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Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

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Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

Postby nathanscribe » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:29 am

I'm looking at replacing my ageing and malfunctioning old Apple Mouse with either a trackpad or Kensington Expert. The reason I'm looking at the Kensington is I've tried one of their Slimblade trackballs and liked it a lot, except for the scrolling mechanism (rotating the ball itself, rather than a ring - which means the cursor moves around simultaneously, and which I found uncomfortable). I'm also short on space next to the keyboard, so something stationary would be better.

Basically I'm wondering if anybody has used either of these devices with Logic, and how they work compared to the 360 degree scrollball on the old regular mouse - any comments and experiences would be gratefully considered.
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Re: Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

Postby chris... » Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:14 pm

Which "old regular mouse" ? Maybe Apple Mighty Mouse ? (as opposed to the much better Magic Mouse).

I personally love the Magic TrackPad (nothing like a track ball, incase any other reader is confused).

However, a mouse has some advantages, so I've actually taken to using both TrackPad *and* mouse, one each side of the keyboard. As well as getting best of both worlds, I can now move the pointer with either hand, simply according to which hand is less busy doing other things.

( but appreciate this may not suit if space is short )
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Re: Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

Postby nathanscribe » Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:39 pm

chris... wrote:Which "old regular mouse" ? Maybe Apple Mighty Mouse ?

Yep, that's the one.

How does the trackpad function within Logic, if that's something you use it with? Any benefits/disadvantages compared to a mouse?
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Re: Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

Postby electrotimba » Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:52 pm

Kensington Expert Mouse is fantastic, cured me from serious wrist problems, used it for 2-3 years but with all new gestures I am fine with Magic Mouse, and stopped using Kensington. I can do more specially in DAWs then with Kensington and Expert is bulky. Magic Mouse might be too fiddly for some users, I like it more then touchpad (at the moment) but Apple probably will go touchpad way so might shift too it in the future.
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Re: Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

Postby ProximityProduction » Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:47 pm

I think the track pad is brilliant!

I use my macbook pro's track pad when I'm out and about then when its docked in my studio I use a separate one. i love being able to use all the gestures to zoom in and things, I find my workflow is quicker with gestures and stuff, just personal preference tbh.
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Re: Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

Postby Tui » Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:23 pm

I use two trackpads with my Mac Pro and Logic. I think they are brilliant. Very reliable and mobile too. Mice or trackballs seem cumbersome by comparison.
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Re: Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

Postby shroop » Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:48 pm

I've never used the Kensington Mouse but after switching to a Track Pad a year ago I now never use a mouse. I work on Logic pro all day and its terrific. Takes a week or two to get familiar with it but after a month or two you'll be flying around. It also ended various niggly RSI twinges I was suffering from as I tend to relax the operative hand's muscles more whereas with a mouse my hand was in a constant state of tension hovering over the mouse. Best £75 I ever spent on Mac gear!
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Re: Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

Postby desmond » Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:51 pm

I've lived with the Magic Trackpad for a while and have come to the realisation that I actually don't much like it.

It feels and behaves differently from the trackpad in my MBP (which feels fine and I use quite a bit) and not in a particularly good way. It just doesn't feel as "positive" - it feels like I'm kinda *indirectly* moving the mouse pointer, rather than *actually* moving it. Difficult to describe, but anyway, I've reverted to my pre-trackpad USB Overdrive setup and I'm much happier with it.
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Re: Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

Postby twotoedsloth » Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:39 pm

I really like the Kensington Expert mouse. The only catch is the price... I work at four workstations, so it cost me nearly $500.
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Postby Tui » Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:59 pm

Post deleted by Tui (yet another double-post).
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Re: Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

Postby Tui » Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:59 pm

desmond wrote:I've lived with the Magic Trackpad for a while and have come to the realisation that I actually don't much like it.


Yeah, but you are not normal.

