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Which guitar to be select

Postby Henry Mark1 » Wed May 09, 2012 5:44 am

Hi,

One of my friend is going to start guitar learning and for that he wants to use electirc guitar. I suggest him not to use electric one but use acoustic guitar. Is that my suggestion is right ?
Give your expert advices please.
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Re: Which guitar to be select

Postby ef37a » Wed May 09, 2012 7:08 am

Henry Mark1 wrote:Hi,

One of my friend is going to start guitar learning and for that he wants to use electirc guitar. I suggest him not to use electric one but use acoustic guitar. Is that my suggestion is right ?
Give your expert advices please.
IMHO, no.

I play very little these days but I think that makes me better qualified to say use an electric as a starter guitar because £ for £ the action will be lower and the intial pain less!

I would avoid the Sratocaster style as they have very narrow necks as a rule but I bought a Tele clone from Cconverters for £99.0 and that has a very comfortable action. I also have a Turner which has a very low action for an acoustic but £500? An electric unplugged will make quite enough noise to learn on.

If of course your friend has delusions of Segovia then he needs a classical "Spanish" guitar but twill hurt!

Dave.
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Re: Which guitar to be select

Postby Gary_W » Wed May 09, 2012 8:20 am

I agree with Dave in terms of a budget Electric will be easier to fret notes on than a budget acoustic.

You also have the additional advantage of playing through an amplifier with an electric.... With wise choice of practice amp, this means quiet practice and headphone practice - a pair of closed-back headphones, a practice amp and an electic means that practice sessions can be conducted without annoying anyone else in the house. The benefit of this cannot be overstated IMO
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Re: Which guitar to be select

Postby The Korff » Wed May 09, 2012 8:30 am

I'm not so sure I agree with the last two posts — my logic being that if you learn on an acoustic, then if/when you 'progress' to an electric you'll find it a damn sight easier! Also, I find that the tiny extra bit of faff involved with electrics (switching on your amp, finding a jack lead) can be a bit of a turn-off for practicing. With acoustics, you just pick them up and play!

Cheers,

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Re: Which guitar to be select

Postby Gary_W » Wed May 09, 2012 8:49 am

Korff wrote:I'm not so sure I agree with the last two posts — my logic being that if you learn on an acoustic, then if/when you 'progress' to an electric you'll find it a damn sight easier! Also, I find that the tiny extra bit of faff involved with electrics (switching on your amp, finding a jack lead) can be a bit of a turn-off for practicing. With acoustics, you just pick them up and play!

Cheers,

Chris

I see the logic in this, but with any musical instrument it's 'if you progress' not 'when you progress'. Being put off the instrument as 'too hard' is entirely possible whatever instrument you attempt.

With a guitar, you not only have to contend with the difficulty of learning the instrument but you have to contend with an extra physical problem in terms of acoustics being a tad harder to fret. This could be enough to convince a newbie that it's just too hard.... A shame for someone to give up because of the instrument being an obsticle as opposed to a useable tool
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Re: Which guitar to be select

Postby ef37a » Wed May 09, 2012 9:13 am

Sorry Chris, can't agree!

Guitars hurt period. The guy will play for longer at a stint on a low action cheap Tele than he will on a greenstrainer cheap acoustic. There IS no faff with an amp! As I said solid lectrics make more than enough noise and the idea of running headphones is a good one since that even reduces the string strike and keeps the rest of the household happy!

Electrics are just EASIER! And if the guy does get a little amp they are a lot more fun, earlier in your career than an acoustic. Don't take long to sus a few power chords...Smoke on the Water here we come!

Dave. (I am trying to learn the Money for Nothing riff. Can anybody help?)
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Re: Which guitar to be select

Postby Gary_W » Wed May 09, 2012 9:30 am

ef37a wrote:

Dave. (I am trying to learn the Money for Nothing riff. Can anybody help?)

Yup - it's all in the headband
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Re: Which guitar to be select

Postby lukeandrewhill » Wed May 09, 2012 9:32 am

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please make it all simple.


Re: Which guitar to be select

Postby ef37a » Wed May 09, 2012 9:38 am


Cheers Luke. A starting pont and a shape will help a lot. Going to drive 'er indoors mad!

