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Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

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Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby shindigger » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:55 pm

Just to say, i'm on my 2nd unit from 2 different suppliers in as many days.
They have both arrived with faults.
One humming like a bastard out of one channel, and the other hissing on one channel and virtually dead on the other.
This is my first venture in to Behringer land as on paper at least, this seemed a good piece of kit for conference AV.
I had read that their reputation was improved. It would seem not to be the case.
Complete waste of time.
I will not be returning to Behringer land.
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Re: Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:15 pm

I presume you checked your cables thoroughly before concluding that both Behringer units were faulty -- if only because the faults you describe could easily be cable-related.

Behringer claims it has improved QC and I'm sure it's trying, but this is still bargain basement equipment. Nevertheless two such serious faults on two different products from unrelated suppliers seems pretty unusual.

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Re: Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby shindigger » Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:36 pm

Hello Hugh.
Yes all cables checked, and swapped out twice over.
The first unit worked ok-ish, just had a low hum on one output channel.
The second, loud hiss in one channel, and dead the other side.

I thought their stuff had moved up a notch re reliability.
Certainly this unit gets good/rave reviews all over the net.
I wont be trusting my reputation with them again.
Happily neither unit got out the door before the faults were discovered.

One of the units was a refurb, direct from their UK distributor.
Disappointing and a waste of time.
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Re: Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby Persian Bit » Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:38 pm

You gotta be extremly unlucky to receive two damaged units. as commented, cables can be behind your problem.

I've been using their stuff for 10 years mostly for live engineering. Believe me, I don't have any friendship with that company, but I haven't had any problem with my purchases. We still use their Euroedesk 9000 for rehearsal and FOH mixing along with lots of outboards [including their feedback destroyers, EQ, Fx,etc.]. Maybe I'm extremly lucky, but we haven't experienced anything wrong with them.

Cheap prices and sometimes smart products have been the reason behind our purchases, and I completely agree that the overal quality is not top notch. but you get what you pay for.

For sure, all stories about faulty devices and problems come from real experiences. But I also guess their cheap prices and simple designs attract a lot of young musicians who are just learning the job and may not be aware of possible mistakes.

A few weeks ago a college dude was complaining about how sh!ty his new purchased audio interface is. He had returned it and recived a new one, but the problem was still there. Upon my question, he was upset with the unit's very low gain and lots of noises and hiss. After a simple check, I found out he'd been using Line inputs on his interface for Mic\Guitar sources! It was only about pushing an small "Mic\Line' switch,and before the check, he was dead sure the units is broken... :-)

ps. I bought all those Beh gears from local stores and not ordering online, so I was able to test the units before taking them home. Maybe that would make a difference.
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Re: Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby shindigger » Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:39 pm

Ive got no cable issues whatsoever.
Guaranteed.
Neutrik and Van Damme all the way.
Double checked.

By the way im 47 and been doing this for years.
If that helps.
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Re: Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby Persian Bit » Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:43 pm

Of course you're an experienced guy my friend. I wasn't pointing to you by refering to young dudes. It was an overall comment cause I've seen it a lot.

By the way I know how disappointing it is be in such situation and I feel for you. Hopefully you can return them and get rid of that.
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Re: Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby shindigger » Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:51 pm

Cheers. Please excuse my tetchiness.
Am hacked off, with myself as much as anything, for bothering with this stuff.
Got 2 boxes in my front room, waiting to go back. Better not mix them up!!

Anyone used this?
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/QF215/

I figure as i'm buying an EQ i might as well have the flashing feedback lights.
If not, i'll probably buy the DBX 215.
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Re: Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby seablade » Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:26 pm

Persian Bit wrote:
I've been using their stuff for 10 years mostly for live engineering. Believe me, I don't have any friendship with that company, but I haven't had any problem with my purchases. We still use their Euroedesk 9000 for rehearsal and FOH mixing along with lots of outboards [including their feedback destroyers, EQ, Fx,etc.]. Maybe I'm extremly lucky, but we haven't experienced anything wrong with them.

