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Making a CD

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Making a CD

Postby BigAl » Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:58 pm

Guys,
(using MacBook Pro with Login Pro X).
If you are going to record, say, six tracks and put them on a CD, how do you do it, specifically in the process?

Let's say I record six songs, and mix them. I get the start/end points and any fade outs perfect, so the songs ready to go.
OR
Forget getting start/end points and fade-outs perfect and leave that until you go to compile the CD (setting start/end points, fade-outs, set volumes, EQ, compression, etc).?

Does Logic have the capabilities to order mastered songs with the correct time in-between, then burn a CD with markers?
OR
Do you take all your perfect mixes and use another piece of software to make the CD?

I did a trilogy once on my old equipment where three songs ran into each other (non-computer equipment). I did this by:-
Recording three songs.
Mix to create stereo masters.
Load back into recording machine (song1=tracks1&2, song2=tracks3&4, etc) and moved the songs around to the correct order/position.
Burned master CD using CD writer and manually put makers in while burning, so I ended up with three songs but one continuous listen.

Q: How can I achieve this in Logic?

Only suggestions and pointers are required.

Cheers.

Alan
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Re: Making a CD

Postby desmond » Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:42 pm

Logic doesn't burn CD's.

It *used* to come with Waveburner, an app specifically designed to master CD's, however, Apple don't like optical media any more and it was killed.

You will need some other app to burn audio CD's, whether something simple like Toast or something more involved like Wavelab etc...
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Re: Making a CD

Postby Scope » Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:19 pm

There are load of free cd apps for mac, just google it.....
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Re: Making a CD

Postby Bob Bickerton » Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:42 pm

I bought DSP Quattro sometime ago, but still find myself reverting to Waveburner which still works in Mavericks.

Much prefer Waveburner's workflow.

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Re: Making a CD

Postby ConcertinaChap » Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:03 am

If you're recording others then they are going to want to hear the song after mixing to sound pretty close to how it'll sound on the CD. So fades in and out and everything that isn't mastering related needs to be in the mix. May as well get in the habit of it now.

Wave burner is good but sadly not available to the OP. Why couldn't they have just stuck it in the app store and forgot about it?

CC
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Re: Making a CD

Postby mpvano » Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:58 pm

OSX comes with an excellent unix command based optical disk burning program called "drutil". It's used internally as the back end for most disk burning operations.

Among other things it will burn CDs from standard wave/cue files. Constructing a cue file is not that difficult, but it does require knowing and typing the desired cue locations into a text file, The price is right!

If you're comfortable using terminal commands, "man drutil" for more information. The cue file format is documented several places online.

If there's a way to get marker location info out of your daw as text, this can be the basis of a poor man's master disk generation system (assuming you prepare the disk layout properly in the daw for export to wave file)...

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Re: Making a CD

Postby Dr Huge Longjohns » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:43 pm

If you don't want to mass produce necessarily, don't forget good old iTunes. Create a playlist, load your tracks in, load a CDR, click burn. You don't have much control about gaps between tracks etc but of course you can cheat by adding bits onto the Logic project master etc.
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Re: Making a CD

Postby James Perrett » Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:11 pm

mpvano wrote:OSX comes with an excellent unix command based optical disk burning program called "drutil". It's used internally as the back end for most disk burning operations.

Among other things it will burn CDs from standard wave/cue files. Constructing a cue file is not that difficult, but it does require knowing and typing the desired cue locations into a text file, The price is right!

On the PC there's a neat little program called CDWave that will allow you to visually (and audibly) select track start points and then create a .cue file. I wouldn't be surprised to find something similar on a Mac. Most of my mastering projects end up as .cue files as it is an almost universal format that can be read by a very wide range of programs.
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Re: Making a CD

Postby ConcertinaChap » Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:49 pm

Very interesting. I'd not heard of cue files before; I had encountered drutil but only as a way of checking the ISRC codes on a CD. Sounds like a googling session coming my way.

Cheers,

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Re: Making a CD

Postby G-Doubleyou » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:02 pm

Bob Bickerton wrote:I bought DSP Quattro sometime ago, but still find myself reverting to Waveburner which still works in Mavericks.

Much prefer Waveburner's workflow.

Bob

I have both apps also, for quick and dirty CDs I use Toast, you can adjust gain, fades and crossfades.

You can also have three AUs in the signal chain.

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Re: Making a CD

Postby mpvano » Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:40 pm

More about drutil for those of you who use command lines...

I.

I frequently need to send approval copies (and sometimes the final delivery version) of CDs to clients via the various cloud services. The following requires NO additional software to be installed on their machine if they have access to a Macintosh.

I zip up a copy of the final wave file, the cue file and the following batch file and share it with them. PC users often have burning utilities that accept the CUE file and can just ignore the batch file.

So that I don't need to rewrite it every time, the batch file was written to require it have the same prefix name as the cue file, followed by the extension ".command". The cue file must be written in such a way that the enclosed wave file will be found if it's in the same folder - typically I name it xxxx.wav where xxxx.cue is the name of the cue file.

cd `dirname "$0"`
cuefilename=`basename -s ".command" "$0"`
echo $cuefilename
drutil -drive internal burn "$cuefilename.cue"

This is also useful just as a simple way to make more copies of the CDs without needing to thinking about it much.