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Re: Which guitar to be select

Postby Tartaruga » Wed May 09, 2012 9:45 am

Hi
I would tend to agree with Korff…
Of course it’s harder to play an acoustic guitar(we’ve been there…),but once you can play it,it’s easier to play ‘any’ guitar,with a 'little adaptation’…
Also,it compensates in the practice way,because you can play it everywhere(yes,even around that camping fire…)
We guitarists know that ‘electric’ and ‘acoustic’ are different planets(yet,complementary),but if you learn how to play an acoustic,it will be much easier to go from there to anything else 'string related’(I’ll pass here about the ‘dynamics’ involved in playing acoustic guitar…)…
ANW,hope he’s motivated enough,guitar is great but can be a very 'un-grateful' instrument,and yes,at the begging,it will hurt,no matter what he chooses…But that’s just IMO.

ps:I see guitar as a rowing boat,going against the current(?),if you stop practising,you go ‘backwards’,to the place where you came from in the first place…Still rowing...
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Re: Which guitar to be select

Postby zenguitar » Wed May 09, 2012 12:44 pm

If the guy wants to play electric guitar, then learn on an electric. If he wants to play acoustic, learn on an acoustic.

One of the biggest disincentives to learning is playing it right but sounding wrong. And over the years I've noticed that the people who give up on learning guitar tend to be those who desperately wanted an electric guitar but who's parents insisted on them learning on an acoustic.

And as for ease of playing, that's a red herring now. When I was a boy it was probably true, but modern budget acoustics are so well made in china that they can take a decent set-up and be as easy to play as an electric.

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Re: Which guitar to be select

Postby ef37a » Wed May 09, 2012 12:45 pm

I am sorry Garry and others but I just don't get this "hairshirt" attitude!

Surely it also depends upon what the guy WANTS to play? When I was a teenager (yes, they DID have electricity then! Some of the town was 210V tho!) I did not want to be Lonnie bloody Donnigan! I wanted to be Hank!

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Re: Which guitar to be select

Postby ef37a » Wed May 09, 2012 12:50 pm

Well we half agree Andy!

Din't know about Chinese acoustics but then will a beginner go and buy new from a shop that can set it up properly?
Don't know about guitar techs in shops. I do know very few of the buggers will/ can change a pre amp valve!

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Re: Which guitar to be select

Postby zenguitar » Wed May 09, 2012 1:05 pm

Of course Dave, the competence (or otherwise) of shop techs is variable. But fortunately Chinese Quality Control is pretty good these days. Even the cheapest guitars come out of the box in pretty good shape, electric and acoustic. OK, both can be made better with a few tools in skilled hands, but they are generally very playable right from the get go.

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Re: Which guitar to be select

Postby BJG145 » Wed May 09, 2012 1:19 pm

I don't buy these "does he take sugar" threads. Let them play what they want. Motivation is the most important thing.
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Re: Which guitar to be select

Postby Goddard » Wed May 09, 2012 4:40 pm

Hi Henry Mark1, I don't know if your suggestion to your friend was right, and frankly, without some more information it is difficult to say.

Can you explain please why your friend wants to use an electric, and also, can you please explain why you suggested your friend should use an acoustic?

One suggestion: Whatever guitar your friend gets, whether it is an acoustic or an electric (or, an acoustic-electric), it should be a guitar which is comfortable for your friend to play. If possible, your friend should go to a shop like Guitar Center or Sam Ash where they display a bunch of different guitars, and try as many within your friend's budget as possible, to find a guitar which feels right. By 'feels right' I mean a guitar with a neck girth, scale length, action and string spacing which fits your friend's fretting hand and finger span, so that it is comfortable to fret. Maybe not so easy to fret at first (that may require learning and practice for acquiring callouses and technique), but your friend will have an easier time learning to play on a guitar which fits your friend. That much I can say for certain.

Incidentally, as you probably know, there are quite a few guitars available which can be played both acoustically and electrically, such as acoustics equipped with pickups and onboard preamps (acoustic-electrics) as well as hollow body electrics (archtops). And even solidbody electrics can be played acoustically without plugging into an amp (something which should be done anyway before ever buying any solidbody, to judge how it sounds unamplified). Some makers like Fender and Ibanez even offer inexpensive acoustic-electric guitar models with low action necks which feel like playing a solidbody electric and so are as easy to fret as an electric.

