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going live with POD guitar modeling

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going live with POD guitar modeling

Postby nalooti » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:13 am

Hi,

I already use POD Farm2 together with my Line6 UX2 (USB sound card) as Reaper's plugin or in standalone mode. And I'm very happy with it for recording/mixing.

However it is not easy to use it in live situations where for switching tones, I have to click with my mouse on the previously built and stored tones. I see no other problem bringing a laptop but switching tones with a mouse is really not practical.

I know that for live, there are other products like POD HD 300 or 500 but I have to rebuild my tones there without guarantee that I'll have the same exact tones because of different routing capabilities (among other reasons) between the two products.

Is there not a way to control the POD software with an external hardware foot switch ? All I'd need is : change tone (e.g. next tone in the user bank) every time I push a foot button switch.

I'm not sure POD Farm software does permit that but isn't is possible to control it via Reaper as a plugin in that way ?
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Re: going live with POD guitar modeling

Postby Gary_W » Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:06 am

I've no experience of Line 6 stuff as a plugin but perhaps it will listen to MIDI patch change information?

If that's the case then you just need to get a MIDI interface for your laptop (if you don't have one) and then some kind of floor pedal that does MIDI out. For this, you can just choose a MIDI controller pure and simple such as http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/FCB1010.aspx or you could just get a guitar multifx floor box that has MIDI out. That way, you can control your laptop software and, in the event of problems, you can continue to gig because the floor pedal will actually make a noise! http://www.roland.co.uk/products/productdetails.aspx?p=1187&c=46 for instance.

If you go for the Line 6 floor boxes, they claim to do MIDI in and out via USB. Might be worth a look / ask on the Line 6 forums if they will talk directly to your POD software via USB and drive that on your laptop?
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Re: going live with POD guitar modeling

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:38 am

The UX2 has two footswitch inputs, configured from within Pod Farm to switch presets from a 'setlist' it's all in the manual here http://line6.com/data/6/0a060b316ac34f0593c6818c4/applicatio... page 3.33

Having said that, the idea of using a laptop live for anything 'mission critical' gives me the screaming heeby-jeebys
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Re: going live with POD guitar modeling

Postby Gary_W » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:43 am

Sam Spoons wrote:

Having said that, the idea of using a laptop live for anything 'mission critical' gives me the screaming heeby-jeebys

Me too! Call me old fashioned but 'hardware it is' for me on the live front!
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Re: going live with POD guitar modeling

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:56 am

Gary_W wrote:
Sam Spoons wrote:

Having said that, the idea of using a laptop live for anything 'mission critical' gives me the screaming heeby-jeebys

Me too! Call me old fashioned but 'hardware it is' for me on the live front!

Guitar+tube screamer+valve amp=heaven
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Re: going live with POD guitar modeling

Postby nalooti » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:56 am

My goal is to avoid buying a floor box doing the guitar modeling so the Roland example or similar Line 6 products will not do.

I don't know much about MIDI but maybe a midi controller (as your Behringer example) is the way to go but I'm not sure that POD soft could be controlled that way. I have to ask and read about...

However going back to Reaper, actually all I may need is a way to control Reaper not the POD plugin within Reaper.
That is, suppose I have 3 tracks each with an instance of POD plugin. These tracks contain nothing i.e. no takes (I'd just use the track's FX and put in it an instance of POD plugin). In each instance, I configure a given amp model + FX chain. Then in order to switch between each FX/Amp chain, I have to:
- disarm for recording the previous track (corresponding FX chain goes off)
- arm for recording the new track (corresponding FX chain goes on)

Arming and disarming is just to be able to respectively hear or mute the corresponding track.

In short I need a way to control Reaper (not its POD plugin) by an external foot switch button.

