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Asio-multi client... cheap internal PCIe sound card??!!

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Asio-multi client... cheap internal PCIe sound card??!!

Postby 007zac8 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:10 pm

Hi all

First post, total music production noob. I'm having the same problem that many others seem to have; wanting to listen to a video online whilst playing my MIDI keyboard at lowish-latency through a DAW.

Currently using ASIO4ALL, their free multi-client doesn't work for me (64-bit OS, tried downloading Ableton in 32-bit, which helped but still no solution).

My question is, would buying a cheap little PCIe internal sound card solve the problem?
Something like this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pro-PCI-Expre ... Sw-4BXY7ro

I could use ASIO4ALL with it and have my MIDI directed through it, whilst playing Chrome on the motherboard-based sound card using the standard MME/Direct X/WDM driver?

Or does it not work like that? I really don't have the money for a £80 external audio interface with native ASIO multi-client and all that.

Help is much appreciated!!!! Thank you!!!

Zac

Setup:
Nektar Impact LX88+
Ableton Live 9
Mid-tower desktop, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
i7, 128GB SSD, 2TB HDD, 8GB RAM, 550W PSU, HD Radeon 7870
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Re: Asio-multi client... cheap internal PCIe sound card??!!

Postby Temp » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:59 pm

Have you considered an older ASIO supported soundcard? I've heard of folks that've managed to get the M-Audio Audiophile 2496 working on their Win 10 systems. There's one here for £20:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M-Audio-Audio ... 2146788309

They're great little workhorses, and you'll probably be able to offload it for the same amount of money so it might be worth a shot. Here's a few posts discussing compatibility issues on Win 10:

http://community.m-audio.com/m-audio/to ... windows-10

http://community.m-audio.com/m-audio/to ... audio-card

http://community.m-audio.com/m-audio/to ... ull_site=1

Cheers.
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Re: Asio-multi client... cheap internal PCIe sound card??!!

Postby ef37a » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:25 am

Hi Zac, if you have a PCI slot spare (as opposed to PCI "e") I have a 2496 you can have for free.

I had a W10 PC briefly and the card did work with the OS using W7 drivers but I did not investigate further than playing a Samplitude file and listening to Radio 3.

Another very cheap solution could be the Behringer UCA 202 and I also have one of those I could donate to your cause!

PM me. BTW. Samplitude Pro x Silver is a cracking free DAW. Limited to 8 tracks but that's enough for many users.

Dave.
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Re: Asio-multi client... cheap internal PCIe sound card??!!

Postby 007zac8 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:21 pm

Hi guys

As long as you think a sound card would solve the problem, then great!
I'll have a look at the 2496 and maybe some other well-reviewed cards. Turns out, I actually will only have two PCIs free after I install my graphics card (not PCIe), so even better!

The 2496 has 4 RCA ports, 2 in and 2 out. I guess I'd get a 3.5mm jack adaptor to plug my speakers in, but what about my USB MIDI keyboard? Would I need some sort of USB-to-RCA adaptor to receive any benefit? Or can I just plug it the normal USB port and direct it's output accordingly?

Dave, thanks so much for the offer! I'll PM you ;)

Sorry for confused newbie questions. Haven't been on SOS long but the community vibe and help is great! :D

Zac
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Re: Asio-multi client... cheap internal PCIe sound card??!!

Postby mashedmitten » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:59 pm

You only need audio cables from the keyboard if using it's own sounds. If just triggering VSTi's, no.
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Re: Asio-multi client... cheap internal PCIe sound card??!!

Postby ef37a » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:00 am

Hi again Zac,

The 2496 can indeed be triggered from a MIDI (DIN) input from a keyboard or, (pretty sure) you can route a USB kbd to the card via the DAW you mentioned in your first post but I don't think that is Ableton? If you use the ASIO drivers for the card you should get very low latency.