HTH,
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Re: Which guitar to be select

Postby C.LYDE » Wed May 09, 2012 5:37 pm

..from personal experience (so extremely biased)

... use an acoustic guitar

1) no distraction by fiddling with knobs and amps
2) fundamental musical ability is emphasized - you know, useless stuff like strumming in time, on key and getting chords to
ring true..

3) met too many guitarists with poor basic technique hiding behind overdrive.. !
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Re: Which guitar to be select

Postby DAGGILARR » Wed May 09, 2012 6:03 pm

You can get really nice acoustics for under 200 squid these days Yamaha do a stonker for about 180

But surly its about what the guy wants to play if it is electric then Ibanez do great guitars for as little as 150
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Re: Which guitar to be select

Postby Dynamic Mike » Wed May 09, 2012 11:15 pm

Korff wrote:I find that the tiny extra bit of faff involved with electrics (switching on your amp, finding a jack lead) can be a bit of a turn-off for practicing. With acoustics, you just pick them up and play!

Also if your wife/partner feels that a guitar, amp, leads and stuff is adversley affecting feng shui of the living area, then the thought of dragging everything out of a cupboard & putting all it away again soon becomes off-putting. I find I pick up an acoustic & start playing what I feel like playing, whereas I pick up an electric and the tone dictates what style I play. Todays acoustics are a world apart playability wise from the Kay acoustic from Grattans catalogue many of us cut our teeth (and fingers) on.
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And of course there must be something wrong. In wanting to silence any song.


Re: Which guitar to be select

Postby ef37a » Thu May 10, 2012 5:38 am

Dynamic Mike wrote:
Korff wrote:I find that the tiny extra bit of faff involved with electrics (switching on your amp, finding a jack lead) can be a bit of a turn-off for practicing. With acoustics, you just pick them up and play!

Also if your wife/partner feels that a guitar, amp, leads and stuff is adversley affecting feng shui of the living area, then the thought of dragging everything out of a cupboard & putting all it away again soon becomes off-putting. I find I pick up an acoustic & start playing what I feel like playing, whereas I pick up an electric and the tone dictates what style I play. Todays acoustics are a world apart playability wise from the Kay acoustic from Grattans catalogue many of us cut our teeth (and fingers) on.

If you have any aspirations of playing rock guitar at all and you are shacked up with a feng shui'ish you are doomed! Either she or the music!

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Re: Which guitar to be select

Postby Gary_W » Thu May 10, 2012 7:55 am

DAGGILARR wrote:You can get really nice acoustics for under 200 squid these days Yamaha do a stonker for about 180

But surly its about what the guy wants to play if it is electric then Ibanez do great guitars for as little as 150

Which Yamaha model? I have an aging Yamaha that has been with me for years and is my 'cheapy' that comes out if I'm going to one of 'those' kind of gigs where taking my posher acoustic is not desirable.... The old Yamaha is getting way past its best (deep furrows in a few frets) and, whilst it works, it's not got the most resonant tone to it so I'd consider a replacement at that sort of cash.....

And Dave - if you read back, I was actually agreeing with you so I don't understand the (very mild) telling off in my direction
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Re: Which guitar to be select

Postby ef37a » Thu May 10, 2012 8:10 am

Gary_W wrote:
DAGGILARR wrote:You can get really nice acoustics for under 200 squid these days Yamaha do a stonker for about 180

But surly its about what the guy wants to play if it is electric then Ibanez do great guitars for as little as 150

Which Yamaha model? I have an aging Yamaha that has been with me for years and is my 'cheapy' that comes out if I'm going to one of 'those' kind of gigs where taking my posher acoustic is not desirable.... The old Yamaha is getting way past its best (deep furrows in a few frets) and, whilst it works, it's not got the most resonant tone to it so I'd consider a replacement at that sort of cash.....

