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Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby CC11 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:10 am

Yamaha is really flexing it's muscle with the release of both Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6.

C7 is looking mighty awesome!!!
http://www.steinberg.net/en/home.html
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Re: Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby Pink Fluid » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:02 am

But still no attempt at addressing the program's dreadful windows management......
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Re: Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby The Elf » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:17 am

Pink Fluid wrote:But still no attempt at addressing the program's dreadful windows management......
Why? What needs fixing?
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Re: Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby Pink Fluid » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:12 pm

What I'm talking about is a proper docking system with tabs. I'm sure the windows are working as designed (very 1995) but I find things like constantly having to resize the main arrange window after other windows have been opened, or not having the correct plug-ins displayed according to the channel selected really tedious. I accept there are things I could maybe do like 'Always on top' etc as well as using window sets but I'm not a power user and I usually find myself very quickly bogged down in a mass of windows.
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Re: Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby The Elf » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:58 pm

I can't see the problem. I have the Arrange window on one monitor and the mixer on the other. I never have to move or resize anything.

And tabs?! No thank you!

I really hope Steinberg don't change anything in that direction. I'm happy with things just as they are!
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Re: Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby Matt Houghton » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:27 pm

Pink Fluid wrote:What I'm talking about is a proper docking system with tabs.

Please, nooooooo! I want to be able to manage the windows as I see fit, not be forced into a way of working someone else dreamed up. That's one thing I like about Cubase and I hate that other DAWs have moved in that direction. If I wanted everything neat and visible and fitting on one screen, I might as well just have a bunch of sliders and text boxes, and dispense with the GUI altogether.

I'm working on a dual screen setup, and there's plenty of space to put windows where I want them. I suppose a tabs ***option*** might benefit laptop users.

Also, I *like* having plug-ins from multiple channels open at the same time. It means I can balance settings on tracks that have an impact on one another in the mix. Eg HPF, tape emulation, EQ, VCC or whatever. To manage windows, I've just assigned a shortcut key to the ones I use regularly — three mixers, VST connections, VST instruments etc etc.
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Re: Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby Dave Rowles » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:18 pm

The Elf wrote:I have the Arrange window on one monitor and the mixer on the other.


Actually, multiple windows is my biggest annoyance with Cubase. If I had a second monitor then it would sort it out, but as I'm a one-screen-laptop kinda guy it's very cluttered. I much prefer the screenset feature of Logic. One hit number key for each function.

If Cubase has this function now however...please ignore my post :P
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Re: Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby artzmusic » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm

Really happy with C6. (dual-screen) Is anyone seeing an advantage to updating?

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Re: Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby Strangy » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:33 pm

artzmusic wrote:Really happy with C6. (dual-screen) Is anyone seeing an advantage to updating?

Rick

same here... from the "what's new" blurb on the website:

"12 dB boost ... an exceptional feel to the controls ... plenty of pristine headroom and a fundamentally transparent sonic signature."

ok there are other features but I'm not sold!

early days, maybe it'd grow but I don't really like the look of the new channel strip nor the mixer console layout, guess that's all very subjective though.

Disclaimer: I'll happily point out that I'm a bit annoyed as I was just about to update from 6 to 6.5 and now apparently can't! The only way to get the new features introduced in 6.5 is to wait for 7
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Re: Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby Will_m » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:54 am

I suppose it depends on how you use it but I think the update is going to be a good one, the new mixer for me seems much more intuitive, the A/B for all plug-ins is cool, the voxengo eq,the video collaboration tool and a fair few tweaks and improvements mean it should be quite a leap forward. You also get the new stuff from 6.5 (I'm on v6) which was a much smaller update and seemed to be mainly adding in new synths etc, the soundcloud integration was cool though, just another little time saver.

I was hoping for some improvement to working with picture though but I guess you can't have it all.
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Re: Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby Matt Houghton » Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:53 am

Dave Rowles wrote:
The Elf wrote:I have the Arrange window on one monitor and the mixer on the other.

