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New SSD

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New SSD

Postby pattexer » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:20 pm

Hi!
After my last SSD went toast, I am now in need of new one. Or perhaps two?
I'm thinking about purchasing two drives and use them in Raid 0 to get as much performance as possible. I've been looking on the Samsung 840 EVO 250GB, which seems quite good, but I figured it could be wise to ask the professionals before I go out and spend $250 on a storage device. Any other suggestions for around the same price or should I go for a pair of EVO's?
I will use it with Cubase 7, if thats useful to know
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Re: New SSD

Postby Scramble » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:35 pm

Whether EVOs or not, only buy Samsung.
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Re: New SSD

Postby Gerhard Westphalen » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:48 am

I have 2 intel 520 SSDs and haven't had any problems. I believe they are about 2 years old and get used daily. I haven't used any other SSDs.
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Re: New SSD

Postby Trevor Johnson » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:52 pm

Is the SSD for OS and applications or as a secondary disk?

If for OS/applications, 500Gb is very large and you double the risk of failure by having them in RAID 0. Having SATA 6Gbs rather than 3Gbs will make a bigger difference in speed than RAID 0. New SSDs are quick (despite the variance in read/write times). Better to have a boot disk only for OS/applications, easier to manage a disk image etc. and recover in case of failure.

Currently I have two PCs which have Samsung 840 250GB boot disks and I have Win 7 Pro and a lot of applications, but still have >50% disk space left on both.
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Re: New SSD

Postby Scramble » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:21 pm

Intel SSDs are good, but the people who know, like Pete Kaine from Scan, will tell you that Samsungs SSDs have by far the lowest failure rate.
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Re: New SSD

Postby pattexer » Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:30 pm

I was thinking about the 250GB version, and use it for OS and some vital programs and plugins (samples).
Don't know if its correct, but I heard that using SSD with the os, the system speed does not get slowed down when installing other applications as well?
I'm doing lots of picture editing as well, and really like to load big raw files fast, so thats why I want some more space besides OS
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Re: New SSD

Postby Trevor Johnson » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:40 pm

For image files from a camera card, I use a Kingston USB 3.0 card reader and using Lightroom 5, import the images using 'Copy as DNG' to one WD caviar black 1Tb disk, simultaneously copying to a second WD 2Tb disk, both running SATA 6Gbs. Then the images are copied to a NAS box running RAID 1, then later onto another PC several miles away. Loading and manipulating large image files is quick due to the HDD high transfer speeds and plenty of RAM.But there are many variations will also work well too.

You could have the OS and applications, including plugins on the 'boot disk, 250 Gb SSD, then samples and other data on another 250 Gb SSD. Writing down what you want to do may be a useful exercise: there are many variables to consider!
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Re: New SSD

Postby Martin Walker » Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:47 pm

Trevor Johnson wrote:You could have the OS and applications, including plugins on the 'boot disk, 250 Gb SSD, then samples and other data on another 250 Gb SSD. Writing down what you want to do may be a useful exercise: there are many variables to consider!

Indeed - a very useful exercise

I've got a 128GB SSD in my current PC, and have partitioned it into two halves - 64GB for WIndows + Applications (I'm careful with what I install), and the other 64GB for all my plug-ins and various larger softsynth/plug-ins such as Alchemy and Nebula.


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Re: New SSD

Postby Pete Kaine » Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:55 am

As popular opinion appears to have already reached: Samsung > Intel > Everything else.

And yes, we certainly like the Evo's.
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Re: New SSD

Postby pattexer » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:28 pm

Alright!
Thanks to everyone

Now, next question: dedicated Raid controller or the motherboard? :O
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Re: New SSD

Postby johnny h » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:32 pm

pattexer wrote:Alright!
Thanks to everyone

Now, next question: dedicated Raid controller or the motherboard? :O
Raid is a total waste of time with a SSD.
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Re: New SSD

Postby pattexer » Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:59 pm

Really? :O
From the articles I have red they seem to disagree with you

"Right now there's nothing SATA III based that can outperform Samsung's SSD 840 EVO. Running a pair of 500GB EVO's in RAID is probably the ultimate storage solution for the price available today. For little more than the cost of a 1 terabyte EVO or a 960GB M500, you can have twice the performance to go along with all that luscious capacity.

