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Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

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Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby Kolakube » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:32 am

Wondering what you would rather have and why? Mainly for lead sounds.
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Re: Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby vinyl_junkie » Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:02 am

It's like comparing the sound of a Tele to a Les Paul really innit

Personally I wouldn't want either, both too over used and wooo look at me I'm a Moog..so with your choice I would rather have a 101, the Moog sound don't really fit in well with what I do.
I tried it, loved it for a bit then went hang on...

I don't want to say what I would rather have in case people go buying them and prices go mad, I mean I just sold my Roland JX-3P on ebay for 350 quid! I feel guilty letting it go for that, I only wanted like 120 ish to cover what I paid for it few years ago

It's all down to taste at the end of the day and what colours you want to use
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Re: Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby jellyjim » Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:48 am

I've owned an SH101 and have an LP now. The LP is a more versatile instrument (two oscillators for starters) but there's plenty that it hasn't got that the SH101 has. The SH101 has a little step sequencer which I remember being lots of fun. It has a noise source - the LP's noise source is for modulation only. The SH101 has no functionality hidden in menus and a knob per function - I think people often forget the LP's interface is compromised. It sounds like a Roland not like a Moog although it doesn't sound like a Jupiter or a TB303 or probably even a Juno. The SH101 is a very nice very unique instrument and I do miss mine - of all the synths to go through the roof in value it's the SH101 I resent the most particularly as I used to own one! It was stolen in a burglary while on loan - I did get to keep a Moog Prodigy in return but that's another story.

So yeah the SH101 is a great bit of kit but ... whilst the SH101 is lots of fun, the LP on a good day is more inspirational if only because it has a more complex architecture.

I think it's horses for courses/you get what you pay for on this one:

SH101 - Fun, brash, prosumer monosynth from the 1980s
LP - State of the art electronic musical instrument

If I had to choose? The LP but I'd miss the SH101 a lot. There's a good case for owning both.
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Re: Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby Chevytraveller » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:01 pm

neither..

a Telemark for me thank you..

or a Mono Evolver Keyboard


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Re: Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby jellyjim » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:09 pm

Chevytraveller wrote:neither..

a Telemark for me thank you..

or a Mono Evolver Keyboard



Yes the Telemark is lushicious for sure. I'm frisky for a Europa too

http://analoguesolutions.com/europa
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Re: Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby Kolakube » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:10 pm

Hi guys, dont think it will come down to one or the other. I just like theorising.

Junkie - You sold your JX - You've been threatening that for ever.
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Re: Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby DTB » Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:16 pm

What about the Dave Smith mophokey?? http://www.davesmithinstruments.com/products/mophokey/
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Re: Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby Kolakube » Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:20 pm

I tried the Prophet 08 and though it was poor. I know some people may like it but after owning an Andromeda it was quite thin, lacked expression and paled next to good VAs.
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Re: Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby jellyjim » Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:29 pm

DTB wrote:What about the Dave Smith mophokey?? http://www.davesmithinstruments.com/products/mophokey/

i found the mopho too brash or metallic or brittle or - dare i say it - digital or some such

not to mention the fact that it was an utter nightmare to program and at the time the free editor software was pretty poor
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Re: Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby jellyjim » Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:31 pm

kolakube wrote:Hi guys, dont think it will come down to one or the other. I just like theorising.

Junkie - You sold your JX - You've been threatening that for ever.

it's truly nuts that the jx3p has gone up in price, it's not a very interesting instrument by any stretch

before vintage prices went really crazy most people scoffed at it
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Re: Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby DragonLogos » Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:28 pm

A lot would depend on the song, if you wanted something to cut through the mix, that would lean to Moogsville, as would fast flowing lines - 101 more bending an LFO triggers (for me)
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Re: Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby The Elf » Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:34 pm

Having used an SH101 for many years the answer is simple for me. I'd take the LP without a moment's hesitation. Moogs still have that sound that oozes class.
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Re: Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby vinyl_junkie » Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:39 pm

+1 Those DSI MoPho's sounded well rather underwhelming and nothing a good VA wouldn't be able to pull of easily imo
I can just hear Dave going.. But I gave you (the market) what you wanted and you are still moaning.. It's analogue and has 1000000000 billion features... lol
The user interface on the desktop unit is also plain wrong much like a Roland Alpha Juno is also wrong... If designing a menu driven synth or similar people should learn from Ensoniq's ESQ-1 on how to actually do it properly.

Yes vintage prices are mad...even if it's rubbish it will sell for loads. With the 3P I think it's a combination of these factors;

It's analogue and analogue is cool, superior to everything ever made in the whole wide world, it's VINTAGE Roland and this thing is cheaper than a Juno..