You have been EXTREMELY lucky.

Sad to say the experience provided by the OP is not uncommon for Behringer in my experience, part of why I do my best to avoid them, and why I haven't bought an x32 despite it's good reviews. I simply can't afford to risk the reputation and past experience repeating, even if I am told that it is great kit (And in fact I have mixed on them before and it wasn't bad).

I would go so far as to say the OP has been lucky in that the problems were apparent out of the box. Just as typical is for them to fail suddenly down the road at a very inopportune time.

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Re: Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby shindigger » Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:43 pm

Amen. This was my first and last dabble with Behringer.
If i was retailing this stuff, i would check every box before it went out.
(Probably impossible i know).
I'm looking at combined courier fees of about £35-40 to get this stuff back to the sellers.
Happily all covered by the retailers.

What a waste of time.
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Re: Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby Music Wolf » Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:55 pm

I actually caught myself considering a purchase of a 1502 within the last couple of days but then I thought - don't be silly, you'll only regret it.

My experiences with Behringer gear have been somewhat different. I can't actually recall a product failing, it's always been a case of me regretting buying cut price (you do generally get what you pay for in this world). Almost all of my Behringer gear has been consigned to the scrap heap. The exceptions being my headphone amp (which is fit for purpose) and my GI100 DI box with cab simulation (sort of Red Box lookalike) which I find is excellent for bass. In fact only the other week a friend was asking me how I good such a great bass sound on a recording.

Worst purchase ever - Behringer Truth monitors.
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Re: Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:55 pm

shindigger wrote:Yes all cables checked, and swapped out twice over.

Fair enough.

The first unit worked ok-ish, just had a low hum on one output channel.
The second, loud hiss in one channel, and dead the other side.

Not impressive QC then... :x

I thought their stuff had moved up a notch re reliability.

That's certainly the claim they've been making in recent times... maybe these were old-stock units (he said clutching at melting straws! ;) )

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Re: Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby shindigger » Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:38 pm

The concept is a good one.
Shame the quality doesn't match up.
That said, it was the many good reviews that lured me in, against my better judgement.

And yes, they could have both been new old stock as the first was a refurb from their HQ.
This was actually less bad than the "new" one from another, better known, supplier.
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Re: Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby shindigger » Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:42 pm

I'm going after one of these i think.
5 year warranty to boot.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/QF215/
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Re: Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:08 pm

Will 15 bands provide enough resolution? Have you looked at the DBX 231S?

http://www.thomann.de/gb/dbx_231s.htm

Not much more expensive, but a proper 31-band graphic.

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Re: Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby DGL. » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:13 pm

All I'll say is that going from the x32 thread on soundforums.net and the fact they have sold 30,000+ X32's and that only a few problems have surfaced (an incorrect cable routing and incorrect fitting of a belt on the motor faders) they seem to be doing much better on the qc front, although, that is a product miles away in quality from a lot of their cheaper stuff.

Yes QC has been shoddy to say the least in the past, my 1832FX had a channel go down in just over a year and slowly deteriorated after that, but then you do get a lot for your money.
Maybe the Midas/KT/Turbosound influence might start to trickle down to the cheaper ranges.
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Re: Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby seablade » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:17 pm

DGL. wrote:
Maybe the Midas/KT/Turbosound influence might start to trickle down to the cheaper ranges.

My real concern is influence trickling in the opposite direction.

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Re: Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby shindigger » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:24 pm

Hi Hugh
Well, i really only need this for ringing out rooms for conference work.
I'm fairly sure i want to stay the other side of the mic where live sound is concerned.
Corporate AV is better paid, and you don't get your SM58s helpfully dunked in pints at the end of the gig.
Yes this DID happen to me once...

As i already own a Mackie VLZ desk, I decided to build a system with "seperates", rather than the Mixer/Amp/GEQ combo. Its prime purpose will be controlling lapel mics.
Have A/B'd with my back up Mackie PPM box, and i have to say i made the right choice.
Sounds WAAAAY better.

