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Logic Pro X Release Guesses ???

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Logic Pro X Release Guesses ???

Postby MarcusH » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:56 pm

Hi

Anybody have any views on when Logic Pro X will be released? There was a story circulating in Sept about features, but nothing since. Doesn't seem like the kind of thing they'd launch just before Christmas, as they'd want to launch something with more mass market sales then. So unless they launch around now, perhaps we're looking at the New Year?

As far as Apple watchers go I'm fairly inexperienced - so any body else?

Marcus
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Re: Logic Pro X Release Guesses ???

Postby G-Doubleyou » Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:27 pm

Soon, been noticing some Logic 10 book placeholders for pre-orders.

There's a thread over at Gearslutz.com

8-)
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Re: Logic Pro X Release Guesses ???

Postby johnny h » Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:30 pm

MarcusH wrote:Hi

Anybody have any views on when Logic Pro X will be released? There was a story circulating in Sept about features, but nothing since. Doesn't seem like the kind of thing they'd launch just before Christmas, as they'd want to launch something with more mass market sales then. So unless they launch around now, perhaps we're looking at the New Year?

As far as Apple watchers go I'm fairly inexperienced - so any body else?

Marcus

They could do with increasing the quality of their mixdown engine and internal plugins.

And also not make it crash ALL the time.
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Re: Logic Pro X Release Guesses ???

Postby Daniel Davis » Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:49 pm

johnny h wrote:

They could do with increasing the quality of their mixdown engine and internal plugins.

And also not make it crash ALL the time.


I can't argue for Logic 9, but I have had Logic versions 3, 5, and 8 and can't remember the last time it crashed. Its one of the most stable programs I've ever used.

Mixdown involves nothing more than adding - how can adding be improved? I'm a .Net programmer by day, I'd be interested if you could tell me some more about any elusive mathematical properties of addition to which I am not privy.

Yes, I have Waves Platinum and a Focusrite Liquid Mix, but compared with the likes of similarly priced programs I think the plug-ins are of a reasonable quality and the soft synths would justify the price tag of the program on their own.

Honestly my last version of Logic cost me £300 and the Waves Plug-ins are indeed slightly better, but cost £2500. Many plug-ins used by pros cost over a £100 each, so why complain at the quality of Logic at its price point?
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Re: Logic Pro X Release Guesses ???

Postby Richie Royale » Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:05 pm

A Monday.
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Re: Logic Pro X Release Guesses ???

Postby desmond » Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:46 pm

johnny h wrote:They could do with increasing the quality of their mixdown engine and internal plugins.

There's nothing wrong with the quality of Logic's mixer.
Personally, I'm not particularly interested in more plugins for Logic, I'm more interested in workflow features and bug fixes - but of course everyone's requests will be different.

johnny h wrote:And also not make it crash ALL the time.

Logic's always been rock solid here and rarely crashes (I can't remember the last time it crashed).
Try using it without third-party plugins or audio drivers for a while - does it still crash for you? Try it on a new fresh OSX install as well if you can.
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Re: Logic Pro X Release Guesses ???

Postby johnny h » Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:40 pm

Daniel Davis wrote:
johnny h wrote:

They could do with increasing the quality of their mixdown engine and internal plugins.

And also not make it crash ALL the time.


I can't argue for Logic 9, but I have had Logic versions 3, 5, and 8 and can't remember the last time it crashed. Its one of the most stable programs I've ever used.

Mixdown involves nothing more than adding - how can adding be improved? I'm a .Net programmer by day, I'd be interested if you could tell me some more about any elusive mathematical properties of addition to which I am not privy.

Yes, I have Waves Platinum and a Focusrite Liquid Mix, but compared with the likes of similarly priced programs I think the plug-ins are of a reasonable quality and the soft synths would justify the price tag of the program on their own.

Honestly my last version of Logic cost me £300 and the Waves Plug-ins are indeed slightly better, but cost £2500. Many plug-ins used by pros cost over a £100 each, so why complain at the quality of Logic at its price point?

Because its shite and doesn't need to be like that. Compare boosting on the channel EQ to a basic waves renaissance EQ. Its a brittle, harsh mess.

The mixdown engine is 24bit, which is fine if you are only doing a number of channels, but with lots of plugins and buses, rounding errors mount up in a non-musical way. If you structure your channels carefully you can get a perfectly good mix out of it certainly, but there is really no need for the audio engine to be behind every other competitor.
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Re: Logic Pro X Release Guesses ???

Postby desmond » Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:51 pm

johnny h wrote:The mixdown engine is 24bit, which is fine if you are only doing a number of channels, but with lots of plugins and buses, rounding errors mount up in a non-musical way. If you structure your channels carefully you can get a perfectly good mix out of it certainly, but there is really no need for the audio engine to be behind every other competitor.


Ho hum.

