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Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

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Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby jules2005 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:51 am

The Apple 'Mac App-store' is, I think, a good thing. It's a great place to find relatively well-priced (and free) software for the Mac. Prices of software have certainly reduced (although Apple is now all about paying for full upgrades so i'm not sure if we ultimately get the deal we think we do). There is a downside though. Try searching for OSX Lion. It's gone, replaced by Mountain Lion. That's ok isn't it? I mean, we want the 'latest' operating system- right?

Well, possibly not. I'm still running Snow Leopard BECAUSE my (frankly huge investment in ) purchased software for music works on it. Much of it does not work on Mountain Lion. Indeed, many of the finest 'boutique' software plug-ins that I have are produced by smaller companies and catching up with Apple is, of course, a slower process for them. When my machine must finally move beyond Snow Leopard (or when it dies and must be replaced) I shall probably wave goodbye to a good number of trusty software 'go-to' friends. It's a side of Apple that I dislike. I'm wondering if others feel the same or if you have come to terms with it? Do you have ways to get around this that you have tried and have found to work? It strikes me that this will have a huge impact on what is available to Apple users...or will it? You thoughts....?
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Re: Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby TBTS » Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:37 pm

Once you've purchased an OS from the store, you can always re-download it again even after it has been superseded. So i don't think it matters too much, for myself anyway.
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Re: Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby DAGGILARR » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:27 am

I am relatively new to Mac so my first machine was on Snow Leopard. I moved to Mac from PC not because I am a media professional who made an equipment choice but as an enthusiastic amateur who took the advice of professionals when I would moan about the seemingly endless glitches and niggles that PC's and Microsoft presented. (having just spent 3 days sorting out 2 PC's for neighbours I am acutely reminded)

I saw Macs as THE professional machine, no sooner had I jumped than Apple seemed to take off in a new direction. My description in another thread was that Apple have become 'Toy Makers', importantly Apple are making kazillions of bucks on toys. I believe that the term Pro (and Mac) is now more about status than function (bit like driving round Chelsea in a Range Rover)


The reality is the toys will be the driving force that will initiate the rapid changes. Hopefully the changes in the OS that have caused some redundancy have happened now and while there will no doubt be more versions let us hope that they will not contain big changes that herald more problems, and give smaller developers time to catch up.
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Re: Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby Samurai Jack » Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:29 am

you're right in the sense that mountain lion has superseded lion - but if your machine doesn't support mountain lion but it did support lion (the earlier white MacBooks, for example) - you can ring Applecare and they can organise a copy of Lion for you. or so i am led to believe...
you will eventually still hit a brick wall with regards to upgrades/updates, as that is as far as you can go, but it squeezes a bit more longevity out of your setup.

s.e.
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Re: Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby GlynH » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:03 pm

I would like to obtain a copy of Snow Leopard for use in a VM under Fusion 5 but apparently I can't officially buy Snow Leopard?

Also I believe Apple's license doesn't support Snow Leopard Client but does support Snow Leopard Server?

Rekindling my interest in Music things have moved on apace from when I last looked.

I remember being upset that Apple had taken over Emagic and stopped any & all support for the PC back in the day.

I am now more upset to find they have killed off SoundDiver in its entirety along with Emagic hardware such as AMT8, Unitor etc.

Have they also removed SoundTrack Pro & Waveburner from Logic Poor...sorry Pro!

This is progress?

Wonder what they will drop next? Support for all audio interfaces apart from iPhone?

-=Glyn=-
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Re: Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby hollowsun » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:47 pm

GlynH wrote:I remember being upset that Apple had taken over Emagic and stopped any & all support for the PC back in the day.

I am now more upset to find they have killed off SoundDiver in its entirety along with Emagic hardware such as AMT8, Unitor etc.

Have they also removed SoundTrack Pro & Waveburner from Logic Poor...sorry Pro!

This is progress?
I am sure someone will be along soon to offer you an OS9 Mac from the 90s!

If only I'd known, you could have had mine and all that antiquated Emagic gumf for nothing before I dumped it!
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Re: Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby TBTS » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:40 pm

GlynH wrote:I would like to obtain a copy of Snow Leopard for use in a VM under Fusion 5 but apparently I can't officially buy Snow Leopard?