:D
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Re: Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

Postby desmond » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:13 pm

Yeah, and that's a good thing... :lol:
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Re: Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

Postby chris... » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:36 pm

I agree with Desmond in that there's something slightly weird about the Magic TrackPad.

Not exactly sure what.

Maybe the MBP position is better (neither on the left nor right). I've sometimes tried my trackpad in front of the keyboard, but because of the shape this isn't ergonomic the way the MBP is.

So for now I'm liking having trackpad AND mouse. Only downside is 2 sets of batteries to charge. But it's great having them wireless, as I can pick up either and place them anywhere on the 2 desks (forming an 'L' shape) on which I work.
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Re: Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

Postby Fred Story » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:39 pm

I use both. Expert Mouse under the right hand, Apple Trackpad the left. Love the quickness of navigation in Logic with the trackpad, and the pointing precision of the Expert Mouse. The two-handed approach lets me really zip through things.
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Re: Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

Postby desmond » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:34 pm

chris... wrote:I agree with Desmond in that there's something slightly weird about the Magic TrackPad. Not exactly sure what.

Ah, so it's not just me then. Good good! :)

I don't know what it is either, but it just doesn't feel quite right to me.

chris... wrote:So for now I'm liking having trackpad AND mouse. Only downside is 2 sets of batteries to charge. But it's great having them wireless, as I can pick up either and place them anywhere on the 2 desks (forming an 'L' shape) on which I work.

For me: Mouse on the right, keyboard/trackpad and occasionally wired keyboard in front, graphics tablet and magic track pad on the left. I'm left handed for using a pen/tablet and right handed for the mouse - trackpads can be either left or right equally. It's quite handy having various mousing tools available for either hand, as when one gets tired I can use the other for a while... :tongue:
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Re: Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

Postby nathanscribe » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:59 pm

Interesting. So are the zoom gestures on the trackpad basically like doing CTRL+scroll on the mouse? And I take it the trackpad is easy to use for 360-degree scrolling? As for scrolling with the Expert Mouse, can the ring be set up to act on both horizontal as well as vertical movement?
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Re: Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

Postby Tui » Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:55 am

The trackpad is very easy to use, almost too easy. It is incredibly sensitive, so the smallest finger movement results in a cursor action. Contextual menus are accessible via two-finger tap, you can swipe between apps and desktops with four fingers, in SL, Expose is accessible via four-finger swipe... Zooming is done via two-finger swipe & selectable modifier.

Best of all, no more RSI.
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Re: Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

Postby daedalus » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:33 am

+1 for Kensignton Expert Trackball on the left, and the Magic Trackpad on the right.

Trackpad allows me to relax my primary input arm, which allows for longer working hours, while the Expert Mouse gives me the quickness of movement (the trackpad definitely lags too much for me, interrupting my workflow at times) plus configurable buttons, which I love.

I'm especially fond of pressing the lower right mouse button once to drag, and using the trackpad to position items/events in Logic. Winning combo.
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Re: Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

Postby nathanscribe » Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:18 pm

Hmm, OK... never thought using two devices might be useful. I try to use keyboard shortcuts as much as possible, when I can remember what they are. I keep discovering new ones and going "I can do that! Yay!" but some kind of pointing device is necessary, and the mouse isn't it for me. Interesting to read about the trackpad's scrolling. I've not had much experience with these multitouch gestures. I'm guessing from the responses here they're pretty easy to get used to and make sense?
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Re: Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

Postby Richie Royale » Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:22 pm

I'm still using my one button mouse. :tongue:
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Re: Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

Postby c0ff » Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:35 pm

desmond wrote:
chris... wrote:I agree with Desmond in that there's something slightly weird about the Magic TrackPad. Not exactly sure what.

Ah, so it's not just me then. Good good! :)

I don't know what it is either, but it just doesn't feel quite right to me.

I don't own a TrackPad, but most likely, the issue you describe is a latency.

