fact, TB devices such as the new Apple cinema display probably act as repeaters.
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Re: Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby groovacious » Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:13 pm

Yeah, I read that optical can cope with massive lengths (ooer, missus) but that meantime it was too expensive. TB screens do act as repeaters...I'm looking forward to having a screen every 2-3m from control room to machine room.
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Re: Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby Kevin Nolan » Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:57 pm

Well the first Lacie Thunderbold SSDs are availabe soon but at these prices I think I'll be living without my sample libraries and Komplete 8 for another year! :

http://store.apple.com/us/product/H7151ZM/A?fnode=MTY1NDA0Nw&mco=MjUyOTQyNzk&s=topSellers

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Re: Thunderbolt SSD ?

Postby Tui » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:38 pm

Until the day all peripherals and interfaces come with TB for a standard, I just don't see the utility. FW800 is still fast enough, reliable and affordable too.
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