Actually, multiple windows is my biggest annoyance with Cubase. If I had a second monitor then it would sort it out, but as I'm a one-screen-laptop kinda guy it's very cluttered. I much prefer the screenset feature of Logic. One hit number key for each function.

If Cubase has this function now however...please ignore my post :P

Yes, Cubase does have shortcut keys for each window. You can find them if you go to the keyboard shortcuts menu option. In fact, you can change them and assign keys to control whatever you want. Eg I've got a USB numeric keypad set up to control loads of different functions; and assigned other keys to control horizontal/vertical zoom; the F keys to select different windows; number keys on the main keypad to select editing tools. Etc etc. You can assign whatever you want to whatever function, macro or tool you want. Maybe I should do a tutorial on that in the mag!

But in C7 there looks to be a function to create a shortcut to your current settings and positionings within the project. Looks a more elegant solution to me than a dock, but that remains to be seen. What I meant was that I hate being forced to work in a certain way, and the Logic/Ableton style arrangement, that has made its way into PT etc makes me feel constricted.

I can recommend a dual screen setup if you have the space. Another screen is as cheap (f not cheaper) than upgrading Cubase! I don't put everything in view at once, though - I prefer to have the arrange page stretched out, the mixer stretched out and flip between the two main views. I can see everything going in in the mixer that way, and have more info available to the left of the arrange page, and VU metering and master buss processing visible on the right. Works nicely for me, though others prefer to work in a different way...
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Re: Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby Matt Houghton » Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:58 am

STRANGY wrote: I was just about to update from 6 to 6.5 and now apparently can't! The only way to get the new features introduced in 6.5 is to wait for 7

Yes, odd that that's not available in the Steinberg shop. If you don't want to wait, or upgrade to C7, I suppose you could buy Cubase 5 > 6.5 upgrade (as C6 will act as a license for C5 and previous), but that's 166 Euros.

From the videos I've seen of C7, though, you can show/hide the built in channel strip stuff, so you could always hide what you don't want. Not quite the 49 Euro update though...
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Re: Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby desmond » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:04 am

Matt Houghton wrote:What I meant was that I hate being forced to work in a certain way, and the Logic/Ableton style arrangement, that has made its way into PT etc makes me feel constricted.

Unfortunately, from LP8 onwards, people seem to start bundling Logic into the "single-window" app category, and it is not.

Just because there is an option to work in one consolidated window, which does make sense for a lot of people, doesn't mean it forces you to. You can use Logic in that same way you always could, with multiple windows, screensets, content-linked windows and so on. In many cases, Logic's window management has always been pretty good, even if not that many people seemed to understand how powerful/useful and time saving it was/is.

I also hate window juggling and find it one of the most workflow-destructive things, to have to keep moving windows around, juggling which ones are on top, resizing to see other windows etc. When I watch some people work, I shudder at how slow and inefficient some people operate in their environment...
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Re: Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby daedalus » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:36 am

+1 on the Logic Window management system (especially the linking feature!). Being able to recall screensets with a quick shortcut is worth gold in a fast workflow. First thing I set up in every template for every new project is a screenset for notation, editing and mixing. Switch between those depending on the task at hand. My only gripe is that the zoom levels of the arrange window don't carry over from one screenset to the next: I'd love a preference option to allow that.

Digital Performer actually has a brilliant concept with the 'consolidated' window, which let's you dock multiple editors into the same space, complete with side panels for other functions (audio monitor, audio bin, CPU usage, etc). Unfortunately, they restrict you to just one such window; once that's full, you're stuck managing floating windows that need resizing. I hate resizing - it's a waste of time. For that purpose, anyone who's interested in getting rid of this problem should check out "Moom" for Mac. Quite useful.

Finally, I haven't been able to make music using a DAW on a single screen for, uhm, ever. One screen with regions, the other score or mixer at all times.
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Re: Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby Richie Royale » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:37 am

Matt Houghton wrote: Maybe I should do a tutorial on that in the mag!


