You are here

Opening a movie file brings Logic 9.1.8 to its knees...

For current or would-be users of Apple Mac computers, with answers to many FAQs.

Opening a movie file brings Logic 9.1.8 to its knees...

Postby daedalus » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:57 am

...and me to the end of my rope.

I'm on a deadline for a trailer here and admittedly, I should have tested things better before using the setup for work. In Logic 32bit none of this was an issue.

The issue:

Running a fairly large orchestral session, all VIs of course, on an 8-core 2.26GHz. The session runs very nicely, all 16 threads about equally distributed (a small miracle, I know!).

Add a movie, which I need for syncing, and the whole thing doesn't play more than 2 seconds before giving me the "System overlad" message. Even if I unload the movie, things don't get back to normal until I quit Logic and reopen the session - a lengthy endeavor!

I'm on a deadline, if anyone has any tips as to dealing with video and Logic 64bit, I would be grateful. Right now I've got the video open in Quicktime outside logic and just press play simultaneously to check on things - far from ideal.

By the way, I've tried encoding the video in various different formats, including DV, which I thought would be easier on the CPU, but no change.

Cheers
daedalus
Regular
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:00 am
Location: LA

Just a piano and some sketch paper please...


Re: Opening a movie file brings Logic 9.1.8 to its knees...

Postby desmond » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:15 am

Does the video/Logic play ok when loaded into an empty project?
Does it play in Logic in 32-bit mode?

What are the details of the video (size, codec etc?) What happens if you re-encode to a low resolution file, like 400x300 pixels or fewer?
User avatar
desmond
Jedi Poster
Posts: 6656
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:00 am

mu:zines | music magazine archive
Vintage issues of Sound On Sound, Electronics & Music Maker, Music Technology and more...


Re: Opening a movie file brings Logic 9.1.8 to its knees...

Postby Will Bailey » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:16 am

Hi there,

If you suspect 64-bit to be an issue you can force 32-bit mode from "get info" (right click the icon or cmd+i) see if that works.

if its a bug with the current version, and you've updated from 9.0.x recently, sometimes previous app versions of logic are left in the application folder. If you're lucky it might still be there.

Will
Will Bailey
Poster
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Opening a movie file brings Logic 9.1.8 to its knees...

Postby daedalus » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:58 am

Thanks for chiming in guys.

Desmond: the movie file plays perfectly in an empty project. Actually, there is NO activity in the expanded CPU meter at all. The details of the video, currently, are 720 x 404 (given to me by the editor), H.264, FPS 29.97, 103mb. H.264 usually work really well for me.

I've converted that video to DV with no better result, as well as to MP4, which actually worked a bit better in the busy session, though obviously the quality was very low (not a problem). Trying an even lower resolution file next...

Will: can't go to 32bit as the session uses way too many instruments to manage the RAM load. Need Logic in 64.

What I find odd is that before I open the movie window in this busy project, Logic completely fills up my RAM meter (I'm using Memory Freer to keep an eye), releases a bunch of RAM, then opens the movie. I'm on 12Gb, with 2.91Gb free when the movie is not open.
daedalus
Regular
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:00 am
Location: LA

Just a piano and some sketch paper please...


Re: Opening a movie file brings Logic 9.1.8 to its knees...

Postby desmond » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:56 pm

clisma wrote:Desmond: the movie file plays perfectly in an empty project. Actually, there is NO activity in the expanded CPU meter at all. The details of the video, currently, are 720 x 404 (given to me by the editor), H.264, FPS 29.97, 103mb. H.264 usually work really well for me.

I've converted that video to DV with no better result, as well as to MP4, which actually worked a bit better in the busy session, though obviously the quality was very low (not a problem). Trying an even lower resolution file next...


Ok cool, so we can probably rule out a crappy or difficult to decode codec causing performance issues, and it's probably small enough to not matter too much.

clisma wrote:Will: can't go to 32bit as the session uses way too many instruments to manage the RAM load. Need Logic in 64.


Yeah we get this, it was another step to try to see whether it makes a difference (for example, whether the issue is a Quicktime 64-bit issue that isn't there in 32-bit). However, the evidence that it runs ok in an emptyish project suggests this is less likely to be the case.

clisma wrote:What I find odd is that before I open the movie window in this busy project, Logic completely fills up my RAM meter (I'm using Memory Freer to keep an eye), releases a bunch of RAM, then opens the movie. I'm on 12Gb, with 2.91Gb free when the movie is not open.


What are the activity meters doing? Is Logic using more disk and/or CPU when the movie is loaded? Is the movie file coming off the same disk that the audio tracks/samples are coming from?
User avatar
desmond
Jedi Poster
Posts: 6656
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:00 am

mu:zines | music magazine archive
Vintage issues of Sound On Sound, Electronics & Music Maker, Music Technology and more...


Re: Opening a movie file brings Logic 9.1.8 to its knees...

Postby daedalus » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:14 pm

The meters within Logic see massively more activity (the HD meter rises to about half to 3/4) with the movie open. Several Cpu threads go into the red, stay a short moment, then the dropout with message occurs. If I unload the movie at that point, the session still does not play back. Only closing and reopening the session/Logic does the trick.

The movie files are all on a separate HD. I've got one for the system, one for audio, two for samples and the final one, with loads of open space, for the movies.

I'm thinking of using something like Humatic Chaingang to open the movie outside of logic. I would then slave Chaingang to Logic MTC and trigger the sync that way. Another possibility is to use VE Pro 5 and load all my VIs in there, leaving logic to deal with midi, notation and the movie.

I'd much rather stay in logic though, don't want things to get complicated and unnecessarily messy.
daedalus
Regular
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:00 am
Location: LA

Just a piano and some sketch paper please...