And Dave - if you read back, I was actually agreeing with you so I don't understand the (very mild) telling off in my direction
Oh! Sorry then Gaz. Don't mind this BOF these days!
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Re: Which guitar to be select

Postby ef37a » Thu May 10, 2012 8:30 am

Tell him to get an electric then this time next year he could be palying this!.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LFpg...eature=related

Hmm? Does not work if I send it to S-Central but it does if I email it back to myself.


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Re: Which guitar to be select

Postby DAGGILARR » Thu May 10, 2012 12:58 pm

This Yamaha Played one of these in a shop a few weeks ago very impressed

And hows THIS for a starter electric I got one of these for my daughter and its outstanding for very little money
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Re: Which guitar to be select

Postby grab » Fri May 11, 2012 1:27 pm

My standard thinking is that you should learn *either* on an electric with light strings (top E string 0.008" thickness) *or* a nylon-string classical.

A steel-string acoustic is by far the worst thing that a beginner could possibly start on. With light electric strings it'll be playable but it'll always sound sh1t. With proper weight strings (typically 0.011" thickness for top E) it'll cheesewire their fingertips to bloody ribbons inside two minutes flat. And anything you can do on a steel-string acoustic as a beginner, you can do just as well on a nylon-string classical. Unless they've got hands like a bricklayer, stay well away from steel-string acoustics for the first year or two.

Electric and classical each have advantages and disadvantages. The electric's fretboard is thinner and more rounded so it can be easier to get your hands round it. Unfortunately this can also lead to bad habits which are less likely with the wider flat fretboard of a classical. Fingerpicking is also a little harder with the narrow string spacing on an electric; but on a classical you may not notice that you're accidentally brushing other strings (they don't make much sound) whereas on an electric you can't escape it, so the electric can actually give you better habits that way.

As has previously been said, it comes down more to what the person wants to play. If they enjoy it, they'll keep playing; and if they're not playing stuff that's fun for them, they'll probably stop enjoying it.
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Re: Which guitar to be select

Postby Pin » Fri May 11, 2012 8:36 pm

I think that if you want to play electric you should get an electric. Later, you'll probably want an acoustic and experience yet new pain! But by that time, you will have made progress and might be able to play a bit and will more likely stick with it.

My very first guitar was a Hofner Galaxy and although I thought it crap in those days it really did have a very good action and was certainly eminently playable. I then "progressed" onto at least one totally unplayable archtop jazz with a three feet high action before ending up with Hofner Senator jazz which was very decent. Next stop was a Gibson ES345 and that is one I really regret selling!

I have seen the most awful rubbish imaginable in acoustic guitars and I wouldn't wish one on my worst enemy. I've seen plenty of unplayable classical crap as well.

Get what your heart wants!
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Re: Which guitar to be select

Postby 4TrackMadman » Fri May 11, 2012 9:36 pm

It really depends on what style of music he wants to learn. There are some genres where distortion and effects and required, thus an acoustic won't help much.

In the days that I taught guitar I recommended acoustic due to the fact that you buy one guitar and no extra accessories, then once you get better and you become oriented in what you want to do you can decide on what you'd really need.
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Re: Which guitar to be select

Postby Gary_W » Fri May 11, 2012 10:49 pm

DAGGILARR wrote: This Yamaha Played one of these in a shop a few weeks ago very impressed

And hows THIS for a starter electric I got one of these for my daughter and its outstanding for very little money

Many thanks . I'll give that Yamaha a look....
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Re: Which guitar to be select

Postby zenguitar » Fri May 11, 2012 11:52 pm

I often get asked about this in the pub... and I often recommend an electric to parents. Partly because the child wants to play Rawk Music, but often to appeal to the parent's 'enlightened self interest'... an unplugged electric guitar is a lot quieter than an acoustic, and in the hands of a learner that counts a lot towards the tranquillity of the rest of the family. Start with an electric and a baby POD and headphones, and the next birthday/xmas present can be an amp

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Re: Which guitar to be select

Postby zenguitar » Fri May 11, 2012 11:57 pm

And when I think back, I did most of my early guitar learning on an unplugged electric. I did eventually get my hands on a borrowed amp, but even then I couldn't plug in often because it was too loud. And because an unplugged electric is so quiet I could practice late at night when I was supposed to be in bed.

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