Once people got them cos they couldn't afford anything else, they started popping up being used by artists..people catch on, demand stupidly goes up and once a crap synth no one wanted is now a crap synth people want to pay loads for.

No3 is this
http://www.kiwitechnics.com/jx3pupgrade.htm
They think it will turn it into some kind of Jupiter 6
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Re: Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby Chaconne » Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:19 pm

A lot of it depends on the type of music you like / make.
Obviously you should not pigeon hole instruments but...
If I use Roland synths for solos I always find they sound good for disco, or 'cheap' Italo sounds, or pop. Moogs seam to really sit well in rock tracks. Obviously this is a stereotype, but they have a warm creamy singing tone that seams to add a magic in prog rock. They can be funky as well of course.
I find its the same with Oberheim or Sequential sounds. They are used in dance and pop, but have that same singing sound that just sounds great in prog and German style elctronica.
Rolands are snappier and more...I dont know what the best term is.

For what its worth i think second tier analogs are OK value these days, around £400 can get you a JX or Juno etc in good condition.
What is the alternative? You cant just laugh at people, or write off Dave Smith just cos' you dont like the sound!!!
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Re: Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby Kolakube » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:25 pm

+1 Those DSI MoPho's sounded well rather underwhelming and nothing a good VA wouldn't be able to pull of easily imo
I can just hear Dave going.. But I gave you (the market) what you wanted and you are still moaning.. It's analogue and has 1000000000 billion features... lol
The user interface on the desktop unit is also plain wrong much like a Roland Alpha Juno is also wrong... If designing a menu driven synth or similar people should learn from Ensoniq's ESQ-1 on how to actually do it properly.

Yes vintage prices are mad...even if it's rubbish it will sell for loads. With the 3P I think it's a combination of these factors;

It's analogue and analogue is cool, superior to everything ever made in the whole wide world, it's VINTAGE Roland and this thing is cheaper than a Juno..



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Re: Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby ken long » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:46 pm

If anyone wants to trade their Phatty for my SH, please PM me.
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Re: Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby Kolakube » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:56 pm

Thats sort of my point for this thread though Ken.

For a mint condition 101 "with" convertor you can get around £500 after Ebay fees. A LP1 (non USB edition) is around £550

So you can trade it yourself. Trade your 101 and convertor for cash and then buy a second hand LP (Stupid bloody name for the moog heritage BTW - Phatty - I bloody detest that stupid spelling!!)
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Re: Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby jellyjim » Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:00 am

kolakube wrote:Thats sort of my point for this thread though Ken.

For a mint condition 101 "with" convertor you can get around £500 after Ebay fees. A LP1 (non USB edition) is around £550

So you can trade it yourself. Trade your 101 and convertor for cash and then buy a second hand LP (Stupid bloody name for the moog heritage BTW - Phatty - I bloody detest that stupid spelling!!)

Have 101's hit £500?! Ridiculous and utterly not worth it.

Yes, "Little Phatty" is pretty much universally hated!
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Re: Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby willco » Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:16 am

I have a 101 - it's a great, hands on, instant piece of gear.

It is limited in terms of the palette of sounds you can get out of it, and the limitations of the envelope are a bit annoying too, but it has some special things about it. Noise as source on the LFO can make some amzing fizzing and crackling stuff modulating the filter with it. It has a really cutting, strong sound, it really punches through in the mix.

I had mine modified by Circuitbenders and I can highly recommend the mod, it really opens up what noises the sh101 can make:

http://www.circuitbenders.co.uk/synthmod/SH101.html

I got mine from Japan on ebay years ago for £170 + a £100 mod so if you can find a cheap mashed up one and get it serviced and modded you could be on to a winner...
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Re: Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby Kolakube » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:32 pm

Hiya Jim,

I just think people who spell 'fat' 'phat', are either grandads trying to be hip and cool (A la Moog designers) or cringe worthy Hip Hoper types who wave there hands all over the place as they talk and try there best to string a sentence together that isnt about crime and drugs.

I thought Moog were in a different league to this. They invent coolness, not hop on fad words that if they sound bad today will sound horrendous in a decades time. Like looking back at the 80s with the big hair styles. WHat the hell was Moog thinking?

"Compuphonic" on a Jupiter 4 anyone?


Willco

Hi mate. Sorry but I wouldn't dream of circuit bending a classic synth. I don't mind adding a MIDI interface to a Juno 6 or whatever but anything other than that to me is blasphemous and sacrilege.

Totally agree about the instant nature of the 101. And the Juno 6/60/106. Never has so much sonic power been know so easily.

