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Ivy Bridge - is it too soon?

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Ivy Bridge - is it too soon?

Postby El Sid » Sat May 12, 2012 2:49 pm

I was planning a new build around an Asus P8Z68-V Gen3 mainboard and an i7 2600K, but have noticed that the new Ivy Bridge CPUs and compatible mainboards are coming out so I am considering a build now around an ASUS P8Z77-V LX and an i7 3770 (this CPU seems to be marginaly faster and also run cooler compared to the Sandy Bridge CPU according to reports).

My question is that it seems new mainboards often go through several revisions and generations before they are considered fully mature and stable, so is it too soon to go for the Ivy Bridge system considering that the boards are fairly recent and as yet unproven or am I worrying too much?

Any advice would be highly appreciated.

Thanks.

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Re: Ivy Bridge - is it too soon?

Postby tim_obrien » Sat May 12, 2012 3:27 pm

Just remember that if you run out and get something when it first hits the streets YOU are an unpaid beta tester.

Far smarter to buy something that's been out at least a year, has a proven track record and bug fixes.
(Unless you like hitting your head against the wall....)

By staying a year to 18months back from the bleeding edge you spend less time with tech support, tearing your hair out and staring at an unworking pile of tech you've put a lot of hard-earned money into....

(just my general philosophy. Please go ahead and test everything out for me for when I upgrade again... ;-) )
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Re: Ivy Bridge - is it too soon?

Postby Martin Walker » Tue May 15, 2012 1:01 am

Hi Sid!

That's sensible advice from Tim, although Ivy Bridge isn't really such a radical change from Sandy Bridge so you should be comparatively safe. DO remember though that BIOS updates often pop up quite quickly on motherboards featuring a new chipset/CPU, so be prepared to do this.

Also, it will probably pay you to pay close attention to the web sites of specialist audio PC builders, to see what motherboards they're using on their Ivy Bridge systems when they come out


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Re: Ivy Bridge - is it too soon?

Postby El Sid » Tue May 15, 2012 2:34 am

Thanks Tim, thanks Martin.

Well it seems that that Ivy Bridge processor is really only a tiny bit faster and runs not much cooler either according to what I have been reading so I will play it safe and go for the Sandy Bridge.

The Asus P8Z68-V that I am planning on buying will support Ivy Bridge anyway in case I feel like an upgrade later.

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Re: Ivy Bridge - is it too soon?

Postby funkinlesson » Tue May 15, 2012 7:52 pm

El Sid wrote:Well it seems that that Ivy Bridge processor is really only a tiny bit faster and runs not much cooler either according to what I have been reading so I will play it safe and go for the Sandy Bridge.
I was in the same boat as you a few weeks ago. I was trying to decide whether to get a 2600K/2700K or wait for the 3770K. In the end, I waited for the 3770K and I'm very pleased with it.

Where the Ivy Bridge CPUs seem a bit lacking compared to Sandy Bridge is with the temperatures when doing extreme over-clocking. You can ramp up the over-clock in stages and the temps will go up gradually, but then all of a sudden you hit a stage where the temps just shoot right up. With Ivy Bridge, the temperatures seemed to go up in a straight line.

But, that said, unless you're into extreme over-clocking I don't think there's any particularly compelling reason to choose Sandy Bridge over Ivy Bridge. Ivy Bridge offers better performance, runs slightly cooler (stock and with anything but an extreme over-clock) and has lower power consumption too. The HD-4000 on-chip graphics are also quite impressive, giving a WEI score of 6.5 and enabling me to run modern games at low-medium settings.
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Re: Ivy Bridge - is it too soon?

Postby Johnsy » Thu May 17, 2012 12:39 am

A couple of the posts above refer to the i7 3770k as running cooler than the Sandy Bridge equivalents (2600/2700k).

Not according to Anandtech, Tom's Hardware, SPCR and other well-regarded sites they don't:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1259-page4.html

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/53054-intel-i7-3770k-ivy-bridge-cpu-review-22.html

Tom's Hardware.com: Intel Core i7-3770K Review: A Small Step Up From Sandy Bridge, page 9 (LINK BROKEN).

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5763/undervolting-and-overclocking-on-ivy-bridge
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Re: Ivy Bridge - is it too soon?

Postby robinv » Thu May 17, 2012 9:06 am

Johnsy wrote:

Not according to Anandtech, Tom's Hardware, SPCR and other well-regarded sites they don't:

Well, it depends on what you're looking at. They all say that at idle stock speeds the Ivy Bridge is cooler and uses less power but when overclocked or maxed out then the temperatures do rise much quicker than Sandy Bridge. It's all very interesting - but it's also a shame because with Sandy Bridge overclocking has become easy and normal and within the hands of people who wouldn't normally consider it. It looks like with Ivy Bridge it's all become a bit more complicated again. However, looking at the evidence, particularly the excellent Anandtech article, there should not really be any cause for alarm for audio PC's. Those of us who have been overclocking Sandy Bridge systems have been doing so within a range of 4.4GHz - 4.6GHz, that's pretty conservative and not difficult to do with most settings on "Auto". The changes in the Ivy Bridge technology might introduce a bit more heat but at these speeds the difference is small and easily controlled with the existing cooling systems. It might take a bit more fiddling but ultimately Ivy Bridge is looking good at around 4.4/4.6 - it's working for me anyway
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Re: Ivy Bridge - is it too soon?

