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New PC build - Confused

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New PC build - Confused

Postby Badeshi » Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:28 pm

sorry to add to the amount of "will this work??..." threads... but

so I am gonna upgrade comp and was about to buy i7 3770K and Asus P8z77 LX which scan have as a bundle for about £300.

just as i was about to press buy my mate started saying it would be better to go for an i5 and better MOBO... but that costs about £300 also!

making better saving on i7 but balance might be better on i5??
the LX seems to get good reviews but is obviously budget model...

I have an old SCSI card I would like to keep and currently my soundcard is PCI but may update that soonish...

I mainly run Ableton making sample and VST heavy tracks. My core2duo now maxes out regularly....

been looking at too many sites and specs so proper confused now

any help or thoughts would be much appreichiated
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Re: New PC build - Confused

Postby Mock Element » Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:26 pm

I didn't bother with the 3770k and got a 3570k. This was because I thought HT was a little hyped up for what it actually did in real terms. I'm unsure about this but I still think the extra I put towards a mobo like the P8Z77 V-Pro was a good idea after I saw the review on Anandtech which assessed it to have the lowest DPC latency among many other Ivy Bridge boards.

I'd just go for an i5 and get a slightly better mobo. The reason to get a k version CPU is for overclocking. The LX isn't a board designed with that in mind. So, you could go for a slightly cheaper non K version of either an i5 or i7.

I'll leave it to others to really talk about whether HT is worth it. I kinda think 4 solid cores and a good overclockable chip, which is easy to do with a stable board is enough juice for most.
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Re: New PC build - Confused

Postby Badeshi » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:56 pm

Thanks for that. I think you are right, I was just being tight and it seemed like LX and i7 was the best saving!
gonna do it!

nice one
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Re: New PC build - Confused

Postby Goddard » Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:32 am

Be aware that Z77 lacks "native" PCI, so you might encounter issues with your older PCI cards. For PCI support, look at B75 motherboards instead.

Applications that are multi-threaded (like Ableton) will perform better on i7-3770(k) with hyper-threading than on an i5 without hyper-threading.

More RAM will help for samples.
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Re: New PC build - Confused

Postby Pete Kaine » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:23 am

The LX is fine if it has everything you need on it and the hyperthreading is worth it over a better board IMO for audio and video work.
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Re: New PC build - Confused

Postby Martin Walker » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:48 am

I totally agree with that - as long as the LX has all the features you need there's no reason to pay a lot more for a motherboard.


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Re: New PC build - Confused

Postby oggyb » Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:54 pm

Regarding the perennial hyperthreading/no-hyperthreading question, I've been planning to go i5 and focus on getting a nice stable overclock instead. Is this the wrong thing to do these days?
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Re: New PC build - Confused

Postby Pete Kaine » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:03 pm

Not at all you, you can go that way if you wish. It's just that if you went with the hyperthreading solution you'd pay the extra and get the added hyperthreaded performance and you could still overclock it.

If you need the power the 3770K is a better bang per buck solution... if you need the power.
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Re: New PC build - Confused

Postby Mock Element » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:12 pm

I'm skeptical about the benefits of HT considering a CPU that could be overclocked without HT to meet the not-so-far-off performance of an i7 isn't such an overclocking leap, If you need that extra juice.

The benefit of the extra cache and HT could well be worth that extra outlay, but £70 is still a lot of money and I hear many reports of overclocked CPUs stuggling if HT is enabled. I also hear about issues with HT enabled with low latency recording. It would seem that the reason to get a K CPU is to OC it, thiscould cause more problems if HT is enabled than otherwise would be there with an i5.

So, is it worth purchasing a chip that doesn't have HT and is overclockable, like an 3570K, given that the benefits of HT seem to not offer a substantial benefit to justify that extra cash that could be spent elsewhere, especially when it comes to audio PCs where it could be spent on other hardware and software or more importantly, if the system is to be run where recordings are taking place, on getting 'silent' components. Or, do you buy the HT enabled i7 and take the chance that it's an impractical feature if looking to overclock. It also adds to the temperatures of an overclock when HT is enabled. So many justify turning it off simply to eliminate this side effect.

If buying a K chip, overclock it as it'll do a lot more than it can out of the box. If you just want the benefits of HT but don't want to overclock, then do you spend that cash on an i7 non K version with HT or spend less money on an overclockable chip that would compete pretty closely to the more expensive option and save a bit of cash?