Also I believe Apple's license doesn't support Snow Leopard Client but does support Snow Leopard Server?

Rekindling my interest in Music things have moved on apace from when I last looked.

I remember being upset that Apple had taken over Emagic and stopped any & all support for the PC back in the day.

I am now more upset to find they have killed off SoundDiver in its entirety along with Emagic hardware such as AMT8, Unitor etc.

Have they also removed SoundTrack Pro & Waveburner from Logic Poor...sorry Pro!

This is progress?

Wonder what they will drop next? Support for all audio interfaces apart from iPhone?

-=Glyn=-

you can still get snow leopard from apple on their phone sales no. it's just not advertised (understandably, as it's a 3/4 year old piece of software.) 0800 048 0408
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Re: Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby DAGGILARR » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:54 pm

GlynH wrote:I would like to obtain a copy of Snow Leopard for use in a VM under Fusion 5 but apparently I can't officially buy Snow Leopard?

You can't install Snow Leopard in VM ware. I tried it, the only version it will allow is the server version .... unless this has changed since Fusion 4.
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Re: Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby Trebor Flow » Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:36 am

I bought an iMac to run Logic Pro 8, for compatibility with a few clients I help out on arrangements, my main rig is Cubase 6 on a PC workstation.

The thing that strikes me as ironic is, people buy into Apple computers because they are a niche, locked in, integrated hardware and software solution .... and then complain when Apple when run the company as a "niche, locked in, integrated hardware and software solution"

That's Apple for you, it's common knowledge this is how it rolls with Apple, out with the old in with the new. Period. Take it or leave it .... and they know the loyal following will take it.

The contrast for me is amazing, My PC Workstation is using hardware and software spanning almost TEN YEARS!!

My iMac is stuck on SL and Logic Pro 8 because Logic Pro 9 won't work on SL and my plugins on my iMac won't work on ML it's a mess for sure.

But hey, my iMac still works great as a SL machine and when I next have a spare few grand to give Apple I'll get a new iMac and Logic Pro X (hopefully) and begin the Mac cycle again.

tf
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Re: Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby DAGGILARR » Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:21 pm

This is the deal with Apple I agree, though I do believe Logic 9 will run on SL okay least up to about v9.1.4 I believe. There are many experts on here who will clear this up I am sure.

It strikes me that Apples view on the future of music making (as far as computers play a part) is that it is more and more in the hands the artists rather than a separate cadre of recording and production specialists so they are more concerned with mainstream products having capabilities that can work well at all levels rather than specialist software or machines.
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Re: Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby stratquebec » Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:02 pm

Trebor Flow wrote:
... and they know the loyal following will take it.


Ah... You really think so?
Apple took more than a year to update logic to solve an important bug with the EQ plugin and its graphic engine. Over than a year man!

But, they took only a few weeks to launch iOS 6.0.1.

Easy to read between the lines here...
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Re: Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby Wease » Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:16 pm

running logic pro version 9.1.8 in 32bit mode fine here on Snow Leopard on a 5 year old Macbook Pro late 2008 (wonderful machine that it is - still going strong!!)
no issues
....education price was £109 for logic.....

Macbook pro has at least (we haven't found out yet how long it will last!) double the lifespan of our schools PC equipment (which are 3 years max, as directed by support service)....and works in the classroom (unlike the windows 7 pc's we've just installed...)

You don't have to upgrade your OS....and I'm also running logic pro 9.1.8 on a 2009 iMac running Lion and a 2010 Macbook pro running mountain lion.....all working well.....all speaking with each other.....all running the same plug-ins (incl Camel Audio, Duende, Airwindows, DDMF etc)....and all able to load, edit, save and share projects between then quite nicely thanks!
no brainer really
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Re: Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby Dave Rowles » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:49 am

Trebor Flow wrote: iMac is stuck on SL and Logic Pro 8 because Logic Pro 9 won't work on SL and my plugins on my iMac won't work on ML it's a mess for sure.

