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problem with DI'ing 12 string guitar

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problem with DI'ing 12 string guitar

Postby N.icholas » Fri May 18, 2012 9:16 am

Hi I am doing the sound for a small community festival this week-end.
One of the bands is a blues duo - who also played last year.
The guitarist has two electro acoustic guitars a 6 string and a 12 string. For the performance we used a Di - however although we could get a good signal from the 6 string - there appeared to be no output from the 12 string - as time was tight - after checking all settings and connections - we just went with using the 6 string for the set.
After the show I did ask the guitarist whether the pick-up on the 12 string was different - but he did not know.

I wonder if someone could spread some light on this - could it be to do with the type of pick-up on the guitar that caused the signal to be negligible when Di'd?

Again this year there will be little time - as we only ahve time for a sound check with the main band - we just have to heard the others on ( including groups of school kids)and off and run with it.

Many thanks

Nick
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Re: problem with DI'ing 12 string guitar

Postby Bob Bickerton » Fri May 18, 2012 9:37 am

For these sort of gigs, where you have no control over the pickups that people are bringing in, you need to have microphone contingencies.

A small condenser on a stand like a Sennheiser e614 can get you out of trouble quickly. Something like this is essential for these " guess whose coming on next" gigs.

There's can be a big difference between active (with on board preamp) and passive pickups, but a passive pickup should still be workable with a half decent DI box (You did have a DI box didn't you?). Another contingency would be to have a preamp DI like the LR Baggs ParaDI.

Oh and if the twelve string pick up is stuffed and they haven't fixed it 12 months on...... Well........ You may need a special insert........ And it'll make the guitarist's eyes water........

Bob
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Re: problem with DI'ing 12 string guitar

Postby Sheriton » Fri May 18, 2012 10:53 am

The number of strings makes no difference whatsoever. Flat batteries, dodgy jack sockets and dodgy cables are where to look for the problem. Been there many times...
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Re: problem with DI'ing 12 string guitar

Postby Mike Stranks » Fri May 18, 2012 11:30 am

Sheriton wrote:The number of strings makes no difference whatsoever. Flat batteries, dodgy jack sockets and dodgy cables are where to look for the problem. Been there many times...
Oh yes....
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Re: problem with DI'ing 12 string guitar

Postby Dave Gate » Fri May 18, 2012 11:47 am

Ironically I'd just read this thread when I got a phonecall asking if I'd like to spend tomorrow doing an all-day show, mainly featuring acoustic solo acts and duos.

So, firstly, must find cable tester, battery tester, mains tester, white tape, sharpie etc.

Secondly must read more threads on "What Ferrari?"
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Re: problem with DI'ing 12 string guitar

Postby artzmusic » Fri May 18, 2012 12:43 pm

gig bag: Spare cable ....check
9 volt batteries....check
AA batteries.......check
AAA batteries.....check

As an aside, I recently did a quick tracking session for a 12 stringer songwriter (mic'd and DI) and used headphones only. When he left I did playback on my Tanoys and noticed some fuzziness. Called him and asked him to check his guitar's preamp battery and - sure enough! Now that's the first thing I look for.


Rick
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Re: problem with DI'ing 12 string guitar

Postby mpostor » Fri May 18, 2012 2:27 pm

Don't forget to make up a chart detailing the charges for the batteries.
I put mine next to FOH so that the pricing policy is visible to all.

PP3 9v = £10

AA = £5 per battery

AAA = £5 per battery

Strings = £20 per pack

Cables = £20 deposit per cable, refundable on return

Drum key = £50 deposit refundable on return

Yes, I have spare batteries, but no, I'm not a charity.
If you don't like my prices, feel free to leave the venue and try to find somewhere that sells what you need. Maybe next time you'll remember to bring your own spares.



Stu.
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Re: problem with DI'ing 12 string guitar

Postby shufflebeat » Fri May 18, 2012 2:45 pm

mpostor wrote:Don't forget to make up a chart detailing the charges for the batteries.
I put mine next to FOH so that the pricing policy is visible to all.

PP3 9v = £10

AA = £5 per battery

AAA = £5 per battery

Strings = £20 per pack

Cables = £20 deposit per cable, refundable on return

Drum key = £50 deposit refundable on return

Yes, I have spare batteries, but no, I'm not a charity.
If you don't like my prices, feel free to leave the venue and try to find somewhere that sells what you need. Maybe next time you'll remember to bring your own spares.



Stu.

You're still pretty reasonable compared to my special "fiddle players" rates.
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Re: problem with DI'ing 12 string guitar

Postby N.icholas » Fri May 18, 2012 3:03 pm

Thanks for all the replies - well I will have to try and see if we can solve it on the day - unless it was a fault on the guitar pick-up which is now solved- but as these two gig reasonably regularly in pubs etc assume(d) was/is Ok .

Yes as said was DI'd ( active and phantom powered). I don't think the pick-up was active ( sure I asked at the time re batteries). The guitars were connected though an AB switch (his) - did offer two separate DI'd channels - but we even tried taking the switch out of the equation and connecting them separately through the DI- even swapping the guitar leads (i.e. using the one we knew worked on the 12 string)- but time basically ran out.

There was a contingency for micing - but we simply made the decision to go with the one guitar - which in fact he would have used for the majority of the set anyway.
Yes have some little pre-amps which take a guitar input which could consider using - a thought - but again time on the day with limited free channels ( or at lest ones I want to avoid swapping around between sets - as all set up for the main band !)

So from all of the above answers I can assume it was not the type of pick-up that was the problem (i.e compatability with going through a DI - just wondered!!!!!)- although it could have been the pick-up at fault?

Perhaps should not have put 12 string in the title!!!
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Re: problem with DI'ing 12 string guitar

Postby aekoi » Sun May 20, 2012 12:37 pm

If I ever encounter any missing acoustic guitar signals I plug the offending guitar straight into a guitar/bass amp (watch volumes and gains obv) using one of my special 'non crackly' leads (bands never seem to know where to buy these) and see if signal appears. If it doesn't I tell them that we can't extend their set time and that there's a Tesco a 2 minute dash down the road.
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Re: problem with DI'ing 12 string guitar

Postby Dave Gate » Sun May 20, 2012 1:09 pm

I got the guitar-with-non-functioning-pickup yeaterday. Stuck a mic in front of it. Sorted monitor levels out. Act went to get a drink, then went on stage. Halfway through the first song the pickup started working, which was a good thing as he moved around a bit.
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