A possible snag is Youtube sound. You will I am sure be able to tinkle ivories along with internet sounds, the problem might come in recording it all. The old (XP) card software had a mixer function and a handy system called "Monitor Mix" which allowed recording of anything coming out of the RCA outputs. The new, W7 software has a different control panel and no Mon Mixer!

You can however cheat and hardware connect RCA ins to outs (does not feedback) . I have not tried it but you might be able to do the same thing but loop S/PDIF.

I am sure at one time M-Audio made the old Control Panel available as an option post XP? If so I cannot find it, if anyone out there has a copy, do tell!

Are you handy with a solder iron Zac?

Dave.
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Re: Asio-multi client... cheap internal PCIe sound card??!!

Postby 007zac8 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:14 pm

Hi Guys

@mashedmitten no, the keyboard does not have it's own sounds. Everything will come from Ableton.

Dave, I am handy with a solder iron, but less so with DIY fixes I don't understand! haha :P
I'm not really looking to do any recording alongside Youtube sound right now; as long as I can have both Youtube and Ableton running. Fed up of closing down Ableton, re-enabling my speakers and then reloading Youtube to watch one simple video!

Will I really just be able to connect the 2496 to my speakers with an adaptor like this?
https://img.misco.eu/resources/images/p ... 0x1600.jpg

I have Edifier M1380 2.1 speaker system. The satellites connect to the sub via RCAs, and the sub connects to the source via a standard 3.5mm jack. Is there and amplifier built into the 2496? Bit confused on how the whole computer-soundcard-amplifier-speakers thing works :/

Cheers!

Zac


Thanks for your help guys!
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Re: Asio-multi client... cheap internal PCIe sound card??!!

Postby ef37a » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:21 am

Hi Zac, that cable is ALMOST right!

You will need 2 RCA plugs to a 3.5mm stereo jack plug cable. I have downloaded the manual for that speaker system and I can see no reason why the 2496 should not work very well with it.

Soldering? I only asked because you might have needed to make up some special cables but that does not seem likely now. Rest assured though, I am sure I can help you with anything you might need to do in the future.

BTW, have you PM'ed me Zac? I cannot find my PM list!
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Re: Asio-multi client... cheap internal PCIe sound card??!!

Postby 007zac8 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:03 pm

Hi Dave

Yeah PMs are kinda hard to find! Go to "Forum, My Control Panel, Overview-Private Messages, Compose Message-Inbox".

Sorry, what exactly was wrong with that adaptor I posted a link to? I thought 2 male RCAs to a female stereo 3.5mm jack was exactly what it was?!

Zac
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Re: Asio-multi client... cheap internal PCIe sound card??!!

Postby mashedmitten » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:31 pm

007zac8 wrote:
Sorry, what exactly was wrong with that adaptor I posted a link to? I thought 2 male RCAs to a female stereo 3.5mm jack was exactly what it was?!

Zac

I'm guessing it should be a male 3.5 jack.

How far from the interface are the speakers and how far are the speakers from each other? Reason I ask is that adapter looks a little short. You'd need extensions to reach the speakers. In that case the splitter should have female RCA's so you could use RCA patch cords to reach each speaker.
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Re: Asio-multi client... cheap internal PCIe sound card??!!

Postby 007zac8 » Thu May 04, 2017 8:50 pm

GOOD NEWS!
IT WORKS!

After what feels like months I've got it working! The M-Audio W7 drivers refused to install on my W10 machine and I was stuck clueless for ages, until somehow I found a system dialog window where Windows offered to install "similar" Audiophile drivers. I tried it, success!

I'm using the adaptor mentioned earlier. Better yet, I didn't even need to direct the audio through different drivers; the card has it's own multi-client ASIO!

I can finally do something as simple as watch a Youtube tutorial and play along. Getting decent 12.1ms latency at 48k 24-bit. I can see why so many audio professionals opt for Macs with their core audio!

Thanks to all who helped, especially ef37a. I hope this thread will help other newbies who are tearing their hair out.

Zac
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Re: Asio-multi client... cheap internal PCIe sound card??!!