Logic's "mixdown engine" is not 24bit, it's 32float, like almost every other DAW out there, and is "behind" nobody, and sounds bit for bit identical (null tested) to all the other DAW mixers using the same scheme (implementation differences like pan laws aside).

Logic only outputs fixed-point bounces up to 24-bit depth though, but I fail to see how that's much of a limitation in the real world.
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Re: Logic Pro X Release Guesses ???

Postby Tui » Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:27 pm

Not to mention that the Waves Ren EQs sound just as "brittle" as Logic's own.
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Re: Logic Pro X Release Guesses ???

Postby twotoedsloth » Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:04 pm

I was told by a Waves product rep that Apple had dismissed their whole Logic marketing and distribution team, and that Logic X would be released through the App store. While I can't be sure, I am moderately concerned that Apple plans to to nerf Logic the same way it did to Final Cut. I use both Mac and PC, and therefore use Cubase, but many of my colleagues are Logic users going back to the Notator days, it's not going to be easy for them to switch after 20 years.
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Re: Logic Pro X Release Guesses ???

Postby MarcusH » Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:25 pm

Any more guesses on timing?
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Re: Logic Pro X Release Guesses ???

Postby desmond » Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:42 pm

twotoedsloth wrote:I was told by a Waves product rep that Apple had dismissed their whole Logic marketing and distribution team, and that Logic X would be released through the App store.

I doubt a Waves rep knows much of what goes on in Apple. But yes, the next version of Logic is almost certainly going to be released through the App Store.

twotoedsloth wrote:While I can't be sure, I am moderately concerned that Apple plans to to nerf Logic the same way it did to Final Cut.

I think the people who are concerned about this probably don't know much about the Final Cut situation, and make comparisons to Logic where comparisons don't make sense. FCP was an old, 32-bit legacy Cocoa application, which was architected on a decade old application framework - it was crusty, and hopelessly out of date. As Apple had to basically rewrite it from scratch, they made the decision to redesign it from scratch too. And apparently, up until really late in the day, the version we have now was going to be called "Final Cut" or "Final Cut Express" (*not* Final Cut Pro), and it was the higher ups who chose to call it the "Pro" version. It's a very different situation to Logic, which went through the modernisation a few years ago.

twotoedsloth wrote:I use both Mac and PC, and therefore use Cubase, but many of my colleagues are Logic users going back to the Notator days, it's not going to be easy for them to switch after 20 years.

Yes, I was a Creator & Notator user too.

I'm not worried about Logic, to be honest, personally.
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Re: Logic Pro X Release Guesses ???

Postby ConcertinaChap » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:15 pm

And of course if they do nerf it up one can always just not upgrade!

(Never come across the word nerf before. Pretty sure I can tell what it means from context :) )

CC
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Re: Logic Pro X Release Guesses ???

Postby MarcusH » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:32 pm

ConcertinaChap wrote:And of course if they do nerf it up one can always just not upgrade!


Or if you buy Logic X and it's unstable, at least you can go back to to Logic 9 for a time, while they sort out the bugs - as L9 will still be there. It's not like say, moving to Lion which is a lot of work to roll-back.

I wonder if Logic Pro X will be compatible with Snow Leopard or whether it will be Lion-only to make us upgrade. In my case that would have the reverse effect.
.

ConcertinaChap wrote:(Never come across the word nerf before. Pretty sure I can tell what it means from context :)


I think you chose exactly the right word!


Image

:bouncy:
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Re: Logic Pro X Release Guesses ???

Postby twotoedsloth » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:43 pm

Nerf is a children's toy company http://www.hasbro.com/nerf

This Waves product rep does really seem to know his stuff, for what that's worth. A former student of the university I work at was a member of the Apple/Logic team, and Emagic before that, and he was reorganized out of a job, so they're not just baseless rumours.
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Re: Logic Pro X Release Guesses ???

Postby desmond » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:44 pm

Apple also reorganised the FCP marketing team - I wouldn't be surprised if some of it was doing things like packaging and retail strategies etc which Apple are phasing out as they move to a completely online software distribution method.

It isn't necessarily a bad thing (except for the folks losing jobs, of course) or indicative of any lessening of commitment to the product, imo...
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Re: Logic Pro X Release Guesses ???

Postby thedomus » Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:07 pm

desmond wrote:
johnny h wrote:The mixdown engine is 24bit, which is fine if you are only doing a number of channels, but with lots of plugins and buses, rounding errors mount up in a non-musical way. If you structure your channels carefully you can get a perfectly good mix out of it certainly, but there is really no need for the audio engine to be behind every other competitor.

Ho hum.

Logic's "mixdown engine" is not 24bit, it's 32float, like almost every other DAW out there, and is "behind" nobody, and sounds bit for bit identical (null tested) to all the other DAW mixers using the same scheme (implementation differences like pan laws aside).

Logic only outputs fixed-point bounces up to 24-bit depth though, but I fail to see how that's much of a limitation in the real world.

Phew! Thanks Desmond for continued quelling of mis-information!
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