What do you think?
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Re: New PC build - Confused

Postby Pete Kaine » Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:50 am

It sounds like you've already made your mind up!

At the risk of repeating what I said above, I'll extrapolate a bit. A hyperthreaded CPU gives might cost 50% more but it gives you in excess of 50% more performance when using properly multithreaded software, which most DAW software is.

Even if you clock the nuts off a 3570k a stock 3770 with turbo enabled will still beat it althrough yes, it is close. However if you get the K edition you can squeeze that for another 40% with ease. Sure your paying 50% more but then your getting more than 50% extra performance when you compare the two chips.

If you don't need to have the extra performance then save you money and go for the lower end chip as you've suggested, but with the way synths keep getting more CPU hungry you may regret this a year or two down the line... or you may not, only you can judge that as nobody on here knows what your requirements are right now or will be in 24 months time.
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Re: New PC build - Confused

Postby Goddard » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:56 pm

I actually posed this very question (i5-3570k vs. i7-3770k) recently to a DAW builder in another forum, and he was kind enough to point to some performance info based on earlier DAW benchmarking of the corresponding i5-2500k Sandy Bridge version:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-co ... hoice.html
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Re: New PC build - Confused

Postby Mock Element » Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:46 pm

Hmm, part of me thinks that benchmarks don't really tell the whole picture....The other part of me is thinking about selling the i5 to get the i7. Really for me it's fine for what I do. I can always see it as a potential upgrade in the future. Then I can get those same bragging rights...Well, for a month or two til something better comes out!
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Re: New PC build - Confused

Postby Pete Kaine » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:45 am

Goddard wrote:I actually posed this very question (i5-3570k vs. i7-3770k) recently to a DAW builder in another forum, and he was kind enough to point to some performance info based on earlier DAW benchmarking of the corresponding i5-2500k Sandy Bridge version:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/799117-daw-in...


Has Scott refreshed his chart? The 2500 appears to have dropped off it

I maintain one as well but it only has the 2500 at stock (+turbo) and the 2600 at stock and overclocked.

http://www.scanproaudio.info/?p=551

I keep meaning to update it for Ivybridge but for the small difference in speed it hasn't been worth doing so far... I need to re-run everything in the light of the dawBench refresh anyway. Will probably do that for Haswell when it surfaces.
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Re: New PC build - Confused

Postby Goddard » Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:30 am

Pete Kaine wrote:
Goddard wrote:I actually posed this very question (i5-3570k vs. i7-3770k) recently to a DAW builder in another forum, and he was kind enough to point to some performance info based on earlier DAW benchmarking of the corresponding i5-2500k Sandy Bridge version:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/799117-daw-in...

Has Scott refreshed his chart? The 2500 appears to have dropped off it

I maintain one as well but it only has the 2500 at stock (+turbo) and the 2600 at stock and overclocked.

http://www.scanproaudio.info/?p=551

I keep meaning to update it for Ivybridge but for the small difference in speed it hasn't been worth doing so far... I need to re-run everything in the light of the dawBench refresh anyway. Will probably do that for Haswell when it surfaces.

I don't think Scott was referencing his chart for the 2500K numbers, only for what he deemed as the analogous i5-750.

Thanks for the link to your chart. Interesting!

I would be very interested in any updated DAWbench performance info (especially wrt the updated test suites), as I'm sure many would be. So TIA!
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Re: New PC build - Confused

Postby Pete Kaine » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:19 am

Goddard wrote:
I don't think Scott was referencing his chart for the 2500K numbers, only for what he deemed as the analogous i5-750.

Ahhh, I should have spotted that, it makes sense. It's labeled as a i7-750 on the chart and I wasn't paying attention enough to work out it should have been the i5 one

Goddard wrote:
Thanks for the link to your chart. Interesting!

I would be very interested in any updated DAWbench performance info (especially wrt the updated test suites), as I'm sure many would be. So TIA!


Yeah not a problem, we always release scores when we get a chance to do a group tests, so its just a waiting game in regards to when we can start to discuss the new chipsets openly.
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Re: New PC build - Confused

Postby Jez Corbett » Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:34 pm

Badeshi wrote:i7 3770K and Asus P8z77 LX which scan have as a bundle for about £300.


Hi, just out of interest, is this bundle still available?

Didn't see it obviously on the site.
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Re: New PC build - Confused

Postby Pete Kaine » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:19 am

I don't see it either. If you can remember exactly what was in it, I'll see if one of the sales guys will match it again for you. (exchange rates permitting)
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