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Microsoft

Postby johnny h » Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:55 am

As expected, Ballmer hasn't survived the Windows 8 / Windows phone / Windows RT disasters and will be leaving within a year. The share price indicates more is expected of his successor.

Perhaps a little more clarity of vision could go into Windows 9, if it ever comes.
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Re: Microsoft

Postby TheChorltonWheelie » Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:48 am

johnny h wrote:As expected, Ballmer hasn't survived the Windows 8 / Windows phone / Windows RT disasters and will be leaving within a year. The share price indicates more is expected of his successor.

Perhaps a little more clarity of vision could go into Windows 9, if it ever comes.

By that logic, Tim Cook will be leaving Apple very soon as they have been eclipsed by Samsung in the mobile and tablet market, and they've also reported their lowest profit margins for over a decade.

Yet more yawn-some pro-Apple rhetoric.
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Re: Microsoft

Postby johnny h » Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:50 pm

TheChorltonWheelie wrote:
johnny h wrote:As expected, Ballmer hasn't survived the Windows 8 / Windows phone / Windows RT disasters and will be leaving within a year. The share price indicates more is expected of his successor.

Perhaps a little more clarity of vision could go into Windows 9, if it ever comes.

By that logic, Tim Cook will be leaving Apple very soon as they have been eclipsed by Samsung in the mobile and tablet market, and they've also reported their lowest profit margins for over a decade.

Yet more yawn-some pro-Apple rhetoric.
Typical anything-but-Apple-fanboi response. Where did I mention them?

Lots of people rely on Microsoft operating systems for their studio computer (including myself) so the future direction of the company is very relevant, particularly for people who wish to upgrade.
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Re: Microsoft

Postby OneWorld » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:51 pm

When I saw that video of him leaping about and whooping like some demented oik I thought here comes the village idiot. He reminded me of one of those teachers we used to have that was desperate to 'get down with the kids' and all we thought was why don't you just shut up and get on with it, instead of all the 'aren't I cool and zany bluster'
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Re: Microsoft

Postby Goddard » Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:03 pm

The funny thing is, I wouldn't mind Windows 8 on my fone, with Metro. Just not all that keen having a monopolistic market megalith deciding I wanted a tablet/fone OS on my PC. Nor apparently are the all the enterprise customers.

But fone fads are difficult to maintain, and market share can be fleeting. Just ask Nokia or RIM or Motorola or Sony Ericcson or... any telco concerned with boosting next quarter's 'average revenue per subscriber'.

And don't be fooled about Samsung, just because you can't see the Wizard of Woogle behind the curtain working the levers. Samsung might have gotten good with hardware but they're still just crap at code.
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Re: Microsoft

Postby Pangloss » Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:49 pm

I hope this isn't too wildly off-topic and please ignore me if it is.

It's just that I got round to installing Windows 8 a couple of days ago (on a non studio PC) and I was stunned by the requests for personal information that appeared to be necessary, just to proceed with installing an operation system onto my own computer. Maybe there is a way around doing this but mid-install I couldn't find one.

No doubt its all for my convenience and possibly, even SAFETY but I must say I felt resolutely disinclined to furnish them with accurate data. I wish things would go back a couple of decades in many respects, including in the IT respect.
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Re: Microsoft

Postby OneWorld » Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:55 pm

Pangloss wrote:I hope this isn't too wildly off-topic and please ignore me if it is.

It's just that I got round to installing Windows 8 a couple of days ago (on a non studio PC) and I was stunned by the requests for personal information that appeared to be necessary, just to proceed with installing an operation system onto my own computer. Maybe there is a way around doing this but mid-install I couldn't find one.

No doubt its all for my convenience and possibly, even SAFETY but I must say I felt resolutely disinclined to furnish them with accurate data. I wish things would go back a couple of decades in many respects, including in the IT respect.

Glad I read this. I was considering going up to Win8, but I too am wary of all this information they was to suck out of you, whatever happened to 'An Englishman's Home is His Castle?' maybe it is, but his computer isn't, it's a squatters paradise.

Thing is, we are eventually forced to upgrade, as you get somewhere and it demands the latest OS, -1

I'd be happy with Win98, it booted in about 10secs, and much to my surprise, I put some spare copies of Win98 on eBay when I was having a clearout, and they sold immediately! I thin I got about £20 a copy!!!

Now I know not to throw my copies of XP away, which itself is a reasonbly quick booter, but I thought one of the things Win8 addressed was the ever increaing boot times and Win8 did boot quicker than Win7?
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Re: Microsoft

Postby robinv » Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:06 pm

OneWorld wrote:

Now I know not to throw my copies of XP away, which itself is a reasonbly quick booter, but I thought one of the things Win8 addressed was the ever increaing boot times and Win8 did boot quicker than Win7?

