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Heavier Sub Speakers

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Heavier Sub Speakers

Postby Renoman » Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:27 pm

I have 2 - 8 ohm 15" EV subs rated 400 watts at 8 ohms with a 2" voice coil. I run them with a Crown Amp bridged to 1650 watts at 8 ohms. They are in parallel making them about 3000 into 4 ohms for the 2 boxes and they just don't kick. I'm thinking of upgrading them to 600 watt spaekers with 3 or 4" voice coils. Will this make a sizeable difference? Likely EV's or JBL's but I'm open to suggestions.
I'm crossing over at 170hz in an effort to take a bit of load off my JBL Eon xt's [a wonderful speaker by the way]and give the bass guitar a better shot.
3 piece rock cover band mostly 1-200 people venues.

All advice greatly appreciated.
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Re: Heavier Sub Speakers

Postby dmills » Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:43 pm

There is no point in considering the driver in isolation, a speaker is a system not just a driver and you need to look at the performance of the system as given on the spec sheet not just the size of the magnet or coil.

If these are really subs, not merely woofers then it is entirely possible that you have the best part of an octave wide hole in your response where the subs are topping out and your 170hz crossover point has not yet allowed the eons to start to work.

What are these EV subs?
Model numbers would really help.

You cannot judge a speaker simply on power and voice coil size, you actually need to look at the spec sheets for things like sensitivity (Which can vary by 10dB or more), the details of how the box manages it are secondary.

Regards, Dan.
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Re: Heavier Sub Speakers

Postby Renoman » Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:01 am

Thanks for your response.
EVM-15B, 400 watts @ 8ohm, 50 to 5000hz, 10'@1 watt =92.5db, 2.5" voice coil.
Weight = 21 lbs.Mounted in a Kroth [pro made enclosure] box.
A very common speaker here in Canada, maybe I'm just expecting too much from them, just wondering if a meatier unit would be more efficient? There should be lots of power there unless the Crown XTI 2000 amp is somehow not right.
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Re: Heavier Sub Speakers

Postby Falconhell » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:56 am

The efficiency of those EV drivers is very low, 92.5db 1w/1m A JBL 2226H will handle 600W and
give 97db 1W 1M, a very useful 5db extra output. Can be found on eaby at fairly cheap prices secondhand these days. That said 15" subs only go so far, an 18" sub would be better.
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Re: Heavier Sub Speakers

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:58 am

Falconhell wrote:The efficiency of those EV drivers is very low, 92.5db 1w/1m A JBL 2226H will handle 600W and
give 97db 1W 1M, a very useful 5db extra output. Can be found on eaby at fairly cheap prices secondhand these days. That said 15" subs only go so far, an 18" sub would be better.

I'm not sure if it's a typo or a different sensitivity measure (the OP being in Canada) but he specified the driver as 92.5dB @ 10'/1 watt (ten feet at one watt?) if that's correct it's measured at 3 metres so you can add around 4-5dB making it, say, 97dB for 1watt/1metre which is about average.
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Re: Heavier Sub Speakers

Postby benniferj » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:18 am

Renoman wrote:I have 2 - 8 ohm 15" EV subs rated 400 watts at 8 ohms with a 2" voice coil. I run them with a Crown Amp bridged to 1650 watts at 8 ohms. They are in parallel making them about 3000 into 4 ohms for the 2 boxes and they just don't kick.

So if i'm reading this correctly... you have 2 subs. Each is 8ohm. You're running them so they're presenting a 4ohm load to the Crown amp that's been bridged, which expects an 8 ohm load. So you're totally running that amp into the ground by running it at an ohmage that it shouldn't be! It might be a bit upset and not outputting what you're expecting it to!

Not knowing the amp model I can't say for sure but you'd be surely better off running it in 2 independent channel mode which would kick around 400-600w per channel depending on the model, but at the correct 8ohm L and 8ohm R ?
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Re: Heavier Sub Speakers

Postby MarkPAman » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:15 pm

The sensitivity figure is given as 1 Watt at ten feet = 92.5dB and 400W at 4 feet as 126dB

That amp does 2000W at 4 ohm bridged.
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Re: Heavier Sub Speakers

Postby dmills » Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:19 pm

The pertinent question is the design of the box and if it is designed to suit the driver it is fitted with?

One should not exchange drivers without doing the maths on the speaker enclosure to ensure you will get a reasonable output where you need it, failure to do this will usually give a disappointing result and may lead to blown drivers. Most of this maths is in fact just arithmetic and sometimes a little algebra, nothing to be scared of and it will allow you to best pick the driver that suits your boxes.

That amp should be ok for those boxes, but you might be lacking in the lower mids or be expecting deeper bass then the box is tuned for (Which just wastes power with very little sound being produced), punch the box and port dimensions into a enclosure calculator program together with the ts parameters of your proposed driver and see what it will do.

Regards, Dan.
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Re: Heavier Sub Speakers

Postby robare99 » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:15 pm

You're in Canada? Visit Long & McQuade and demo a pair of yorkvile LS801p's
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Re: Heavier Sub Speakers

Postby Renoman » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:44 pm

Thanks for the Advice Men, I think I'll try them in individual channels first and see how that goes. I'll report back in two weeks [after the next gig]. The stats are right off the EV PDF sheet.
I also notice that the subs perform better when I have the volumes on the Eons down to 75%.
I'd go to 18s but I'm too old to carry em, I also don't like what 18's and large coil 15's do to my bass sound, fine for thump but not much musicality. A World of compromise I guess. I may have to return to my Eden 800/410 cab but then, there goes the stage volume.
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Re: Heavier Sub Speakers

Postby Renoman » Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:06 pm

Well I took em apart and the spider on one sub had come unglued for about 3". Glued, fixed, big change!
I have a BBE max 3 crossover and have never really grasped how to set the input gains.
I usually set everything at 12 o'clock and work from there.
In two channels there is an input gain, a low gain and a high gain + a sonic maximizer button with low contour and Process. No usable manual with this thing and nothing on line that I could find.
My subs are bridged, they need about 1600 watts, I've got 2000. My Eon xt's have 625 each and seem to sound better when turned down to about 3/4 volume.
Would I be better off to turn down the sub power and increase the input or low gain? Maybe tighten up the sound? I guess what I'm wondering is there such a thing as too much head room?
I've never seen a clip light blink on this thing and the sub lights never go even close to clipping.
Any links to worthwhile articles would be great, I know it's a hassle explaining this stuff.
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