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Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers?

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Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers?

Postby Dr Huge Longjohns » Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:57 pm

I am in the not-uncommon situation of needing to spend £400 on a new interface because Tascam aren't supporting my current one with drivers to work at 64 bit which Mountain Lion runs on exclusively. So if I buy one that's Class Compliant does that mean it will never suffer from absence of drivers ever?
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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers?

Postby Wease » Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:18 pm

- just as an aside

my focusrite saffire 10/10 (the really old one without adat connection) was/is not officially supported for mountain lion and 64 bit.

however, it works as it always has with ml and logic x, and so does the saffire pro software, even tho its the old one from 2007....- so id try the tascam on ML before you throw it away....

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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers?

Postby Dr Huge Longjohns » Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:27 pm

Well it won't even work with Lion without rebooting Lion into 32 bit first, but I suppose it's worth a try. Thanks for the heads up. Any idea about class compliant interfaces though? THe only ones I've found so far are the little ALesis IO ones.
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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers?

Postby alexis » Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:33 pm

Huge Longjohns wrote:Well it won't even work with Lion without rebooting Lion into 32 bit first, but I suppose it's worth a try. Thanks for the heads up. Any idea about class compliant interfaces though? THe only ones I've found so far are the little ALesis IO ones.

RME Fireface UCX is class compliant. (SOS Feb 12). Also possibly Tascam US800?
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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers?

Postby Exalted Wombat » Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:42 pm

Huge Longjohns wrote:I am in the not-uncommon situation of needing to spend £400 on a new interface because Tascam aren't supporting my current one with drivers to work at 64 bit which Mountain Lion runs on exclusively. So if I buy one that's Class Compliant does that mean it will never suffer from absence of drivers ever?

It seems to mean that you'll get basic features on a plug-and-play basis, but if you want the clever stuff (like the stuff people buy RME interfaces to get) you'll still need to install a software.

This is only based on skimming the RME forum topics that don't directly concern me though, so I may be wrong.
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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers?

Postby Scramble » Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:59 pm

Huge Longjohns wrote:So if I buy one that's Class Compliant does that mean it will never suffer from absence of drivers ever?

Fat chance of that!
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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers?

Postby Folderol » Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:03 pm

As EW said, you should certainly get the basics, read/write audio, discover/set bit rate & depth. Well, at least for as long as Microsoft and Apple support class compliance.

However, there is a gotcha with some kit. Some of it is only USB1 class compliant, not USB2 (so you'd need a driver for that) and I don't know how you'd discover which you're running apart from simply not getting the data rates advertised.
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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers?

Postby daedalus » Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:32 pm

Huge Longjohns wrote:Well it won't even work with Lion without rebooting Lion into 32 bit first, but I suppose it's worth a try. Thanks for the heads up. Any idea about class compliant interfaces though? THe only ones I've found so far are the little ALesis IO ones.

Don't know about class-compliance, though I'm interested. But I thought I'd save you the hassle of trying the Tascam with ML. It doesn't work. Ended up putting mine in a corner and going with something else. Unfortunate, as they were great units. It will be a long while before I buy something else from Tascam.
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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers?

Postby Wease » Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:02 pm

Ahh...I am sorry about that....I suppose I just got lucky with the focusrite...
Don't know of any piece of computer aided equipment (like audio devices) that I'd ever say are going to be class complient of any period of time, such is the nature of apple and Microsoft and their wish to release an operating system update every 5 mins.....but I suppose you'd probably be best using USB 3.....

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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers?

Postby Dr Huge Longjohns » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:49 pm

Been reading a bit more about this and clearly some of the Alesis class compliant 'no drivers needed' kit doesn't work!
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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:41 pm

Class Compliant interfaces need no bespoke drivers at all, ever, because they use the drivers embedded within the computer's operating system.

OSx and iOS devices are fully USB 2.0 class complaint, whereas Windows hasn't got beyond USB 1.1 class compliance.

1.1 compliance supports audio up to 24/96, while 2.0 class compliance supports up to 24/192 (and DSD).