Yes, Windows 8 does boot pretty fast, which is nice. I'm not sure about all the giving away your details stuff. I've installed a ton of system with Windows 8 and have never had to enter anything other than a login and a Product Key. I think if you want to partake in the Microsoft Store circus then you have to create an account and add some credit card and security details - just as you do on the iPad or on your phone - it's the same sort of thing in order to make purchases through the store. If you don't want that then don't set up a Microsoft account - problem solved.
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Re: Microsoft

Postby Pangloss » Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:28 pm

I'm probably being a dummkopf but I didn't seem to be able to find a way around it at the time. Furthermore, when I tried to set up a second user once the install was finished it wanted the same info. I'm not at home for the next few days but I will have a play around later.

I mean, isn't it a bit skincrawly that all users of the machine should be asked to give up personal deets? For an operating system?
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Re: Microsoft

Postby TheChorltonWheelie » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:31 am

Goddard wrote:And don't be fooled about Samsung, just because you can't see the Wizard of Woogle behind the curtain working the levers. Samsung might have gotten good with hardware but they're still just crap at code.

The Android marketplace is bigger than Apple, whilst Samsung are a larger, more established and more profitable company than Apple, and they're in considerably more markets than Apple are too.
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Re: Microsoft

Postby TheChorltonWheelie » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:33 am

Pangloss wrote:I was stunned by the requests for personal information that appeared to be necessary, just to proceed with installing an operation system onto my own computer

What, a COA, PC name and user account name? This comment is just silly.
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Re: Microsoft

Postby TheChorltonWheelie » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:36 am

OneWorld wrote:
Pangloss wrote:I hope this isn't too wildly off-topic and please ignore me if it is.

It's just that I got round to installing Windows 8 a couple of days ago (on a non studio PC) and I was stunned by the requests for personal information that appeared to be necessary, just to proceed with installing an operation system onto my own computer. Maybe there is a way around doing this but mid-install I couldn't find one.

No doubt its all for my convenience and possibly, even SAFETY but I must say I felt resolutely disinclined to furnish them with accurate data. I wish things would go back a couple of decades in many respects, including in the IT respect.

Glad I read this. I was considering going up to Win8, but I too am wary of all this information they was to suck out of you, whatever happened to 'An Englishman's Home is His Castle?' maybe it is, but his computer isn't, it's a squatters paradise.

I wouldn't be glad, I'd be disappointed that someone has furnished wholly inaccurate information.

Installing Win7/8 requires LESS personal information that Win98/XP etc.

But, don't let the facts get in the way of a good anti-Microsoft story.
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Re: Microsoft

Postby TheChorltonWheelie » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:39 am

johnny h wrote:Lots of people rely on Microsoft operating systems for their studio computer (including myself) so the future direction of the company is very relevant, particularly for people who wish to upgrade.

Microsoft have a longer OS run-off/retirement than Apple/Google, so I fail to see why it'd be any more of an issue than if you were on Apple/Google products.
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Re: Microsoft

Postby Pangloss » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:14 pm

TheChorltonWheelie wrote:What, a COA, PC name and user account name? This comment is just silly.


No.

If you have an account name you have already supplied personal information. If not you are asked for your, name, date of birth and postcode. You are also asked for a telephone number initially, although this can be replaced with a security question (e.g. mother's maiden name).

Obviously, none of this needs to be accurate necessarily but yes, I do find the whole thing creepy.
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Re: Microsoft

Postby johnny h » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:12 pm

TheChorltonWheelie wrote:
johnny h wrote:Lots of people rely on Microsoft operating systems for their studio computer (including myself) so the future direction of the company is very relevant, particularly for people who wish to upgrade.

Microsoft have a longer OS run-off/retirement than Apple/Google, so I fail to see why it'd be any more of an issue than if you were on Apple/Google products.

So we can't talk about Microsoft without mentioning Apple and Google at every turn?
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Re: Microsoft

Postby johnny h » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:15 pm

TheChorltonWheelie wrote:
Goddard wrote:And don't be fooled about Samsung, just because you can't see the Wizard of Woogle behind the curtain working the levers. Samsung might have gotten good with hardware but they're still just crap at code.

The Android marketplace is bigger than Apple, whilst Samsung are a larger, more established and more profitable company than Apple, and they're in considerably more markets than Apple are too.

