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Wireless Intermodulation

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Wireless Intermodulation

Postby p.dakin » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:43 am

Hi guys,

I've been trying to firm up my RF management and have been playing with a few of the intermod software.

Does anyone know of any *.sol *.sl2 files for the UK that can be used with Shure's WB5 to augment their USA tv channel listings?

I'm currently searching through JFMG to find active channels in area then entering into WB5.

Also are any of you using Spectrum analysers? I'm quite interested in the TTi PSA1301T, though its serious money.

Thanks
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Re: Wireless Intermodulation

Postby dmills » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:20 am

I have been known to use a spec. analyzer, but mostly because I have the tool available anyway (A second hand Agilent in my case).

Anritsu, Agilent, Tektronics, Rhode & Schwartz, Marconi, Wandel & Goterman are the names to conjure with in spectrum analyzers.

A used Tek 492P would suit well for radio mic work and they tend to be cheap as these things are measured.

A lot of the radio mics types seem to favor a 'winradio' computer controlled radio rather then a dedicated spectrum analyzer.

Regards, Dan.
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Re: Wireless Intermodulation

Postby p.dakin » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:30 am

thanks for the reply.

Do you use any particular intermodulation software?


Crikey those Tektonics make some seriously expensive (+20k) scanners!!
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Re: Wireless Intermodulation

Postby seablade » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:58 pm

Peter Dakin wrote:thanks for the reply.

Do you use any particular intermodulation software?

IN the US IAS from Masque is probably the 'standard' at this point. Not sure about internationally. Likewise in the US there is RF Guru, which I have been using, which isn't quite as good as IAS from what I have been told, but is much cheaper and works good enough for me as I tend to do a lot more hands on anyways and just want a starting point.

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Re: Wireless Intermodulation

Postby p.dakin » Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:27 am

I've been recommend IAS by a few engineers, however they're all in the states. It isn't cheap either.
SWB5 (shure Workbench) looked good when I caught it at plasa, however without a device attached it seems limited. Same goes for sennheiser SWM.

I was thinking of getting IAS then using JFMG/OFCom to find active TV channels in a given area, then simply enter them in manually, in conjunction with a local scanner. Bit of a pain compared with ease of the FCC database, but the software does seem excellent, especially when working with a multitude of various wireless gear.

Seablade, have you been using RF Guru for a while? Its another one on my list.
I'm on a mac, so can't download the demos, I'll probably get a little plastic brick in the future if a few jobs come off, then demo a short-list of software.

My normal gig has mixture of old shure handhelds, sennheiser g2 IEM's and old sennheiser guitar packs, and bits of random stuff chucked in with supports (trantek and unbranded ch70 stuff). Sadly they are a pain to get them to play together nicely. Fingers crossed though the new stuff will arrive soon, however I imagine I'll be forced to use old gear until June 30th 2012, when the big switch goes "Clunk"! :headbang:
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Re: Wireless Intermodulation

Postby John Willett » Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:14 pm

Peter Dakin wrote:Hi guys,

I've been trying to firm up my RF management and have been playing with a few of the intermod software.

Does anyone know of any *.sol *.sl2 files for the UK that can be used with Shure's WB5 to augment their USA tv channel listings?

I'm currently searching through JFMG to find active channels in area then entering into WB5.

Also are any of you using Spectrum analysers? I'm quite interested in the TTi PSA1301T, though its serious money.

Thanks

Talk to JFMG as you will need to buy a licence.

If your US version cannot tune to European Ch.38 then you will have to purchase licenses on a daily basis (or weekly, or annually) for the specific site. If you are moving around and it will not tine to the 606-614MHz band, then it will be cheaper to buy a new UK legal system as the daily/weekly licenses will quickly cost you more than buying a new system.

As for IM-free frequency sets, talk to Sure UK as they will have all the recommended sets for your system.
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Re: Wireless Intermodulation

Postby p.dakin » Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:48 pm

John Willett wrote:

Talk to JFMG as you will need to buy a licence.

If your US version cannot tune to European Ch.38 then you will have to purchase licenses on a daily basis (or weekly, or annually) for the specific site. If you are moving around and it will not tine to the 606-614MHz band, then it will be cheaper to buy a new UK legal system as the daily/weekly licenses will quickly cost you more than buying a new system.

As for IM-free frequency sets, talk to Sure UK as they will have all the recommended sets for your system.

Hi John,

My post seems have been a little miss leading. I have no US equipment, it was more a question regarding the IAS (Intermodulation Analysis System) software from the US and its application in the UK as the software utilise the FCC database, where as currently there isn't a UK database that integrates with the IAS software, to help avoid TV broadcasts.

I'm already a JFMG licensee holder, and all my clients have also, as well as partaking in the co-ordinated licences for major events as well as having specific license where required.

My interest in the IAS/SWB5 software is I regularly have to co-ordinate a multitude of frequencies with various equipment and making them play together. Last show was 8 shure ULX, 6 senny's g2, 3 old senn guitar systems and a couple of ch70 stuff for the supports.

With current RF climate and the geographical availability of ch38 (+39&40) the scanner/tv database was the plan to make my life that little stress free.
Wigwam have one for hire, so think I'll get one for a play.
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Re: Wireless Intermodulation

Postby John Willett » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:33 pm

Peter Dakin wrote:
John Willett wrote:

Talk to JFMG as you will need to buy a licence.