Welcome to the forum BTW.
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Re: Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby Chaconne » Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:07 pm

A Moog for some reason has always been low down on my wants list.
Great synths obvioiusly, but not something I really want to own.
Unless I find a modular in a skip obviously.

I'm with you Kola on circuit bending. I have yet to hear anyone modding something that has basically improved the instrument. I'm sure there are some proper mods that can be done, some pots that can be adjusted, but most I have heard result in nothing but useless screaming, or glitching. Its not a coincidence that circuit benders basically play with cheap toys.

I sort of see the point of the Sh101 / phatty price comparison, but, well - I would not hold onto a 303 given what I could get for that.
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Re: Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby vinyl_junkie » Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:24 pm

I had a 101 with some usefull mods.. Seperate outs for all the waveforms and more modulation inputs, nice if you have a modular system.
I used the BassStation keyboard more than the 101 though...

Man I just got outbid on a mk3 Revox A-77 and Korg 700s....not a good day.. But I did just get a Ensoniq EPS-16+

Re Circuit bending... This is the only thing I have heard on which I went...this ain't too bad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV4EL5gg9IY&feature=related
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Re: Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby Kolakube » Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:37 pm

I'm with you Kola on circuit bending. I have yet to hear anyone modding something that has basically improved the instrument. I'm sure there are some proper mods that can be done, some pots that can be adjusted, but most I have heard result in nothing but useless screaming, or glitching. Its not a coincidence that circuit benders basically play with cheap toys.


GUys for me it isn't about the sounds they make. Its about hacking the case and insides of a classic vintage. Just not right IMO
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Re: Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby Adam Inglis » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:01 am

jellyjim wrote:

it's truly nuts that the jx3p has gone up in price, it's not a very interesting instrument by any stretch

before vintage prices went really crazy most people scoffed at it

Maybe they did, but when you get stuck in to programming it via the PG200, you realise there is a lot to this synth, not least because of it's two oscillator voicing with cross-modulation pathways. Lately, the midi retrofit/control options (by organix and kiwitechnics) really open it up and increase it's sound potential.
Mine sits above my JP8 and I'm often impressed by how well the sound stands up next to the "bigger" synth...
oops, now I'm probably sounding like that stuck record.... ;-)
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Re: Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby The Elf » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:21 am

Adam Inglis wrote:Mine sits above my JP8 and I'm often impressed by how well the sound stands up next to the "bigger" synth...
...in fact, I'm certain you could do without the JP8 altogether and send it to live in my enchanted world where it will live a long and happy existence, far beyond it's ability in the mortal world!
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Re: Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby jellyjim » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:02 pm

The Elf wrote:
Adam Inglis wrote:Mine sits above my JP8 and I'm often impressed by how well the sound stands up next to the "bigger" synth...
...in fact, I'm certain you could do without the JP8 altogether and send it to live in my enchanted world where it will live a long and happy existence, far beyond it's ability in the mortal world!

Are you really an elf?
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Re: Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby Martin Walker » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:48 pm

vinyl_junkie wrote:Re Circuit bending... This is the only thing I have heard on which I went...this ain't too bad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV4EL5gg9IY&feature=related

That is rather good vj


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Re: Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby The Elf » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:21 pm

jellyjim wrote:
The Elf wrote:
Adam Inglis wrote:Mine sits above my JP8 and I'm often impressed by how well the sound stands up next to the "bigger" synth...
...in fact, I'm certain you could do without the JP8 altogether and send it to live in my enchanted world where it will live a long and happy existence, far beyond it's ability in the mortal world!

Are you really an elf?
For a JP8 I'll be anything you want me to be!
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Re: Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby Kolakube » Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:06 pm

Missed the boat like me with a J8 Elf. £1500 just 3 years ago and now selling for £5000?

Thats over 200% in a global slow down.

Id love to know what happened. Did someone realise the J8 wasn't actually ok it was superb? Im mean, surely this was common knowledge. What could happen to drive this phenomenal increase?
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Re: Roland SH-101 or Moog Little Phaty

Postby fatbenelton » Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:33 pm

To be fair it isn't only the JP8 that has soared in value......Bought my first JP4 in 2005 for £330 and consider the one I bought last month for £950 a bargain as prices seem to usually sit about the £1200+ mark. Pro-one's go for nearly £1000 after being in the £300 bracket a mere four years ago which is a 300% increase. Same with Synthex's, Juno 60's and many more...... even the humble Jen SX1000, the £50 bargain of yesteryear,is going for several hundred now......

Capitalism, supply and demand, Emperor's new clothes, call it what you will, but 'analogue' is going up in value better than most commodities!
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