That's odd, as I've got Logic Pro 9 running on Snow Leopard right here, and it works like a dream. I can understand about the plugins though.
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Re: Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby desmond » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:24 pm

The minimum requirement for Logic 9, up to the current 9.1.8 version, is 10.6.8.
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Re: Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby Trebor Flow » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:39 pm

Right that's good to know.

I was given the distinct impression that LP9 wouldn't work on SL (10.6.8)

Thing is, if I buy it for £140 off the App Store and then Apple release LPX will I have to pay another £140?

Surely LPX is coming soon, Cubase is about to get to Cubase 7 .... I can't believe Cubase will get to version
10 before Logic does!

tf
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Re: Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby desmond » Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:00 pm

Trebor Flow wrote:Thing is, if I buy it for £140 off the App Store and then Apple release LPX will I have to pay another £140?

Yep. Nothing has changed. Before the App Store pricing, Logic Studio was what, £300, and upgrades were £140. So if you'd bought LP8 for £300, and LP9 was released a few weeks later, you'd have to pay £140 to get LP9.

The only difference is that the entry point is cheaper - you only ever pay the upgrade price to get on board, and the upgrade price to move between major versions.

Trebor Flow wrote:Surely LPX is coming soon, Cubase is about to get to Cubase 7 .... I can't believe Cubase will get to version 10 before Logic does!

No who knows is in a position to say anything. So unless you can see into the future, you either buy now and be productive, or wait and hope that a new version comes soon, which may or may not be the case.
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Re: Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby OneWorld » Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:51 pm

Well, reading through this lot confirms one thing to me, Apples and PCs have their problems - except PC ones are half the price of Apple ones, that being said I just do not understand this PCs are unreliable gig. I installed Win7 on a custom built PC, bought off eBay for a quarter of the price of what the equivalent specc'd Apple would cost, it found something like 90% of the drivers, and works like a treat. Apart from the SATA connector working loose, so I need find some way of securing it.

I have found that I too have friends that always need their PC sorting out, but that is themselves downloading every bit of penny muck they come across on t'internet, those USA softwares that promise to speed up the machine, improve your sex life, big up your manhood, save you a fortune, make you a fortune, make your hair grow back, cure hirsutism, make you loads of friends, improve your confidence, give you diamond white teeth etc etc. That is not the fault of the PC, but the gormless individuals that are impressionable enough to believe all that. And goodness me, don't get me on the subject of Norton AV, what a pig in a poke that is, it is nagware defined, the PC app representation of the Devil Incarnate

I sometimes feel inclined to dip my toes in the Apple pond, after reading this lot, I am convinced there's nothing to gain at all, plenty to lose at Apple's prices though!
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Re: Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby Wease » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:42 pm

i understand oneworlds point.....to an extent
I too was of the "build yer own" pc brigade - and it worked a dream....£600 in about 2000/2001
plus £175 for windows xp....and £350 for cubase xp
and £100 odd for the monitor
and another £50 for mouse and keyboard

now - i'd just buy a mac mini for £500 (with all the operating software and iLife etc etc etc)....and logic for £132.....and another £150 for mouse and monitor -
saving me a whopping £400.....


which I'd spend on an Apple FanBoy t-shirt!!


you pays yer money, you takes yer choice......


(btw soundcard was rme hammerfall in the pc with a ddx16 behringer thang - now it's a focusrite 10/10......more mic pres in the focusrite - 'better' card and drivers in the rme....no ddx16(or whatever it was called)
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Re: Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby desmond » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:56 pm

Wease wrote:which I'd spend on an Apple FanBoy t-shirt!!

I've actually got one of those...
Apple sent me one for being awesome...
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Re: Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby OneWorld » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:11 pm

Wease wrote:i understand oneworlds point.....to an extent
I too was of the "build yer own" pc brigade - and it worked a dream....£600 in about 2000/2001
plus £175 for windows xp....and £350 for cubase xp
and £100 odd for the monitor
and another £50 for mouse and keyboard

now - i'd just buy a mac mini for £500 (with all the operating software and iLife etc etc etc)....and logic for £132.....and another £150 for mouse and monitor -
saving me a whopping £400.....


which I'd spend on an Apple FanBoy t-shirt!!


you pays yer money, you takes yer choice......