Great! That means we have to stop talking about Microsoft at once!
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Re: Microsoft

Postby Goddard » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:34 pm

TheChorltonWheelie wrote:
Goddard wrote:And don't be fooled about Samsung, just because you can't see the Wizard of Woogle behind the curtain working the levers. Samsung might have gotten good with hardware but they're still just crap at code.

The Android marketplace is bigger than Apple, whilst Samsung are a larger, more established and more profitable company than Apple, and they're in considerably more markets than Apple are too.

Ha!

If you're so knowledgeable about Samsung, who might (still) be their biggest customer?
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Re: Microsoft

Postby Pete Kaine » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:02 am

Pangloss wrote:
TheChorltonWheelie wrote:What, a COA, PC name and user account name? This comment is just silly.

No.

If you have an account name you have already supplied personal information. If not you are asked for your, name, date of birth and postcode. You are also asked for a telephone number initially, although this can be replaced with a security question (e.g. mother's maiden name).

Obviously, none of this needs to be accurate necessarily but yes, I do find the whole thing creepy.

I can see the confusion here althrough TCW is right in this case. The extra details you inputted Pangloss weren't required to complete the install, but you are right in that they make it awkward to proceed if you don't follow the instructions closely.
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Re: Microsoft

Postby Pangloss » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:33 am

Thanks Pete for the polite response. As I said, I don't have access to the machine in question at the moment but as soon as I do I may repeat the whole process to see exactly where the jump off point might be. I went round the same loop a few times and was unsuccessful in proceeding without setting up an unwanted Microsoft account (which did require all of the information mentioned above).
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Re: Microsoft

Postby robinv » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:51 am

If you create a "local account" then it bypasses all the Microsoft account details:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/create-user-accou...
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Re: Microsoft

Postby Pangloss » Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:17 pm

Thanks robinv.

So in the first instance (i.e. at installation, rather than for new users) there should also be an option to set up local account only? I will look out for that.
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Re: Microsoft

Postby robinv » Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:00 pm

Pangloss wrote:Thanks robinv.

So in the first instance (i.e. at installation, rather than for new users) there should also be an option to set up local account only? I will look out for that.
Yes, totally.
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Re: Microsoft

Postby TheChorltonWheelie » Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:53 pm

Goddard wrote:If you're so knowledgeable about Samsung, who might (still) be their biggest customer?

They're not Samsung's biggest customer, nowhere near it, and of course you're talking about Apple. Samsung are probably the biggest chip manufacturer now, they own just about every one else too, and so no matter what product you buy you'll have a Samsung-derived (or owned) chipset in it.
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Re: Microsoft

Postby johnny h » Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:14 pm

TheChorltonWheelie wrote:
Goddard wrote:If you're so knowledgeable about Samsung, who might (still) be their biggest customer?

They're not Samsung's biggest customer, nowhere near it, and of course you're talking about Apple. Samsung are probably the biggest chip manufacturer now, they own just about every one else too, and so no matter what product you buy you'll have a Samsung-derived (or owned) chipset in it.
This is widely off topic, not only to this thread but the entire forum! I'm sure its great for Samsung that they make iphone screens, tvs and whatever else, but I don't see what relevance that has to audio matters.
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Re: Microsoft

Postby Pete Kaine » Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:14 am

Aye, surely if we're going for Samsungs biggest customer we'd probably have to point at the South Korean goverment and their requirement for Robocop type military hardware.

Samsung is OCP
(or at the very least Zaibatsu)
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Re: Microsoft

Postby Will_m » Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:30 pm

johnny h wrote:
This is widely off topic, not only to this thread but the entire forum! I'm sure its great for Samsung that they make iphone screens, tvs and whatever else, but I don't see what relevance that has to audio matters.

To be fair your OP wasn't exactly audio relevant, more just a parting jab at a Microsoft CEO that had little to no point to it.
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Re: Microsoft

Postby johnny h » Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:25 pm

Will_m wrote:
johnny h wrote:
This is widely off topic, not only to this thread but the entire forum! I'm sure its great for Samsung that they make iphone screens, tvs and whatever else, but I don't see what relevance that has to audio matters.

To be fair your OP wasn't exactly audio relevant, more just a parting jab at a Microsoft CEO that had little to no point to it.
The future of Microsoft has no relevance to "PC music"?
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Re: Microsoft

Postby grab » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:31 pm

johnny h wrote:The future of Microsoft has no relevance to "PC music"?

Actually that's entirely correct.

What does the OS do for music? Can an OS help you mix? Does the OS provide VSTs? Hell, does the OS even necessarily provide the latest codecs? Hint: The answer to all the above is "no".

If you want to play music on a PC, you can use the Media player application that comes with Windows, or you can download a whole bunch of other applications which would also do the job (and often better). If you want to record and mix music on a PC, you'll install applications like Reaper, ProTools or whatever. The OS does nothing. The applications do everything.