Yes please.
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Re: Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby Matt Houghton » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:54 am

desmond wrote:
Matt Houghton wrote:What I meant was that I hate being forced to work in a certain way, and the Logic/Ableton style arrangement, that has made its way into PT etc makes me feel constricted.

Unfortunately, from LP8 onwards, people seem to start bundling Logic into the "single-window" app category, and it is not.

Just because there is an option to work in one consolidated window, which does make sense for a lot of people, doesn't mean it forces you to. You can use Logic in that same way you always could, with multiple windows, screensets, content-linked windows and so on. In many cases, Logic's window management has always been pretty good, even if not that many people seemed to understand how powerful/useful and time saving it was/is.

I also hate window juggling and find it one of the most workflow-destructive things, to have to keep moving windows around, juggling which ones are on top, resizing to see other windows etc. When I watch some people work, I shudder at how slow and inefficient some people operate in their environment...


Sorry... I was being rather general. What I meant is that since they made that the default view in LP8 it has annoyed me. Both Logic and Cubase are pretty flexible in this regard. PT too.

Using windows doesn't mean you need to juggle them around and keep resizing, though. Far from it. You can just have screen sets organised how you want, and at what level of zoom, and use a single key to reach each one. That way, IMO, you get to make the most of your screen real estate whatever it is you're doing. The inefficiency in its use is down to the user. C7 *promises* (hope it delivers too) to make this much more efficient. Personally, I don't see the point in having loads of stuff on screen that's not relevant to the task in hand. But like I said, what people want varies according to individual needs/preferences. I just prefer that things are introduced as options, rather than a default choice.
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Re: Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby Matt Houghton » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:56 am

Richie Royale wrote:
Matt Houghton wrote: Maybe I should do a tutorial on that in the mag!


Yes please.

OK. Coming soon to an SOS near you... and if you want to suggest more topics, there's a sticky in the Production forum here:

Cubase Techniques: Reader Topic Suggestions
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Re: Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby Strangy » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:08 am

Matt Houghton wrote:
STRANGY wrote: I was just about to update from 6 to 6.5 and now apparently can't! The only way to get the new features introduced in 6.5 is to wait for 7

Yes, odd that that's not available in the Steinberg shop. If you don't want to wait, or upgrade to C7, I suppose you could buy Cubase 5 > 6.5 upgrade (as C6 will act as a license for C5 and previous), but that's 166 Euros.

From the videos I've seen of C7, though, you can show/hide the built in channel strip stuff, so you could always hide what you don't want. Not quite the 49 Euro update though...

that's the annoying thing unfortunately, users of Cubase Studio 4 / 5, Essential 4/5, Elements 6, Sequel 2/3, Cubase SX 1/2/3, Cubase SL 1/2/3, Cubase SE 3, Cubase LE 4/5/6, Cubase AI 4/5/6, CAN all still upgrade to Cubase 6.5. Yet those on 6.0.7 can't! It's annoying and makes no sense at all to me, other than of course trying to force users to 7 (££). says a lot about the company I'd say.

I have emailed the support guys but haven't heard back yet. Hopefully they'll correct this frustrating situation.
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Re: Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby Strangy » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:34 pm

So I'm yet to hear back from Steinberg but a fellow customer who has responded to my query over on the Steinberg forum claims he has received a response from Steinb HQ to the effect of:

The upgrade path (Cubase 6.0 to 6.5) is deleted from the online shop and it will not come back…. to get 6.5 I have to wait until 5th December when Cubase 7 is available and purchase that to get a license which includes the license for 6.5!

Neat solution eh Steinberg? nah, it's a joke... I like many others may not want the new look of 7, or simply want 6.5 right now for the £40 it is worth over 6.0. To add insult, all other Cubase version users can still upgrade to 6.5 now… just not us on 6.0.

This is shocking and rubbish customer relations from Steinberg if it proves to be confirmed…
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Re: Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby Andi » Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:11 pm

Re the windows arrangement, I use a single monitor and workspaces - no prob at all.