If your US version cannot tune to European Ch.38 then you will have to purchase licenses on a daily basis (or weekly, or annually) for the specific site. If you are moving around and it will not tine to the 606-614MHz band, then it will be cheaper to buy a new UK legal system as the daily/weekly licenses will quickly cost you more than buying a new system.

As for IM-free frequency sets, talk to Sure UK as they will have all the recommended sets for your system.

Hi John,

My post seems have been a little miss leading. I have no US equipment, it was more a question regarding the IAS (Intermodulation Analysis System) software from the US and its application in the UK as the software utilise the FCC database, where as currently there isn't a UK database that integrates with the IAS software, to help avoid TV broadcasts.

I'm already a JFMG licensee holder, and all my clients have also, as well as partaking in the co-ordinated licences for major events as well as having specific license where required.

My interest in the IAS/SWB5 software is I regularly have to co-ordinate a multitude of frequencies with various equipment and making them play together. Last show was 8 shure ULX, 6 senny's g2, 3 old senn guitar systems and a couple of ch70 stuff for the supports.

With current RF climate and the geographical availability of ch38 (+39&40) the scanner/tv database was the plan to make my life that little stress free.
Wigwam have one for hire, so think I'll get one for a play.

If you have Ch.38 equipment, then I would revert to the JFMG recommended frequency set when planning with various different bits of kit and make sure everyone adheres to that.

If you are on your own, then use the set recommended by the manufacture of your kit.

For the rest of this year only, where there are Ch.38 exclusion zones, and you have to use Ch.39 or 40, then, again, use the JFMG recommended frequency sets - these will be OK for most equipment.

You *have*, by law, to go to the JFMG look-up before using Ch.38 equipment.

The UK is pretty special when it comes to radiomic. frequencies as the law is very tight about what you can use and where; but when you do it's very much safer to use, with less interference, than other countries.

For frequency calculators - there is a good one on the Sennheiser website.
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Re: Wireless Intermodulation

Postby seablade » Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:26 pm

Peter Dakin wrote:
I was thinking of getting IAS then using JFMG/OFCom to find active TV channels in a given area, then simply enter them in manually, in conjunction with a local scanner. Bit of a pain compared with ease of the FCC database, but the software does seem excellent, especially when working with a multitude of various wireless gear.

I think you are the first person in history that does this that I have ever heard say the FCC database was 'easy' :) I know what oyu mean, just it is funny to me.


Seablade, have you been using RF Guru for a while? Its another one on my list.

I'm on a mac, so can't download the demos, I'll probably get a little plastic brick in the future if a few jobs come off, then demo a short-list of software.

I have, and have been fairly happy with it, but as of yet have not used it on anything to large. I think the largest thing I have coordinated with it was a couple channels or wireless com, and about 24-30 channels of wireless mics, and it has done decent for that. The downside of all of these to me though is the requirement for Windows, I can't even run them under Wine typically, especially with RF Guru, so I have to keep a VM around just for them.


My normal gig has mixture of old shure handhelds, sennheiser g2 IEM's and old sennheiser guitar packs, and bits of random stuff chucked in with supports (trantek and unbranded ch70 stuff). Sadly they are a pain to get them to play together nicely. Fingers crossed though the new stuff will arrive soon, however I imagine I'll be forced to use old gear until June 30th 2012, when the big switch goes "Clunk"! :headbang:

The setup I mentioned above is about 11-17 channels of Sennehiser G2 stuff(10-16 because technically I have Lectrosonics receivers for 6 channels, and will be going complete Leccy hopefully before to long), and about 12 channels of Shure ULX and 3 of Shure SLX, combined witha couple channels of Telex BTR Wireless Com. Nothing fancy, but it did well enough for that, though technically I don't think I coordinated the Com in RF Guru for other reasons, so I would have to check it.

I can say that RF Guru worked well enoguh for me in the US, but I can't speak anything for the UK, Dan(dmills) is a much better resource for that side of the pond than me. John Willet is a great resource as well(And indeed I bugged him several times with questions when I first got started coordinating wireless), but obviously goes with Sennheiser quite often, which can be good but sometimes isn't always the best;) That being said he is still quite knowledgeable.

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Re: Wireless Intermodulation

Postby p.dakin » Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:14 am

seablade wrote:
I think you are the first person in history that does this that I have ever heard say the FCC database was 'easy' :) I know what oyu mean, just it is funny to me.

First person to use IAS in UK, or use JFMG to find active TV channels in geographical areas? By "ease" I meant the Zip search function in IAS to display local TV stations that might cause interference. No further FCC database use! :)

seablade wrote:
The downside of all of these to me though is the requirement for Windows, I can't even run them under Wine typically, especially with RF Guru, so I have to keep a VM around just for them.

Dito. I've given up with parallels/boot camp et al and either borrow a laptop off someone or do with out. Netbooks are getting so cheap now, I sorely tempted to just get my hands dirty and get one! :)


I can say that RF Guru worked well enough for me in the US, but I can't speak anything for the UK.
Are you based over in the US? Cheers for the input.
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