As a software engineer, the future of all these applications is cross-platform. Whether it's libraries like Qt, portable binary-ish languages like Java or Python, web-enabled stuff in Javascript or whatever, the future is writing your code once and having that application run on every platform. The one single solitary reason for Microsoft's existence is that most applications aren't built that way. Yet. Windows is only still alive bcos people need Windows to run applications that are only built to run on Windows.

Why isn't everything cross-platform? Honestly, bcos cross-platform software development tools only really got going about 15 years back, and for a long time they were pretty ropey. These days they're rather good though - I'd much rather use Qt Creator than MS Visual Studio. But all the big-name applications started back in those days, or even earlier (Cakewalk is 26 years old), so their code is intimately tied to a particular platform. It'll cost money to switch over, so currently they don't - but you can bet that competent companies will keep doing the cost-benefit calculations if their market share dwindles, and invest in this when it makes financial sense. And of course incompetent companies will stay tied to a single platform and may well go to the wall. (In the extreme case, think of all the Commodore Amiga applications which died when Commodore died.)

So unless Microsoft buy Logic or some music production application, then no, whether Microsoft lives or dies will have zero effect on your ability to make music on your PC.
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Re: Microsoft

Postby Scramble » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:43 pm

grab wrote:As a software engineer, the future of all these applications is cross-platform. Whether it's libraries like Qt, portable binary-ish languages like Java or Python, web-enabled stuff in Javascript or whatever, the future is writing your code once and having that application run on every platform. The one single solitary reason for Microsoft's existence is that most applications aren't built that way. Yet. Windows is only still alive bcos people need Windows to run applications that are only built to run on Windows.

This all seems rather optimistic. Java is rapidly being abandoned as a web tool because its multi-platform nature makes it vulnerable to malware attack.

grab wrote: Why isn't everything cross-platform? Honestly, bcos cross-platform software development tools only really got going about 15 years back, and for a long time they were pretty ropey. These days they're rather good though - I'd much rather use Qt Creator than MS Visual Studio. But all the big-name applications started back in those days, or even earlier (Cakewalk is 26 years old), so their code is intimately tied to a particular platform. It'll cost money to switch over, so currently they don't - but you can bet that competent companies will keep doing the cost-benefit calculations if their market share dwindles, and invest in this when it makes financial sense.

But whether it does make financial sense in the years to come is the issue. It's all very well declaring that it will make financial sense to go cross-platform in the future. Maybe it will, maybe it won't, it depends on a multitude of factors which are difficult to predict at this stage.
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Re: Microsoft

Postby johnny h » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:13 pm

grab wrote:
johnny h wrote:The future of Microsoft has no relevance to "PC music"?

Actually that's entirely correct.

What does the OS do for music? Can an OS help you mix? Does the OS provide VSTs? Hell, does the OS even necessarily provide the latest codecs? Hint: The answer to all the above is "no".

If you want to play music on a PC, you can use the Media player application that comes with Windows, or you can download a whole bunch of other applications which would also do the job (and often better). If you want to record and mix music on a PC, you'll install applications like Reaper, ProTools or whatever. The OS does nothing. The applications do everything.

As a software engineer, the future of all these applications is cross-platform. Whether it's libraries like Qt, portable binary-ish languages like Java or Python, web-enabled stuff in Javascript or whatever, the future is writing your code once and having that application run on every platform. The one single solitary reason for Microsoft's existence is that most applications aren't built that way. Yet. Windows is only still alive bcos people need Windows to run applications that are only built to run on Windows.

Why isn't everything cross-platform? Honestly, bcos cross-platform software development tools only really got going about 15 years back, and for a long time they were pretty ropey. These days they're rather good though - I'd much rather use Qt Creator than MS Visual Studio. But all the big-name applications started back in those days, or even earlier (Cakewalk is 26 years old), so their code is intimately tied to a particular platform. It'll cost money to switch over, so currently they don't - but you can bet that competent companies will keep doing the cost-benefit calculations if their market share dwindles, and invest in this when it makes financial sense. And of course incompetent companies will stay tied to a single platform and may well go to the wall. (In the extreme case, think of all the Commodore Amiga applications which died when Commodore died.)

So unless Microsoft buy Logic or some music production application, then no, whether Microsoft lives or dies will have zero effect on your ability to make music on your PC.

Hmm, so Cubase works on Linux? What PC operating systems run any of the big name audio applications? Your argument is just ridiculous, to be honest. Look at the fuss made about Windows 8 and tell me people here don't care what Microsoft's next move is.
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