Re 6.5 - Steinberg is doing a no-fee upgrade to C7 for anyone registered with 6.5 since mid Oct. As the 6.5 upgrade from 6.0 was about £40 and the upgrade to C7 from 6.5 is £120 I was thinking about re-buy / re-registering 6.5 (after checking if this is possible; can any-one confirm either way if I can add a second reg for a product to my key?). Still, anyone who resisted 6.5 when it came out will only have 3 weeks to wait for C7 (oh - and a £160 upgrade fee). Or see if you can find a dealer with it in-stock.

Meanwhile, stuff COD Black Ops, I want C7 to play with now.

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Re: Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby daedalus » Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:48 pm

Andi wrote: Meanwhile, stuff COD Black Ops, I want C7 to play with now.

Sacrilege!
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Re: Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby tex » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:57 pm

STRANGY wrote:So I'm yet to hear back from Steinberg but a fellow customer who has responded to my query over on the Steinberg forum claims he has received a response from Steinb HQ to the effect of:

The upgrade path (Cubase 6.0 to 6.5) is deleted from the online shop and it will not come back…. to get 6.5 I have to wait until 5th December when Cubase 7 is available and purchase that to get a license which includes the license for 6.5!

Neat solution eh Steinberg? nah, it's a joke... I like many others may not want the new look of 7, or simply want 6.5 right now for the £40 it is worth over 6.0. To add insult, all other Cubase version users can still upgrade to 6.5 now… just not us on 6.0.

This is shocking and rubbish customer relations from Steinberg if it proves to be confirmed…

Surely as you are also licensed for any lesser versions you could do the upgrade from your C5 license instead of C6.
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Re: Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby Strangy » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:10 am

tex wrote:Surely as you are also licensed for any lesser versions you could do the upgrade from your C5 license instead of C6.

I may be able to upgrade from 6 to 6.5 by purchasing a license upgrade from 5 to 6.5, but this costs £162! In comparison to £42 that the upgrade from 6.0 to 6.5 should cost i.e. before they pulled it earlier this week after announcing 7!

Right now I could really make use of the comping features in 6.5, and the fact is that all other Cubase version users can still upgrade to 6.5 in the meantime (before 7 is out)…

A simple exemption rule/clause in the grace period policy could have prevented anyone from purchasing a £42 upgrade from 6-6.5 with the intention/hope of bagging a free upgrade to 7 (which isn’t what I want!)

So it seems that I’m stuck on 6.0.x indefinitely… But hey, what does anyone care!?
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Re: Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby desmond » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:28 am

The thing is, if you want the upgrade, why wait a long time after it's released, and then, on the day the next upgrade is released, decide you actually wanted the previous upgrade after all?

It would make more sense surely to get the new upgrade shortly after it's released, rather than waiting until the next one is released...
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Re: Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby Exalted Wombat » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:53 am

STRANGY wrote:So I'm yet to hear back from Steinberg but a fellow customer who has responded to my query over on the Steinberg forum claims he has received a response from Steinb HQ to the effect of:

The upgrade path (Cubase 6.0 to 6.5) is deleted from the online shop and it will not come back…. to get 6.5 I have to wait until 5th December when Cubase 7 is available and purchase that to get a license which includes the license for 6.5!

Neat solution eh Steinberg? nah, it's a joke... I like many others may not want the new look of 7, or simply want 6.5 right now for the £40 it is worth over 6.0. To add insult, all other Cubase version users can still upgrade to 6.5 now… just not us on 6.0.

This is shocking and rubbish customer relations from Steinberg if it proves to be confirmed…

6.5 has been available for some time. Why have you only now decided you want it?

You've missed a bus. It happens.
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Re: Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby Strangy » Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:38 pm

desmond wrote:The thing is, if you want the upgrade, why wait a long time after it's released, and then, on the day the next upgrade is released, decide you actually wanted the previous upgrade after all?

ah no, that’s your assumption Desmond… I’ve recently started mixing some traditional ‘band’ projects, live drums, multi-mic’d guitar etc and I will be doing lots more in this area over the coming weeks… The comping tools would be useful. I would describe it as unfortunate timing on my side! Yes 7 has just been announced and yes Steinberg have pulled the upgrade path I was about to purchase! That is all there is to it! oh and yes other users of previous versions can still upgrade to 6.5… which pi$ses me off!

desmond wrote:It would make more sense surely to get the new upgrade shortly after it's released, rather than waiting until the next one is released...