Is this possible ?
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Re: going live with POD guitar modeling

Postby nalooti » Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:02 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:The UX2 has two footswitch inputs, configured from within Pod Farm to switch presets from a 'setlist' it's all in the manual here http://line6.com/data/6/0a060b316ac34f0593c6818c4/applicatio... page 3.33

Having said that, the idea of using a laptop live for anything 'mission critical' gives me the screaming heeby-jeebys

Oh thanks ! I'll check that.
The way I understand is that I'll not need to run Reaper but only POD Farm in standalone mode and switch tones using a hardware MIDI controller.
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Re: going live with POD guitar modeling

Postby Gary_W » Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:02 pm

If you read the manual that Sam linked to it answers your question - best off ignoring my advice above as I hadn't twigged that your interface can already do what you're asking. I don't actually own the products your talking about but clicking the link and using the index gave this quote here on page 2.7 of the manual

Footswitch and Expression Pedal Inputs - Connect up to two on/off footswitches in the Footswitch
1 & 2 inputs, and an expression pedal in the Expression input to send MIDI control messages to
POD Farm 2, or to any DAW or MIDI software. For the footswitch, you can use most any available
“momentary” or “sustain pedal” type footswitch that includes a 1/4 inch connector. For the expression
pedal, the Line 6 EX-1 pedal is designed just for this purpose, or you can use a 3rd party expression
pedal that includes a 1/4 inch connector.
To configure just what these footswitches or expression pedal controls transmit, use the MIDI Control
Settings dialog within the Line 6 Audio-MIDI Devices panel.* The MIDI control message is routed
out the KB37 USB MIDI Out Port. This MIDI port is selectable within POD Farm 2 or your DAW or
MIDI software to provide MIDI control of the desired software parameters. See “POD Farm 2 Plug-In
MIDI Control” on page 3•29.
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Re: going live with POD guitar modeling

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:11 pm

nalooti wrote:My goal is to avoid buying a floor box doing the guitar modeling so the Roland example or similar Line 6 products will not do.

I don't know much about MIDI but maybe a midi controller (as your Behringer example) is the way to go but I'm not sure that POD soft could be controlled that way. I have to ask and read about...

However going back to Reaper, actually all I may need is a way to control Reaper not the POD plugin within Reaper.
That is, suppose I have 3 tracks each with an instance of POD plugin. These tracks contain nothing i.e. no takes (I'd just use the track's FX and put in it an instance of POD plugin). In each instance, I configure a given amp model + FX chain. Then in order to switch between each FX/Amp chain, I have to:
- disarm for recording the previous track (corresponding FX chain goes off)
- arm for recording the new track (corresponding FX chain goes on)

Arming and disarming is just to be able to respectively hear or mute the corresponding track.

In short I need a way to control Reaper (not its POD plugin) by an external foot switch button.

Is this possible ?


How about you read the manual? It's definitely possible to control Reaper via midi, there's a whole chapter about it, also look here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-3hY5bu6TE for basic transport setup via midi, configure the UX footswitch inputs for this?
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Re: going live with POD guitar modeling

Postby Gary_W » Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:33 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:

Guitar+tube screamer+valve amp=heaven

Yup. I've been through most of the modellers. Great for what they do, but I'm certainly happier with the things of which you speak..... I actually gig with a 7w amp, mic'd up to the PA so it's not even like you need a big 'un. As to the tube screamer, I like it. But with my amp I prefer my home-made Klon clone - it's a better fit with my personal amp.
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Re: going live with POD guitar modeling

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:10 pm

Gary_W wrote:
Sam Spoons wrote:

Guitar+tube screamer+valve amp=heaven

Yup. I've been through most of the modellers. Great for what they do, but I'm certainly happier with the things of which you speak..... I actually gig with a 7w amp, mic'd up to the PA so it's not even like you need a big 'un. As to the tube screamer, I like it. But with my amp I prefer my home-made Klon clone - it's a better fit with my personal amp.

I built my bitsa P90 Strat a couple of years ago and last year built an Ampmaker 18 watt JTM45 clone combo, I usually don't need to mic it up. Small valve amps rule (BTW I have an old Tube Screamer but I usually use a TC Vintage Dual Distortion pedal, sort of two TS9's in one box)
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Re: going live with POD guitar modeling

Postby nalooti » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:42 pm

Thank you Sam, Gary for your help.