(btw soundcard was rme hammerfall in the pc with a ddx16 behringer thang - now it's a focusrite 10/10......more mic pres in the focusrite - 'better' card and drivers in the rme....no ddx16(or whatever it was called)


£175 for XP!!!! they saw you coming LOL

Back in the day - Core2Quad, 2x250 SATA, mid-range graphics card, 4gig Corsair RAM, Gigabyte MB, all the other odds and sods, case, upgraded power supply etc came to about £300

XP cost me about £75, and that was the one up from XP Home

Cubase, I have been a Cubase user since goodness knows when, but I upgrade every 3 years for about £100

Have had various interfaces, MOTU, M-Audio, but an Apple doesn't come with the equivalent of a MOTU 2408, or M-Audio 2626 etc does it?

I threw a new 1TB SATA drive in the other day, £60 from eBuyer

Can I sell you anything seeing as you paying £175 for XP! Does an Apple computer come with a free OS? if so, that's good, but I wouldn't pay over the odds for one, not worth the hassle.

A MacMINI wouldn't be any use to me as I am using RME PCI card at the moment
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Re: Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby Wease » Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:01 pm

i paid £150 for the case for that pc....it had flashing lights......

thinking about it....it might have been 1995...

i liked my pc....worked a dream...and i made some memorable (to me anyway) recordings with my set-up for many years...happy daze!

but now - needs are different.....work takes over pleasure.... and music is my career, but not in the way i imagined back then

however, for my purposes, the mac (a nearly 5 year old macbook pro for £1000) i'm using now has become a vital part of my workflow and i couldnt find a pc/windows based equivalent for the price....and software price especially.

but you may....and good for you


they are only computers after all....
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Re: Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby Wease » Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:03 pm

desmond wrote:
Wease wrote:which I'd spend on an Apple FanBoy t-shirt!!

I've actually got one of those...
Apple sent me one for being awesome...

nice ...what colour is it.....can we see a pic? (or would that be tellin!)
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Re: Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby desmond » Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:17 pm

Wease wrote:nice ...what colour is it.....can we see a pic? (or would that be tellin!)

Black, of course
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Re: Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby OneWorld » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:24 pm

Wease wrote:

they are only computers after all....

Actually, yep, that sums it all up
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Re: Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby Iggor » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:38 pm

Thunderbolt port and retina display is very professional.
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Re: Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby Microwave » Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:43 pm

As others have said there is no need to upgrade if your setup if it is doing what you want without problems.
I still run Snow Leopard on my main machine, and imho its the most stable version of the Mac OS at the moment, and 10.7.5 (lost track of what kind of feline that would be) on my laptop, just because it came with it. I have no intention to upgrade either of them to the latest OS until something comes up that I really feel the need of.
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Re: Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby DAGGILARR » Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:23 pm

The definition of an addict (or a least part of it) is continuing to use despite negative consequences

Will anyone own to being an upgrade/update addict (my hand shoots skyward at this point) IE one who continues to upgrade/update despite negative consequences ?
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Re: Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby desmond » Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:36 pm

I'm an "intelligent upgrader" - I assess my options and make each upgrade decision based on needs, outcomes, benefits and disruptions.

However, I will only tend to get stuck for a while if I need something that I will lose by upgrading. But sooner or later, that minor decision to not move forward will likely result in a much more major upgrade task at some later stage in the future - so you have to bear that in mind.
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Re: Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby johnny h » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:15 pm

desmond wrote:I'm an "intelligent upgrader" - I assess my options and make each upgrade decision based on needs, outcomes, benefits and disruptions.

However, I will only tend to get stuck for a while if I need something that I will lose by upgrading. But sooner or later, that minor decision to not move forward will likely result in a much more major upgrade task at some later stage in the future - so you have to bear that in mind.

Don't upgrade when you are in the middle of something important. When its time for something new and fresh that's the time to start messing about with new stuff and throwing out the old.
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Re: Apple's OSX and the future of Music-Making

Postby Richie Royale » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:41 pm

I only upgrade when I have the money, usually because I am upgrading the machine from one generation to another about 3 years behind.
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