Really? Surely NOT more like! I always buy stuff on a need basis. Surely you don't pay for an upgrade merely because one is made available, unless of course you need the new features on offer? Cubase 6.5 introduced some small, at the time not very meaningful extra features for my uses, which would now be useful tools. 6 months ago I could live without them, now my latest projects could make use of them! that's it...

On that note, I don’t see that 7 adds a whole lot I couldn’t live without in 6.5! so I won’t be upgrading to that… I can find my extra 6dB of channel fader movement elsewhere!
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Re: Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby Strangy » Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:40 pm

Exalted Wombat wrote:
You've missed a bus. It happens.

thanks! see my reply above for answer. to use your analogy, the same bus is still serving other Cubase users who can happily upgrade to 6.5 right now! sh1t happens more like
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Re: Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby desmond » Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:27 pm

STRANGY wrote:I always buy stuff on a need basis. Surely you don't pay for an upgrade merely because one is made available, unless of course you need the new features on offer?

There are reasons for upgrading other than whether or not you'd like the new big feaures, including smaller, less-documented improvements, bug fixes, upgrade path and compatibility (forward and sideward) reasons, and more...

So yes, for my tools of choice, I generally do keep moving forward with new versions, because the tools get better, more useful and more refined. And often you feel you have no use for a big feature, and then find out it's just the thing you need when you need it...
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Re: Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby Strangy » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:16 pm

desmond wrote:

There are reasons for upgrading other than whether or not you'd like the new big feaures, including smaller, less-documented improvements, bug fixes, upgrade path and compatibility (forward and sideward) reasons, and more...

So yes, for my tools of choice, I generally do keep moving forward with new versions, because the tools get better, more useful and more refined. And often you feel you have no use for a big feature, and then find out it's just the thing you need when you need it...

ah, sounds like you're tied to Cubase's upgrade path, thankfully I am not:) different needs I guess!

£162 for a speculative upgrade that I might make use of one day could be spent better elsewhere, for me. And if a product compromises the stability of an otherwise rock solid system I question how much I need it in the first place. Given the purpose of a DAW, I would not expect my DAW to be the weak link in that chain that breaks things down! esp every 6-12 months. Buying new technology/pc/hardware or whatever yes, fair enough.

Let's face it 7 isn't going to be a full rewrite of code is it?! I would imagine it's backwards compatible with 5/6 and that the architecture is largely identical (albeit there’s large cosmetic/aesthetic differences)... Whether the existing tools are better in v7 is pretty subjective I think ? Much of the marketing headline I've seen looks like marketing blurb: 6dB of extra fader travel, more pristine headroom (sic), the producer’s choice etc… c’mon!

Known bugs should be fixed as maintenance releases actually before a version gets shelved or made obsolete (did they ever fix the external fx latency issues for instance!?) In this case Steinberg will leave known bugs and move on.

Regardless of our different attitudes to upgrades, I maintain that it would’ve been courteous to give customers on 6.0.x a chance to upgrade to the latest version of that generation (i.e. 6.5.x) before the rug was pulled. This confirms what I've read about customer relations with the Steinberg folks.
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Re: Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6

Postby desmond » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:18 pm

STRANGY wrote:ah, sounds like you're tied to Cubase's upgrade path, thankfully I am not:) different needs I guess!

No, actually I really don't like Cubase at all - just illustrating my point. As a Logic user, there are people who want to "upgrade" to long old versions and complain they can't get them anymore, whereas if they'd stayed on the upgrade path, they wouldn't be having those issues. But yes, I'm of course not saying that everyone should always blindly upgrade, or anything like that...
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