II.

The DAWs that I use (mostly various versions of Cubase and Pro Tools) have the ability to export marker names and location info in type 0 midi files. I've written a utility program that extracts this information from a suitable midi file and builds a cue file from only those marker names that have a command line specified prefix (i use "CD_"). I believe that there are standard midi utilities that can do similar things...

Since I principally record live events and concerts, I find it most convenient to edit entire multitrack concerts recordings as single projects - since most of the tracks will have identical processing requirements.

I immediately locate and identify the tracks to be release candidates and mark their position with markers having the name I want for cd text preceded by my chosen prefix ("CD_")

I edit the entire project as needed (leaving only the release candidate tracks in master disk order, separated by suitable gaps of digital silence between them).

I do all desired mastering processing except final safety limiting and dithering in bussed "groups" so that I can easily enable/disable all mastering processing while I'm mixing, but still keep tabs on what it will do. I do the limiting/dithering post fader in the DAW track that directly feeds the output device (e.g. in the Cubase "Stereo Out" track).

In my DAWs, I need to create an empty midi track the same length as the project to get them to do a midi export.

I then:

export the type 0 midi
convert it to a cue file
touch up the cue file as needed (eg. with isrcs)
export the audio as a wave file
burn CD masters from the cue and wave file


III.

The reasonably priced general purpose stereo editing utility program called "Amadeus Pro" available from the Mac App store can also be used to create markers and import/export them from cue files.

IV.

Here's a fragment from the cue file for a recent work in progress. The working titles include absolute track numbers to automate making mp3s for reviewers who don't use iTunes and are needed to ensure the mp3s sort properly on their players.

TITLE "SET1"
FILE "SET1.wav" WAVE

TRACK 01 AUDIO
TITLE "01 MC Intro"
PREGAP 00:02:00
INDEX 01 00:00:00

TRACK 02 AUDIO
TITLE "02 tune intro"
INDEX 01 02:24:00

TRACK 03 AUDIO
TITLE "03 Reels: The Maids of Hollywell, I Wish I Never Saw You"
INDEX 01 03:58:29

etc., etc. as required.

V.

If someone knows what to do with it, I'd be glad to email them my latest source code (completely unsupported) for the midi2toc utility, but please don't expect ANY help. It's a C program and if you don't know your way around your local development environment (Xcode on the Macintosh) you'll probably only get into trouble.

Hope this info inspires someone. I've been making Albums this way for quite a few years...

M
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Re: Making a CD

Postby ConcertinaChap » Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:52 am

mpvano wrote:Hope this info inspires someone.

Yes indeed. Although Waveburner mostly does what I want, it's nice to have alternatives especially if one feels comfortable with shellscripting.

Thanks.

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+1

Postby Jeraldo » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:22 pm

mpvano wrote:

The reasonably priced general purpose stereo editing utility program called "Amadeus Pro" available from the Mac App store can also be used to create markers and import/export them from cue files.


(thanks to you for all of the great suggestions!)

+1. (Except that Amadeus Pro is not just a stereo editing utility - it is a fully functional multi-track editor/mixer.)

IMO, it is hands down the fastest and easiest way to burn a CD.

Warning: users may have initial difficulty with it because it isn't particularly like any other application - at all! Refer to the manual.

Hint: for CD assembly, visit the "Join Files" menue option, and then drag around markers if you need to. Then "Burn to CD" and "Consider all Markers." (The "Join Files" and other file functions are sample accurate.)

Available for a free trial. It's a very valuable addition to a software toolbox.

*You must use a plugin for dither. (Alternatively, because I like iZotope dither options, I often export a 24/32 float to iZotope and then reopen in AP. All markers are retained.)

Beyond burning CD's, this app does a *lot," and if it does it, it will be much easier and faster using Amadeus Pro than anything else. Good multi track editor/mixer.
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Re: Making a CD

Postby Jeraldo » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:33 am

BigAl wrote:

If you are going to record, say, six tracks and put them on a CD, how do you do it, specifically in the process?

Let's say I record six songs, and mix them. I get the start/end points and any fade outs perfect, so the songs ready to go.


1. Launch Amadeus Pro.

2. Select "Join Files," then drag your files in the order you want them in to the box. Click "Join."

3. Select "Burn to CD." (Make sure default "Consider All Markers" is checked.) Click "Burn."

Done.
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Re: Making a CD

Postby Mixedup » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:36 am

Very happy with Wavelab here for this stuff (though I'm not using Logic). Use Audio Montage view. Arrange clips and either use CD wizard or manually insert markers and allow audio or silence in between tracks etc. But it's not cheap if you only want it for burning simple CDs...
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Re: Making a CD

Postby BigAl » Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:21 am

Desmond,

You can burn a single track (bounce mode) straight to CD.

Alan
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Re: Making a CD

Postby BigAl » Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:24 am

Thanks for the pointers guys.
I may just go down the master, then import to iTunes.

Maybe thinking too deeply.........

It's just getting used to a slightly different way of working after years and years of not using a computer for recording.

Alan
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