Postby ef37a » Fri May 05, 2017 5:59 am

Hi Zac, so, so glad you are up and running!

I cannot recall which DAW software you are running? My son used a MIDI keyboard and found Cubase Essential 6 gave the lowest latency. You can download a 30 day trial and have a go. Cubase has a steeper learning curve than many DAWs but is very good once you 'get it'.

Also, why 48kHz? Does not matter much but most peeps run 44.1kHz apart from people with more money than sense who can afford OOODLES of storage for 96k and above!

BTW. I am pretty sure I forgot to pack the M-A instruction manual Zac? I shall put it in the post this very day.

Dave.
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Re: Asio-multi client... cheap internal PCIe sound card??!!

Postby 007zac8 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:53 pm

Hi Everyone

Sorry to post after so long, I thought I'd play with the system for a while and report any snags.
Generally smooth experience, but I encountered a few crashes. First of all, I only included 48kHz as an example, and secondly because I couldn't change it! Took me ages to find the Delta control panel, and it wouldn't allow me to change sample rate! I then learned this was because Ableton was open and the preferences window "became" my control panel.
I'm constantly having to turn on and off/reconfigure default audio, along with various other problems, sometimes causing Ableton or Spotify to crash, or even the entire system! The error page and event viewer clearly all say a problem with MAudioDelta.sys is causing the crashes.
I tried many workarounds, even installing FL Studio and using their ASIO driver. These are all driver problems as a result of using such an old card!
I think I'll stick with it until I've got a bit more money, and get a USB 3.0 external interface instead. Then I can edit on my desktop and play live on a laptop with the same equipment.
Yes Dave I got the manual, thanks! It's definitely helped me gain an understanding of the hardware side of things.

Zac
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Re: Asio-multi client... cheap internal PCIe sound card??!!

Postby ef37a » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:00 pm

I am ****! if I can find it in Samplitude but I know there is a function something like, 'Allow software to take control of devices' . Which means I think that the DAW tells the interface what to do and not 'tother way around.

Pretty sure I have seen a similar setting in Cubase. I do recall there is a 'lock' function in the Delta driver that stops the sample rate being changed by ad hoc music files.

Dave.
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Re: Asio-multi client... cheap internal PCIe sound card??!!

Postby mashedmitten » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:15 pm

I just Googled and it appears it's a common problem with that driver.


Incorrectly configured, old, or corrupted M-Audio Delta PCI driver device drivers. (very common)
Corruption in Windows registry from a recent MAudioDelta.sys-related software change (install or uninstall).
Virus or malware infection that has corrupted the MAudioDelta.sys file or related M-Audio Delta PCI driver program files.
Hardware conflict after installing new M-Audio hardware, or hardware related to MAudioDelta.sys.
Damaged or removed system files after you’ve installed software or drivers related to M-Audio Delta PCI driver.
MAudioDelta.sys blue screen caused by a damaged hard disk.
MAudioDelta.sys STOP error due to memory (RAM) corruption.

Were it me, first thing I'd do is run the Registry part of CCleaner. I'd just scan for issues first and then decide if I wanted to fix them. In all the time I've used it, it's never screwed anything up. Be prepared for 100's of issues if it's an old OS install. If that's the case, set a Restore Point and just clean it.

If cleaning all the broken paths didn't bring joy, I'd try re-installing the current driver through Command, in Overwrite Mode. Google the steps for your OS.

Another thing to try is to either set Windows not to use the device, or at least to use the same sample rate you use in the DAW.
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Re: Asio-multi client... cheap internal PCIe sound card??!!

Postby ef37a » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:28 pm

Another Ccleaner user of long standing here (got it from Marty, 'PC Notes' STILL missed! Just thought I would get that in!)

Yes, never known it to do any harm, only does good once in a very long while but has save A a couple of times.

Yes, Restore point but also Cc gives you the option to save the deleted files, no idea what I would DO with them but they take up only a tiny space so I always do so.

Dave.
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