Re: Opening a movie file brings Logic 9.1.8 to its knees...

Postby desmond » Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:23 pm

Does it do the same thing if you choose a different movie file - preferably one that has worked before?

Assuming it does the same thing, then it's most likely project specific, either in terms of corruption, or memory limits? I'm assuming you've tried all the usual performance improvement things like increasing buffer sizes and seeing whether that improves the situation.

Yeah, I was going to suggest, at least for now to get the deadline out of the way, of moving the movie file to another computer system synced to Logic, which would at least keep you working until you get this thing out of the way and have some time to experiment a little more.
User avatar
desmond
Jedi Poster
Posts: 6656
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:00 am

mu:zines | music magazine archive
Vintage issues of Sound On Sound, Electronics & Music Maker, Music Technology and more...


Re: Opening a movie file brings Logic 9.1.8 to its knees...

Postby daedalus » Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:43 pm

desmond wrote:Does it do the same thing if you choose a different movie file - preferably one that has worked before?

Assuming it does the same thing, then it's most likely project specific, either in terms of corruption, or memory limits? I'm assuming you've tried all the usual performance improvement things like increasing buffer sizes and seeing whether that improves the situation.

Yeah, I was going to suggest, at least for now to get the deadline out of the way, of moving the movie file to another computer system synced to Logic, which would at least keep you working until you get this thing out of the way and have some time to experiment a little more.

I've tried several different movie files and it all behaves the same. Yes to memory limits - I'm teethering fairly close to the max and will increase the RAM next week, but would that be a valid reason for the CPU meters to go crazy?

As you say, gotta focus on the music now, so whatever works, but as soon as I'm done with this trailer I've got to fix this issue. It's literally a show stopper.

Thanks for the help!
daedalus
Regular
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:00 am
Location: LA

Just a piano and some sketch paper please...


Re: Opening a movie file brings Logic 9.1.8 to its knees...

Postby desmond » Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:58 pm

clisma wrote:I've tried several different movie files and it all behaves the same. Yes to memory limits - I'm teethering fairly close to the max and will increase the RAM next week, but would that be a valid reason for the CPU meters to go crazy?


When you start hitting memory limits, it can affect lots of things, as the system has to work to understand what you need, swap ram contents in and out of the disk and this stuff means an additional drain on resources that are already working pretty hard to keep everything running in realtime - so the exact effects of low memory can be quite variable.

It will certainly be a good idea to get more RAM and retry the same project to see whether the performance improves...
User avatar
desmond
Jedi Poster
Posts: 6656
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:00 am

mu:zines | music magazine archive
Vintage issues of Sound On Sound, Electronics & Music Maker, Music Technology and more...


Re: Opening a movie file brings Logic 9.1.8 to its knees...

Postby turbodave » Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:22 pm

Hi, Can you shrink the movie file size , purely for work ? ..or will that not make any difference? Dave
User avatar
turbodave
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1622
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: derbyshire uk

My head hurts!


Re: Opening a movie file brings Logic 9.1.8 to its knees...

Postby daedalus » Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:59 pm

turbodave wrote:Hi, Can you shrink the movie file size , purely for work ? ..or will that not make any difference? Dave

Hi Dave, I've tried that as well. The size, codec and frame rate oddly enough, seem not to matter. It just stutters.

I may try importing the midi tracks into my orchestral template after I finish the gig, and then loading the movie there, just to rule out project corruption. I feel like I shouldn't be running into this wall on this machine - feels more like a Logic issue. Hope more RAM will help.

Thanks for the input.
daedalus
Regular
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:00 am
Location: LA

Just a piano and some sketch paper please...


Re: Opening a movie file brings Logic 9.1.8 to its knees...

Postby electrotimba » Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:19 pm

Open the file in QT and export as QT, Photo Jpg @ 80% quality. It is the most commonly used by VJs, very light on CPU etc.
I remember playing 720x404 file in Ableton Live (which just using default QT player) made 2-3% CPU difference (4-5 years back = 3GB RAM and 2.0 G Core2duo)
note: DV and H.264 are not "light" at all.
electrotimba
Regular
Posts: 231
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 11:00 pm

Re: Opening a movie file brings Logic 9.1.8 to its knees...

Postby TBTS » Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:49 pm

electrotimba wrote:Open the file in QT and export as QT, Photo Jpg @ 80% quality. It is the most commonly used by VJs, very light on CPU etc.
I remember playing 720x404 file in Ableton Live (which just using default QT player) made 2-3% CPU difference (4-5 years back = 3GB RAM and 2.0 G Core2duo)
note: DV and H.264 are not "light" at all.

pretty much exactly what i was about to post, i've always used photo jpeg for video in logic, it's extremely efficient.
User avatar
TBTS
Regular
Posts: 237
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:00 am
Apple Certified Technician + songwriter ** Shiny New Website with new music, videos etc... **
http://www.turnbacktospring.com

Re: Opening a movie file brings Logic 9.1.8 to its knees...

Postby daedalus » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:24 pm

TBTS wrote:
electrotimba wrote:Open the file in QT and export as QT, Photo Jpg @ 80% quality. It is the most commonly used by VJs, very light on CPU etc.
I remember playing 720x404 file in Ableton Live (which just using default QT player) made 2-3% CPU difference (4-5 years back = 3GB RAM and 2.0 G Core2duo)
note: DV and H.264 are not "light" at all.

pretty much exactly what i was about to post, i've always used photo jpeg for video in logic, it's extremely efficient.

Thanks guys. Will try that tomorrow morning. Coincidentally, the size of the video is precisely 720 x 404. Will report back.
daedalus
Regular
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:00 am
Location: LA

Just a piano and some sketch paper please...



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests