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Good Vocal Microphone?

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Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby VioletAneurysm » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:25 pm

I've been searching for a really good vocal mic that would work well for a punk rock/grunge band with a female singer that can handle some screaming from time to time. I've used some really cheap and terrible microphones in the past and I need something that I can actually play gigs with. Is there any good mic's you would recommend, that aren't extremely expensive?
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Re: Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby Runaway » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:16 pm

Hmm, punk/rock, screaming, inexpensive, play gigs with....
Shure SM58 - takes a lickin' and keeps on ticking.
If you need a bit more 'tops' go for a Beta58
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Re: Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby Jabba1 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:56 pm

Runaway wrote:Hmm, punk/rock, screaming, inexpensive, play gigs with....
Shure SM58 - takes a lickin' and keeps on ticking.
If you need a bit more 'tops' go for a Beta58

or an AKG D5.... slightly better resistance to feedback than the 58... just as an alternative.
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Re: Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby shufflebeat » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:44 am

Runaway wrote:Hmm, punk/rock, screaming, inexpensive, play gigs with....
Shure SM58 - takes a lickin' and keeps on ticking.
If you need a bit more 'tops' go for a Beta58

Minor qualification:

The improved top end on my beta58s didn't last forever but the improved midrange and overall integrity of sound is still apparent.
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Re: Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:09 am

+1 to all above but most important, try before you buy.
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Re: Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby Stef Andrews » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:13 am

I've often preferred either the SM or Beta 57 on female voices. Something to think about. Definitely go to a decent shop and ask to try as many mics as you can. £100 should be more than enough.
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Re: Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby The Korff » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:29 am

Jabba1 wrote:
or an AKG D5.... slightly better resistance to feedback than the 58... just as an alternative.

I'm a fan of these, and the C5 capacitor too if you want a bit more air (though feedback creeps in earlier with the latter). Definitely check out the D5 though, they cost less than a 58, sound better and look and feel like they'll take as much of a beating.

Cheers!

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Re: Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby PSR » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:19 pm

If the price of the '58 puts you off try these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000S5JKRQ/?tag=hydra0b-21&hvadid=9550932909&ref=asc_df_B000S5JKRQ

AKG D5

I have two of these and they work well. Someone on this forum described them as C*** proof so should be good for punk! ( no disrespect intended - just saying lol )
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Re: Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby Chris Barlow » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:04 pm

best thing i did was get away from shures , i had 58 , 58a and betas for years .. then saw the light .
Try a Samson Q8 they about 60 quid..
if you wanna spend a bit more go EV 767 or even better is the 967..
please bear in mind , all voices are different , different mics suit different voices .
i think adidas samba are uncomfy , but my mate swears by em ......u know wot i mean
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Re: Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby TheChorltonWheelie » Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:02 am

Runaway wrote:Shure SM58 - takes a lickin' and keeps on ticking.


On a related note, regarding the SM58.

I cannot comprehend why anyone would buy an SM58 these days. There are far better alternatives at the same price (or less in most cases) point, all of which are as reliable as the SM58, and the notion that it's a "known quantity" can only be utter nonsense as that "quantity" is extremely poor when compared to an EV767, D5, OM5 etc, etc.

If you bought Tesco own-brand beans, but they were more expensive than the Heinz variety, you wouldn't stomach it (forgive the pun), but that's exactly the situation you're in if you buy an SM58.

Having said that, I do have an SM58 in my collection, for those foolish enough to request one, but on every occasion they'll swap to the EV/Audix/AKG once they've seen (read: heard) the light.
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Re: Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby James Perrett » Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:56 am

TheChorltonWheelie wrote:

I cannot comprehend why anyone would buy an SM58 these days. There are far better alternatives at the same price (or less in most cases) point, all of which are as reliable as the SM58, and the notion that it's a "known quantity" can only be utter nonsense as that "quantity" is extremely poor when compared to an EV767, D5, OM5 etc, etc.

You've never used some of the PA's I've used then. The finesse of the mics you mentioned is completely lost through some PA's while the SM58 still works fine. While the SM58 may not be the best mic for a given job, it will always get the job done acceptably - unlike just about any other mic I've tried. Other mics always have their weak spots and will sound unacceptably bad in some circumstances.

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Re: Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby dickiefunk » Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:44 pm

Jabba1 wrote:
Runaway wrote:Hmm, punk/rock, screaming, inexpensive, play gigs with....
Shure SM58 - takes a lickin' and keeps on ticking.
If you need a bit more 'tops' go for a Beta58

or an AKG D5.... slightly better resistance to feedback than the 58... just as an alternative.

Another recommendation for the D5. It also has a higher output than the 58 meaning less gain on the desk. They are an absolute bargain at £52 new! It's the best value live mic I've tried.

Sennheiser E935 and Audix OM7 are other very nice live vocal mics but they cost around £140 and £160 each.

The Shure Beta 58 is also a good mic but can sound harsh on certain voices! As with every mic it depends on the voice and setting that you will be using it.
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Re: Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby Dave Rowles » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:49 pm

James Perrett wrote:
You've never used some of the PA's I've used then. The finesse of the mics you mentioned is completely lost through some PA's while the SM58 still works fine. While the SM58 may not be the best mic for a given job, it will always get the job done acceptably - unlike just about any other mic I've tried. Other mics always have their weak spots and will sound unacceptably bad in some circumstances.

James.

+1

An SM58 will do all jobs acceptably. Other mics will do a job brilliantly, and other jobs badly. If you want a workhorse mic that you can shove on anything and get an acceptable sound out of it's a great mic.

However, if you want a mic specifically for vocal, then get your hands on a load of mics and test them on the vocal. Find which one works best for your vocal. Lots of great suggestions here for alternatives!
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Re: Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby TheChorltonWheelie » Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:35 pm

James Perrett wrote:The finesse of the mics you mentioned is completely lost through some PA's while the SM58 still works fine. While the SM58 may not be the best mic for a given job, it will always get the job done acceptably - unlike just about any other mic I've tried. Other mics always have their weak spots and will sound unacceptably bad in some circumstances.
James.

The finesse may well be lost through a cheap PA, but even without that finesse they'd still sound better than an SM58: the SM58 is so muffled, with little or no top end.

I'd be suitable impressed if you can find a situation where an EV767 would sound unacceptably bad, whilst the SM58 would provide acceptable results. I simply don't believe there is such a situation, infact I'd be absolutely staggered.

Let's not forget, we're talking about vocals mics.
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Re: Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby Bob Bickerton » Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:14 pm

I have around ten different vocal stage mics in my collection and, generally speaking, the SM58 is my least favourite. It is low fi compared to everything else, grainy and edgy. Which probably makes it a perfect choice for the OP's genre. If you require a mic which is less prone to feedback, not that the 58 is poor in this respect, then the Audix OM7 can take anything you throw at it, still has good cut and has by far the best feedback rejection I've come across.

There's some truth in James comment that an SM58 sort of works with any sound system. But this is fast becoming a myth as sound systems improve, however, it certainly accounts for its fine, but fast becoming outdated reputation.

Another reason the Beta and SM 58s will continue to be specified on riders is because there's so many alternatives available it would be hit and miss to specific anything other than the lowest common denominator.

My advice to any vocalist is to find the mic that best suits your voice, buy it and travel with it.

Bob
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Re: Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby Guy Johnson » Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:01 pm

TheChorltonWheelie wrote:

On a related note, regarding the SM58.

I cannot comprehend why anyone would buy an SM58 these days. There are far better alternatives at the same price (or less in most cases) point, all of which are as reliable as the SM58, and the notion that it's a "known quantity" can only be utter nonsense as that "quantity" is extremely poor when compared to an EV767, D5, OM5 etc, etc.

If you bought Tesco own-brand beans, but they were more expensive than the Heinz variety, you wouldn't stomach it (forgive the pun), but that's exactly the situation you're in if you buy an SM58.

Having said that, I do have an SM58 in my collection, for those foolish enough to request one, but on every occasion they'll swap to the EV/Audix/AKG once they've seen (read: heard) the light.

Because

* they really suit some voices
* they really suit some voices and some performers have the SM58 art perfected.
* many people are happy with a good old friend in new environments
* you can bang in proud floorboard nails with them
* riders
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Re: Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby TheChorltonWheelie » Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:43 am

Guy Johnson wrote:

* they really suit some voices
* they really suit some voices and some performers have the SM58 art perfected.
* many people are happy with a good old friend in new environments
* you can bang in proud floorboard nails with them
* riders

Some valid points, but, there's still absolutely no evidence that an SM58 can out-perform other microphones in certain situations, it simply isn't the case. Never ever have I had a situation where I've had a mic on stage, with issues, and then thought "I know, the SM58 will sort that out!!".

And I've absolutely never had a voice that "suited" an SM58, that then didn't sound better/richer/more detailed with a replacement like the 767, D5, OM5/7 etc.

The SM58 Beta is a different proposition, I do have one, and it does get regular use, but it's a better mic because it's closer to those others mentioned with it's better mid/top-end detail, i.e. less like a standard SM58.
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Re: Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby Mike Stranks » Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:36 am

I agree with much of what has been said about SM58s - I don't own any among my far-too-large selection of vocal mics as, whatever the voice, I've always found that I have something in the box that will do the job better. (That said, they used to be my 'go to'.)

But the argument about riders is strong. I'm fortunate now in that I rarely get a rider and singers who seem surprised when I don't give them a 58 - standard or Beta - are soon won-round when they hear their voice through my alternative. But if you're earning your crust in a world where riders are an everyday occurrence, you'd be crazy to turn work away because you don't have requested gear which is relatively cheap in terms of the overall cost of a system.

When the man is waving the wad of notes at you and says 'jump', the only response if you want to stay in business is, "How high?"
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Re: Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby dickiefunk » Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:44 am

Mike Stranks wrote:I agree with much of what has been said about SM58s - I don't own any among my far-too-large selection of vocal mics as, whatever the voice, I've always found that I have something in the box that will do the job better. (That said, they used to be my 'go to'.)

But the argument about riders is strong. I'm fortunate now in that I rarely get a rider and singers who seem surprised when I don't give them a 58 - standard or Beta - are soon won-round when they hear their voice through my alternative.

Yes I had a similar experience recently. Had a touring artist over from Canada who requested a beta 58 on her voice but I had the Sennheiser E935. During her soundcheck I had 'ooh that sounds nice, what mic is this?'

I do still like the beta 58 on certain male vocals though.
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Re: Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby Guy Johnson » Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:33 am

TheChorltonWheelie wrote: Some valid points, but, there's still absolutely no evidence that an SM58 can out-perform other microphones in certain situations, it simply isn't the case. Never ever have I had a situation where I've had a mic on stage, with issues, and then thought "I know, the SM58 will sort that out!!"

I have: An example here. I was engineering this artist who wanted to use his KMS 105 on a noisy stage... A '58 fixed the feedback and stage-clatter problem, quickly. This was the 'go-to' mic for me rather than another (maybe better) one. Different tools for different situations.

TheChorltonWheelie wrote:And I've absolutely never had a voice that "suited" an SM58, that then didn't sound better/richer/more detailed with a replacement like the 767, D5, OM5/7 etc.

I usually try (depending on time and the artist) very good and different vocal mics, and sometimes a '58 has outperformed on a specific voice. No question.

TheChorltonWheelie wrote:The SM58 Beta is a different proposition, I do have one, and it does get regular use, but it's a better mic because it's closer to those others mentioned with it's better mid/top-end detail, i.e. less like a standard SM58.

Shure, the beta is a good tool, generally prefer it to a standard '58. I had a beta until it died, but now I usually prefer other mics: I find beta '58s a tad sibilant, with a less ballsy bass-end than than some others.

By the way, the list I made above was in answer to the question 'why buy a '58?' ... not saying they are better or worse ... it's just that some performers with years of experience will make them 'the best'!
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Re: Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby TheChorltonWheelie » Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:52 pm

Mike Stranks wrote:When the man is waving the wad of notes at you and says 'jump', the only response if you want to stay in business is, "How high?"

Customer: "Shure??"
Me: "Yes, perfectly sure, you're better off with an EV767!!"

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Re: Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby Guy Johnson » Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:58 pm

Ha ha! Anyway, I got the pun in first!
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Re: Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby turbodave » Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:08 pm

I have 10 vocal mics. One of them is an SM58. Some people like its aesthetic, some like its sound. I have one if required. I have no problem using one. If it sounds bad , I will use another mic, if it sounds good I will use it. For me no mic is a complete all rounder, but the SM58 comes close! Dave
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Re: Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby James Perrett » Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:25 pm

TheChorltonWheelie wrote:Never ever have I had a situation where I've had a mic on stage, with issues, and then thought "I know, the SM58 will sort that out!!".

I guess you've not been doing PA as long as I have then. I've used plenty of PA's over the years which simply don't have the high end to work with most of the suggestions here. Yes, they're becoming rarer but they still exist. Name me another mic that works as well through a 2x12 cab with no high frequency drivers.

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Re: Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby agent funk » Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:51 pm

I would like to chime in from a musicians point of view. I can vouch for what James is saying. I have witnessed many "choice" mics just not happening at a venue, out comes the SM58 and the problems are sorted. Seen it so often I wonder if PA's are designed for/around SM58's.

One point, NEVER buy one on ebay, the SM57 & SM58 on there are 99% of the time bad fakes, many of which don't even have a transformer in them.
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Re: Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby TheChorltonWheelie » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:46 am

James Perrett wrote:
TheChorltonWheelie wrote:Never ever have I had a situation where I've had a mic on stage, with issues, and then thought "I know, the SM58 will sort that out!!".

I guess you've not been doing PA as long as I have then. I've used plenty of PA's over the years which simply don't have the high end to work with most of the suggestions here. Yes, they're becoming rarer but they still exist. Name me another mic that works as well through a 2x12 cab with no high frequency drivers.

James.

Firstly, we're talking about vocals.
Secondly, I've done well over 1500-1800 gigs, so I'm not coming from the perspective of being wet behind the ears.
Thirdly, I'd use an SM57 on the front and a Sennheiser 609 on the back, I wouldn't be using an SM58.

This argument is simply daft, it doesn't have the best rejection, it's nowhere near the same frequency response as other similarly priced microphones, it lacks mid and top, and at the moment there has only been one example where an SM58 "might" be better than another microphone and that "might" is a purely personal opinion.

I can accept that people like the "safe" sound of an SM58, but that's it, and that's not a good enough reason to recommend a microphone to someone.
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Re: Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby TheChorltonWheelie » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:48 am

fletcher wrote:I have witnessed many "choice" mics just not happening at a venue, out comes the SM58 and the problems are sorted.

Exactly what problems did it sort? It can't be rejection issues, and it certainly can be clarity or detail.

The issue in this thread, thus far, is that the SM58 has been hailed as an all-solving mic, but other than one example from James, no one else has managed to detail what that problem was that the SM58 sorted.
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Re: Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby shufflebeat » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:14 am

I suspect it's because vocal mics are designed to sound great on vocals while the '58, separate from the design process, have been chosen by generations of sound guys, technically savvy or otherwise, to fit in a live mix constructed by way of all the other current gear, guitar and bass amps, piezo pickups, nasty loud drumkits, etc.

Looks in part like application of 'survival of the best adapted'.
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Re: Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby agent funk » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:30 am

I've no idea what problems it sorts - I'm just the guy at the back waiting to get sound check over. All I know is I've seen singers not happy, PA guys running around not happy and the SM58 just sorting it all out. Maybe your right, maybe it's not the best mic. However it seems to be the most reliable, night after night of abuse, it just keeps working.
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Re: Good Vocal Microphone?

Postby James Perrett » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:40 am

TheChorltonWheelie wrote:
Thirdly, I'd use an SM57 on the front and a Sennheiser 609 on the back, I wouldn't be using an SM58.

The 2x12 is the PA speaker

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