However, class compliance will inherently have more latency than proper bespoke ASIO drivers...

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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers?

Postby Dr Huge Longjohns » Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:49 pm

So this suggests that the marketing of interfaces as CC is a bit misleading?
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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:38 pm

Why misleading?

They are what they are. They work to the level that the class compliance and relevant operating system allows them to work -- which may well be entirely adequate for many applications and users. But bespoke ASIO derivers will always allow tighter integration and lower latency, where such things are important.

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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers?

Postby Dr Huge Longjohns » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:33 pm

Why misleading?


Because there's an implication that drivers are unnecessary in any circumstance. Which, from what you're saying, is not the case?
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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers?

Postby thenaturallevel » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:06 pm

In regards to the RME interface and Class Compliance they state:-

Neither of these systems is relevant, though, since there are dedicated and matured drivers for both OS X and Windows, which provide ALL the device's features at lowest latencies. The main reason for implementing Class Compliant mode was to allow connecting the UCX to any Apple iPad!
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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers?

Postby Exalted Wombat » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:51 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:Why misleading?

They are what they are. They work to the level that the class compliance and relevant operating system allows them to work -- which may well be entirely adequate for many applications and users. But bespoke ASIO derivers will always allow tighter integration and lower latency, where such things are important.

H

It's difficult to see why quality multitrack devices would bother to offer class compliance. Maybe to work with an iPad?
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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:05 pm

Huge Longjohns wrote: Because there's an implication that drivers are unnecessary in any circumstance. Which, from what you're saying, is not the case?

But they aren't needed -- at least, not drivers you load (because they are already embedded in the computer's OS). The interface (or D/A, or whatever) will work exactly as intended without you adding any drivers. It is -- to the user -- a completely driverless system.

Some interfaces are now designed to work only in class compliant modes.

However... my understanding is that this approach, convenient though it is, may not offer the lowest possible latency that bespoke ASIO drivers allow. Whether class compliant latency is an issue for a given situation, only the user can say...

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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:06 pm

Exalted Wombat wrote:It's difficult to see why quality multitrack devices would bother to offer class compliance. Maybe to work with an iPad?

Yes, to work with devices like that that don't readily support bespoke drivers, and to offer convenience for quick plug-n-play applications... or for people that worry about their drivers being obsoleted when the next OS upgrade comes along!

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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers?

Postby dmills » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:18 pm

There are plenty of situations where lowest possible latency is an irrelevance, but where being able to grab any old laptop and have it just work is a massive win.

For example, a pure recording application such as one may use to record a live gig is a situation where latency does not matter a whit. Similarly playback in a theater is not very latency sensitive.

For both applications I could see class compliance as being a selling point for me as it makes moving to a random computer if I have a technical problem with my usual machines very much quicker and easier.

Just because low latency and having all the bells and whistles matters to your use case does not mean that class compliance is not of value to some users and some situations.

Regards, Dan.
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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers?

Postby Dr Huge Longjohns » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:09 am

moving to a random computer if I have a technical problem with my usual machines very much quicker and easier.


Blimey, how many random computers do you have lying around?
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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers?

Postby Folderol » Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:53 pm

Huge Longjohns wrote:
moving to a random computer if I have a technical problem with my usual machines very much quicker and easier.


Blimey, how many random computers do you have lying around?
And do they only boot up occasionally?
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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers?

Postby dmills » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:57 pm

$uptime
16:42:37 up 576 days, 4:09, 2 users, load average: 1.42, 1.24, 1.03
$

Yea some of them are only rebooted occasionally.

Seriously, in a professional context how can anyone survive with a single machine? It is a massive single point of failure, and if having a box go down is a show stopper, you had better have a spare or two around.

Best practice is to have a spare and swap it with your main machine every few months, that way you know it works and is reasonably up to date, a third spare in the rotation means you are still covered when one of them packs up.

Regards, Dan.
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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers?

Postby Dr Huge Longjohns » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:56 pm

Doesn't seem too onerous a task to keep manufacturer drivers up to date on only three computers if you're a pro, does it?
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