MBP's trackpad is wired (most likely via USB) and Magic one is Bluetooth.
Bluetooth has a much higher latency than USB.
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Re: Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

Postby desmond » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:13 pm

c0ff wrote:I don't own a TrackPad, but most likely, the issue you describe is a latency.

MBP's trackpad is wired (most likely via USB) and Magic one is Bluetooth.
Bluetooth has a much higher latency than USB.


Possibly, yes.

Although my Logitech mouse is also wireless (not Bluetooth, but still radio) and that's very precise and feels great.

I don't know the difference in tech between the radio they use and the bluetooth protocols to know how much of a difference it makes, though...
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Re: Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

Postby daedalus » Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:06 pm

desmond wrote:
c0ff wrote:I don't own a TrackPad, but most likely, the issue you describe is a latency.

MBP's trackpad is wired (most likely via USB) and Magic one is Bluetooth.
Bluetooth has a much higher latency than USB.

Possibly, yes.

Although my Logitech mouse is also wireless (not Bluetooth, but still radio) and that's very precise and feels great.

I don't know the difference in tech between the radio they use and the bluetooth protocols to know how much of a difference it makes, though...

I also use a Logitech wireless mouse with a radio receiver (for my PC) and that one is very snappy. I'm not sure what it is about the Trackpad, but for me it feels like it needs to recognize gestures before firing the command, as a result, releasing a click takes a moment longer than it should, often displacing regions I'm trying to move. That's why the two input device setup works well for me. Use the Trackpad to move items, but use the buttons on the mouse for the actual clicking. I don't find the trackpad on the Macbook line to lag quite as much as the magic trackpad either.
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Re: Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

Postby Tui » Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:23 pm

This is an interesting point. I certainly notice some latency when using the magic trackpad (what a naff name) with my MBP, but I think that's more to do with inadequacies with the computer itself. When using it with the Mac Pro, there's no latency whatsoever, and commands are executed very smoothly.
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Re: Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

Postby tobiaudio » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:37 pm

The Magic Trackpad is just great for music produciton. Its gestures like one, two three, four finger moves makes it quicker to switch between windows and functions than any mouse will do. And is is very precise. I love it.
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Re: Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

Postby chris... » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:28 pm

Tui wrote:The trackpad is very easy to use, [...] Zooming is done via two-finger swipe & selectable modifier.

Or in some cases, pinch/expand to zoom in/out, like on iDevices.
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Re: Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

Postby chris... » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:29 pm

c0ff wrote:I don't own a TrackPad, but most likely, the issue you describe is a latency.

Not entirely convinced. I have various Bluetooth mice, which all respond just fine.

I'd be surprised if Bluetooth was significantly delaying stuff. Can you cite any references for figures in milliseconds ?
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Re: Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

Postby chris... » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:34 pm

One case where TrackPad has a known delay is if you have one-finger dragging enabled (which is lovely), then tap-to-click (which is also lovely) if enabled is delayed slightly - about 0.3 seconds by my estimate.

Image

I have a feeling this is a fundamental aspect of the system distinguishing between the gestures, as opposed to a software bug that could be fixed.

It applies equally to the Magic Trackpad and the MBP laptop trackpad.
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Re: Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

Postby SF_Drummer » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:50 pm

I've been using mice since I got my Amiga 500 back in the 80s, I was about 4. I've always used mice.

In September of last year I switched to a Kensington Expert Mouse and haven't looked back. Its comfortable to use and takes up only the space required by the unit, a mouse of course (depending on your cursor speed) can take up almost half a desk. I know a few people who have tried mine and like it, I love it. Customisation options are really nice as well.

I have a friend who used the Magic Trackpad and got terrible wrist pains after about a week...
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Re: Apple Trackpad or Kensington Expert Mouse?

Postby chris... » Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:38 am

Blimey - I've just now googled this Kensington Expert "mouse" of which you guys speak, to find it's actually a trackball !

Or have I got this wrong ?

Personally I hate trackballs (and imagine they'd give me wrist pains after a week)

I love the Trackpad.
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