Actually I do read a lot manuals but I know nothing about MIDI and until today had no use of them. For me MIDI is a cloud/black box and I usually skip anything MIDI in the manual.

Now, I know I have to read them...

And sorry if I did waste your time.

Regarding going live with a laptop, I've read an article from Paul White here. He said he uses a laptop in gigs but only with batteries because he found hums when connecting the AC converter.

Maybe someday having cash I'll buy the hardware and avoid bringing laptop for live.

thanks again!
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Re: going live with POD guitar modeling

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:55 pm

You're welcome Laptops are getting more reliable these days but they're still not completely so and a crash would be catastrophic. I'd make sure I had some kind of backup plan, even if it's only an iPod for backing tracks and a cheap stompbox for the guitar, at least that way the show can go on.

Good luck.
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Re: going live with POD guitar modeling

Postby nalooti » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:33 pm

OK; I'll not forget that !

In the meantime I was reading...

Before getting into details of MIDI commands, I don't get how to connect any FBV (Line6 pedal MIDI switch) to my UX2 which has only two 1/4" jacks for that purpose (page 2.6 of Advanced guide manual).
All those controllers connect with RJ45. So I suppose they go straight to the PC to control the POD soft.
It would be easier to connect them to my UX2 if possible. Otherwise I don't know what are those jacks are for in UX2!
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Re: going live with POD guitar modeling

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:11 pm

It says in the manual you can use any momentary footswitch to send midi control data using the UX's footswitch jacks
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Re: going live with POD guitar modeling

Postby Dave Rowles » Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:25 pm

Gary_W wrote:
Sam Spoons wrote:

Having said that, the idea of using a laptop live for anything 'mission critical' gives me the screaming heeby-jeebys

Me too! Call me old fashioned but 'hardware it is' for me on the live front!

Well, I know quite a couple of quite big live acts who rely on a laptop for their sound, admittedly it's for keys and not guitar, but it's no less critical.

Only you know how reliable your laptop is. But mine's never let me down for anything.

That said, for electric guitar, you can't beat a nice valve amp.
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Re: going live with POD guitar modeling

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:52 pm

Dave Rowles wrote:
Gary_W wrote:
Sam Spoons wrote:

Having said that, the idea of using a laptop live for anything 'mission critical' gives me the screaming heeby-jeebys

Me too! Call me old fashioned but 'hardware it is' for me on the live front!

Well, I know quite a couple of quite big live acts who rely on a laptop for their sound, admittedly it's for keys and not guitar, but it's no less critical.

Only you know how reliable your laptop is. But mine's never let me down for anything.

That said, for electric guitar, you can't beat a nice valve amp.

I'll bet they have a backup though
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Re: going live with POD guitar modeling

Postby Dave Rowles » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:03 pm

Nope!

One keys player I know has 3 control keyboards and runs some taurus pedals that are in front of the bassist. All off 1 mac, no backup, no fall back option.

It's only ever gone wrong once, when the Taurus sound didn't load properly on one patch for some reason. All the other sounds loaded, but no Taurus. But that didn't happened again for the rest of the tour.
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Re: going live with POD guitar modeling

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:20 pm

So they do go wrong then
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Re: going live with POD guitar modeling

Postby Dave Rowles » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:00 pm

True, but no more regularly than hardware. In fact, I've had hardware keyboards and synths fail on tour far more regularly than the computer based ones. I've had patches not load properly on hardware synths as well, so it's not just a computer based problem. In fact I've had more hardware failures in general than my Macbook ever has.

To be honest, laptops are far more reliable than they were 5 years ago, and if it generates the sound you want, why not use it?

For me it's not a reliability issue that stops me using my Macbook for mixing a live show, it's the fact that it's fiddly to use, and a hardware mixer, be it digital or analogue, is much quicker and easier to use.
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