Postby Johnsy » Thu May 17, 2012 11:48 am

Well, what I'm looking at is - for example - the first link I posted above.

At stock speeds, using exactly the same cooler, with the same fan, at the same speed, SPCR have the 3770 running at 45C above ambient compared to the 39C recorded by the 2600.

When I was at school, that represented a ~15% increase for the former over the latter.

The story is the same - though the margin narrower - in the second link. These were the only stock temp. tests I came across, but both clearly show IB running hotter. Any quantified tests showing otherwise you could point me at?

Overclock - or rather overvolt - the fellas and, as you say, you're quickly into egg-frying territory.

Personally, I'm not remotely surprised, since whilst TDP has decreased (by around 19%), the die shrink means that core power density (Watts per sq. mm, if you like) has increased by ~25%. In short, heat can't escape from the CPU cores (to the heatsink) as readily as with Sandy Bridge.
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Re: Ivy Bridge - is it too soon?

Postby robinv » Thu May 17, 2012 12:30 pm

Johnsy wrote:

At stock speeds, using exactly the same cooler, with the same fan, at the same speed, SPCR have the 3770 running at 45C above ambient compared to the 39C recorded by the 2600.

Sure, but those temperatures are not idle temperatures, they are under load. Doesn't really matter - my only point is that the temperatures can be kept under control for the sort of overclocking most audio PC builders do so i don't personally see it as any kind of problem and ultimately i have to make the best of whatever Intel come up with.
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Re: Ivy Bridge - is it too soon?

Postby Johnsy » Fri May 18, 2012 12:49 am


My dear fellow, I can only apologise. Somehow the old brain completely filtered the word 'idle' from the sentence.

Everything you say is correct; your pragmatic conclusion unarguably so. It just irks the engineer in me when a new solution is less optimally suited to my particular purposes than its predecessor (on the basis that lower core temps and easier overclocking are of more practical benefit in a DAW context than an increase in integrated graphics horsepower and a not-especially-spectacular reduction in power draw.)
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Re: Ivy Bridge - is it too soon?

Postby robinv » Fri May 18, 2012 8:43 am

Johnsy wrote:

Everything you say is correct; your pragmatic conclusion unarguably so. It just irks the engineer in me when a new solution is less optimally suited to my particular purposes than its predecessor (on the basis that lower core temps and easier overclocking are of more practical benefit in a DAW context than an increase in integrated graphics horsepower and a not-especially-spectacular reduction in power draw.)

Yeah, totally - although there are some other positive things about the chipset that make it a good, albeit small, step forward, and trying sandy bridge processors in an ivy bridge board wasn't working so well. Swings and roundabouts
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Re: Ivy Bridge - is it too soon?

Postby Johnsy » Fri May 18, 2012 1:05 pm

robinv wrote:trying sandy bridge processors in an ivy bridge board wasn't working so well.


That's interesting. What was the problem?

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Re: Ivy Bridge - is it too soon?

Postby robinv » Fri May 18, 2012 2:34 pm

Johnsy wrote:

That's interesting. What was the problem?

Wouldn't boot reliably when overclocked - it would all work ok just take a few attempts at it on every boot which is never a good sign - adjusted every setting i could find. Dropped an ivy bridge processor in and it was instantly cured
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Re: Ivy Bridge - is it too soon?

Postby A. AuCr » Sat May 19, 2012 2:51 am

Johnsy wrote:At stock speeds, using exactly the same cooler, with the same fan, at the same speed, SPCR have the 3770 running at 45C above ambient compared to the 39C recorded by the 2600.

When I was at school, that represented a ~15% increase for the former over the latter.

Point of order, that's a 1.9% increase. (Something about the Kelvin scale goes here).

Do we know that the retail packaging is constructed the same as the engineering samples yet?

Personally, I'm just hoping for a price drop on the Sandy Bridge chips as more Ivy's start rolling off the line.
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Re: Ivy Bridge - is it too soon?

Postby Johnsy » Sat May 19, 2012 12:39 pm

robinv wrote:
Johnsy wrote:

That's interesting. What was the problem?

Wouldn't boot reliably when overclocked - it would all work ok just take a few attempts at it on every boot which is never a good sign - adjusted every setting i could find. Dropped an ivy bridge processor in and it was instantly cured

What was the board?
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