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Controlling an Akai Sampler with a BCR2000

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Controlling an Akai Sampler with a BCR2000

Postby forumuser927284 » Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:41 pm

Hi,

Ive had a lot of fun with my mates ESX sampler lately. Mainly the hands on control.

Why the hell were Akai synths not full of sliders back since the 80s? Why a rack mount? Suppose it was the dawn of the digital synth and at the time one slider per 128 functions was all the rage. Just seems odd it took Korg to make the first ever sampler with decent hands on control. Marks to the Yamahas though. I thought Akai would have cottoned on. Hell if they made a hardware sampler with the access of my Sh101 Id buy two right now.

Sorry, went of on a rant.

Ok, since I have to give my ESX back can I buy a BCR and control my S900 or S1000 or even S3000XL. So things like start and end times of sample, pitch, filters and such?

If it is possible how would you tell the BCR what sample you were working on. IE if you have 5 samples in the machine how do you tell it what one your editing?
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Re: Controlling an Akai Sampler with a BCR2000

Postby Chevytraveller » Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:13 am

I think you need to look a bit deeper into the MIDI implementation of those samplers before you spend your money.. You will need to be able to get the Behringer to send MIDI SYSEX strings to the Akais (assuming it supports that level of control over MIDI which I don't think they do)

You have to remember that hindsight is a wonderful thing.. it's all very well saying "why didn't they do XYZ" 25 years ago but the technology was much more limited and building costs were huge.. The S1000 was already over £3000 when it emerged and was incredibly groundbreaking and cheap for the time.
The processors of the time didn't allow for realtime control over digital parameters as it had a hard enough job just dealing with 16 bit stereo digital audio.



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Re: Controlling an Akai Sampler with a BCR2000

Postby forumuser927284 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:27 am

Hi Chevvy.

Yes and no. Ok fair point re the 80s stuff but by the time the S3000XL came along I'm not so sure why this couldn't have been implemented.

AGreed the S900 then S1000 were ground breaking. But back then I saw no reason upgrade my trusty S1000 until the S3000XL came out some 7 years later. And as we all know 7 years is a looooong time in technology. Sure the S1100 was great but even more expensive. The S3000 range (non XL) was pointless in my view.

I think also by the time the S5/6000 came along the technology was plenty cheap enough. Roland and such had made the JP8000, novation with there bass stations. Knobs on synths were in vogue again by the late 90. so these types of design were about.

I guess I just think part of being a forward thinking company involves just that. Thinking about how to greatly improve products and things.

Its not so much hind site either. Many artists of the 90s requested such features. If memory serves me correct I'm sure in the SOS eat static interview they mentioned the same thing.

I would gladly buy a modern day sampler if someone was to make one with accessibility. Like a greatly expanded ESX. Unlike the ESX 2 that seems a step backwards to me.



Thanks for the tips re the BCR. Ill look into it and report back. May help someone else out if I can get it working. If its going to be a PITA I may just leave it. Shame as working with the ESX has shown me how much fun sampling can be again.
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Re: Controlling an Akai Sampler with a BCR2000

Postby Chevytraveller » Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:53 am

You also have to remember that the idea of manipulating samples in realtime was only on the wish list of only a very small percentage of sampler users.. the vast bulk of S1000 users didn't even record their own samples..
The costs of designing and implementing a knob-laden interface would have been huge and then would probaly have sent Akai into insolvency even earlier.
There was a compromise in the form of MESA which allowed users to edit all the parameters with a computer but even this had a relatively low uptake.
Hardware development is a time consuming and expensive thing and so it can be frustrating when older machines don't perform the same functions as modern products but this can also be a part of their charm.. the best thing to do is to embrace the best elements that
both generations can offer..

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Re: Controlling an Akai Sampler with a BCR2000

Postby chris... » Wed Jan 07, 2015 1:01 pm

M-Loch! wrote: can I buy a BCR and control my S900 or S1000 or even S3000XL. So things like start and end times of sample, pitch, filters and such?

As I recall, the S3000XL has a decent mod matrix allowing you to assign arbitrary MIDI CCs to many parameters. No sysex needed. Pitch and filters would definitely be included. Not sure about start and end times offhand, but there may be workarounds.

On the S3000XL range this was called "APM". I don't know to what extent the earlier samplers did this, as I never used them.
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Re: Controlling an Akai Sampler with a BCR2000

Postby forumuser927284 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:54 pm

Fair points Chevy. Well made. It would be nice to think that a BCR could turn my old trusty S1000 into something like an ESX on the cheap. Thanks to the ESX 2 being a disappointment to most much like the new MPC range the old ESX has gone up in second hand price since it was discontinued. I need an HD24 and an SH101 first on my 2015 list.