RAIDing two or more drives together provides you with storage that takes performance to the next level and is something I recommend you try. Once you go RAID, there's no going back."

http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/5801/samsung-840-evo-500gb-raid-0-ssd-report/index13.html

But I have never tried it, so i cannot say for myself...
Anyone else have any thoughts on that?
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Re: New SSD

Postby johnny h » Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:08 pm

pattexer wrote:Really? :O
From the articles I have red they seem to disagree with you

"Right now there's nothing SATA III based that can outperform Samsung's SSD 840 EVO. Running a pair of 500GB EVO's in RAID is probably the ultimate storage solution for the price available today. For little more than the cost of a 1 terabyte EVO or a 960GB M500, you can have twice the performance to go along with all that luscious capacity.

RAIDing two or more drives together provides you with storage that takes performance to the next level and is something I recommend you try. Once you go RAID, there's no going back."

http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/5801/samsung-840-evo-500gb...

But I have never tried it, so i cannot say for myself...
Anyone else have any thoughts on that?
Well it depends what do you want to do. If you want to run benchmarks, go for raid. If you want to halve your potential for hard drive failure and still be able to run virtually unlimited audio tracks and sample streams then one SSD will serve you perfectly well.
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Re: New SSD

Postby Richard Graham » Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:18 pm

It's true you would double your chances of hard disk failure if you were to stripe (rather than mirror) a pair of SSDs using RAID. I suppose in favour of the idea, your sample instruments would load in half the time.

OTOH, wouldn't it be possible to do a mirrored RAID on two SSDs that halved the chance of failure, by duplicating (rather than splitting) the data across the two drives, and also provided twice the throughput by reading complementary parts of the data off the two disks in parallel?

Maybe that's what this form of RAID does, I don't know?
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Re: New SSD

Postby Agharta » Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:06 pm

Keep in mind when thinking about RAID the size of the dataset you are using.
A 100MB file read at 500MBs takes 200ms to transfer assuming the whole file needs to be transferred.
So RAID at best will save you 100ms for the actual transfer.
Then you have to look at the time needed to process the file which in some cases is much longer than the read time.
So say the whole process from opening the file, copying it to memory and initialising it takes 1 or 2 seconds. The 100ms saving then becomes a saving of 10 or 5%.
Most tests just show synthetic benchmarks which don’t take into account an individual’s real world usage patterns.
I’m not saying you can’t get real world application performance benefits but do some research.
This is interesting:
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/ha ... iew-8.html
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Re: New SSD

Postby Agharta » Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:07 pm

You have to consider Trim when using RAID as not all SATA controllers support it with RAID.
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Re: New SSD

Postby pattexer » Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:59 pm

Thanks for answer!
I guess I will use it with relative large sample libraries like Ivory, Steven Slate Drums and Friedlander violin. If the difference is only 5-10% i might just use the second disk as more storage space though. hmm....
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Re: New SSD

Postby johnny h » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:04 pm

Richard Graham wrote:It's true you would double your chances of hard disk failure if you were to stripe (rather than mirror) a pair of SSDs using RAID. I suppose in favour of the idea, your sample instruments would load in half the time.

OTOH, wouldn't it be possible to do a mirrored RAID on two SSDs that halved the chance of failure, by duplicating (rather than splitting) the data across the two drives, and also provided twice the throughput by reading complementary parts of the data off the two disks in parallel?

Maybe that's what this form of RAID does, I don't know?
Yes, RAID 1 operates in this way. It will still increase read performance (but not write) while decreasing the chances of failure so there are benefits of this setup. The cost will be halving the space available as the drives are mirrored.
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Re: New SSD

Postby pattexer » Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:17 pm

Hmm, I guess Raid 1 would be the best choice then, since I will be mostly dependent of the read speed. What should I've done without you guys
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