I was very impressed with my friends though. Even if it does look fisher price. (to me)



Chris - Thanks I wasn't aware. I do know the 6000 does this however I remember certain things like start or end points not being accessible. Thanks for the heads up
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Re: Controlling an Akai Sampler with a BCR2000

Postby chris... » Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:09 pm

The S3000XL has the "APM" modulation. A very quick Google suggests the orig S3000 did too, but earlier akais didn't.
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Re: Controlling an Akai Sampler with a BCR2000

Postby Pitchfork » Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:37 pm

M-Loch! wrote:Hi,

Ive had a lot of fun with my mates ESX sampler lately. Mainly the hands on control.

Why the hell were Akai synths not full of sliders back since the 80s? Why a rack mount? Suppose it was the dawn of the digital synth and at the time one slider per 128 functions was all the rage. Just seems odd it took Korg to make the first ever sampler with decent hands on control. Marks to the Yamahas though. I thought Akai would have cottoned on. Hell if they made a hardware sampler with the access of my Sh101 Id buy two right now.

Sorry, went of on a rant.

Ok, since I have to give my ESX back can I buy a BCR and control my S900 or S1000 or even S3000XL. So things like start and end times of sample, pitch, filters and such?

If it is possible how would you tell the BCR what sample you were working on. IE if you have 5 samples in the machine how do you tell it what one your editing?

I'd love to know this too. Could buying a control surface like the BCR2000 allow me to use my Akai sampler S3000i with its filters, and pitch a bit like a SP1200 did with moving a slider for pitch (analog style) and using my "ears" to get things in pretty old skool style?

Sliders for pitch, filter and maybe sample edit start/end would be great...?
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Re: Controlling an Akai Sampler with a BCR2000

Postby chris... » Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:25 pm

Pitchfork wrote:I'd love to know this too. Could buying a control surface like the BCR2000 allow me to use my Akai sampler S3000i with its filters, and pitch

Does the BCR2000 produce MIDI CCs ? If so, then as already noted above, it could indeed control all the parameters the Akai can assign MIDI CCs to (you'll want to look up the exact list in the sampler manual).
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Re: Controlling an Akai Sampler with a BCR2000

Postby shurikt » Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:35 am

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Re: Controlling an Akai Sampler with a BCR2000

Postby Pitchfork » Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:13 am


Nice, but I think pitch/tune of programs, and sample start time isn't catered for, which would make it more on the fly like the SP1200 :frown:
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Re: Controlling an Akai Sampler with a BCR2000

Postby chris... » Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:04 pm

Pitchfork wrote:Nice, but I think pitch/tune of programs, and sample start time isn't catered for

Hi - in this thread it's already been established the BCR controller can generate MIDI CCs. It's also already been noted that S3000 and later can assign most parameters to MIDI CCs. Certainly pitch/tune/filter. Probably not sample start time.

Does that make sense ? I've already posted this several times, but you still seem to recon it can't be done. Am I missing something obvious ? Please explain why you think it won't work, in which case we can hopefully help shed some light!

Ta
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Re: Controlling an Akai Sampler with a BCR2000

Postby Pitchfork » Fri May 19, 2017 11:17 am

chris... wrote:
Pitchfork wrote:Nice, but I think pitch/tune of programs, and sample start time isn't catered for
Hi - in this thread it's already been established the BCR controller can generate MIDI CCs. It's also already been noted that S3000 and later can assign most parameters to MIDI CCs. Certainly pitch/tune/filter. Probably not sample start time.

Does that make sense ? I've already posted this several times, but you still seem to recon it can't be done. Am I missing something obvious ? Please explain why you think it won't work, in which case we can hopefully help shed some light!

Ta

Hi Chris!

Only just found your reply, after 2 years!!! so apologies for that!

Just coming back to this, and within those 2 years, I have now got an Akai S3200XL full expanded, which (may) have some extra options to the original S3000i that i mentioned?

As like the OP, I came from an Electribe ES and loved the knobs and real time, so hence asking about the BCR2000 as a control surface sitting on top controlling pitch/tune/filter for programs (even if it doesn't do sample start/end times Grrrr lol)

Also there maybe a better alternative now for a hardware controller like the BCR?
These are usually designed for DAW's but our scenario here, is older hardware technology, so will have to have a look around :)
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