The 5/6 band GEQ on a Powerstation or a Powermate always seemed to be adequate in conference land, so i'm hoping 15 bands is fine for vox plus programme music.
I'm a one man operation, in a Ford Focus, so am only punting for 150 heads or so max.
I know my limits.

Cheers.
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Re: Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby DGL. » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:33 pm

seablade wrote:
DGL. wrote:
Maybe the Midas/KT/Turbosound influence might start to trickle down to the cheaper ranges.

My real concern is influence trickling in the opposite direction.

Seablade

I don't think that will happen, yes the x32 tech may go into a cheaper MIDAS but that isn't too bad.
I think Uli knows it's important to keep the high end brands profile up as it makes a good beacon for the music group. He has a lot invested in those companies and I'm sure he would not want to see them fall and all his money with it.
Plus he now has a company that can provide the kit for full pro installs, Midas Mixers, KT EQ and Processing and Turbosound speakers.
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Re: Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby seablade » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:34 pm

shindigger wrote:Hi Hugh
Well, i really only need this for ringing out rooms for conference work.
I'm fairly sure i want to stay the other side of the mic where live sound is concerned.
Corporate AV is better paid, and you don't get your SM58s helpfully dunked in pints at the end of the gig.
Yes this DID happen to me once...

As i already own a Mackie VLZ desk, I decided to build a system with "seperates", rather than the Mixer/Amp/GEQ combo. Its prime purpose will be controlling lapel mics.
Have A/B'd with my back up Mackie PPM box, and i have to say i made the right choice.
Sounds WAAAAY better.

The 5/6 band GEQ on a Powerstation or a Powermate always seemed to be adequate in conference land, so i'm hoping 15 bands is fine for vox plus programme music.
I'm a one man operation, in a Ford Focus, so am only punting for 150 heads or so max.
I know my limits.

Cheers.

Personally I would still look at the dBX 31 band for this, but to each their own:) I am not a particularly large fan of Peavey either though.

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Re: Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby shindigger » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:54 pm

Will browse the range! It does seem that DBX are the go to box.
I did read a few less than glowing words re the Peavey too.
It's possible i'll get my hands on a freebie 2 channel Sabine in the not too distant future, so i might hold fire.
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Re: Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby ef37a » Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:14 pm

Music Wolf wrote:I actually caught myself considering a purchase of a 1502 within the last couple of days but then I thought - don't be silly, you'll only regret it.

My experiences with Behringer gear have been somewhat different. I can't actually recall a product failing, it's always been a case of me regretting buying cut price (you do generally get what you pay for in this world). Almost all of my Behringer gear has been consigned to the scrap heap. The exceptions being my headphone amp (which is fit for purpose) and my GI100 DI box with cab simulation (sort of Red Box lookalike) which I find is excellent for bass. In fact only the other week a friend was asking me how I good such a great bass sound on a recording.

Worst purchase ever - Behringer Truth monitors.

Well, you always have to be suspicious of any low priced gear that uses such terms as "truth" or "Pro"! Usually it is porkies and it ain't! (The M-Audio Fast track "Pro" wasn't but it WAS well put together, worked like a stove and I have never read of one going wrong?).

My Behringer experience is: Bad, good, bad. I had a BCA 2000 interface, thrice.I Fixed the last one once but could not be arsed to do it a second time. A Xenyx 802 mixer on the other hand did sterling service into a 2496 for 2 years and has since run mics from my garden for another 2 without batting a LED. The product tester at B's described a Berry active DI box as a crock of ***t.
Forgot the UCA202. Very good value for money if all you need to do is dub some tapes into a PC. Sort of OK for dubbing vinyl from a hi fi rig but I prefer to use 24bits for that.



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Re: Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby shufflebeat » Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:15 pm

Funny enough, the much discussed weaknesses of Behringer kit means any unit that lasts more than a year is probably worth picking up second hand. Anything that can fail has already done so and will be pretty obvious to the trained eye/ear.

I have several feedback destroyers on wedges, a 2x15 EQ on IEM duty and a dual channel DI box which makes an excellent nutcracker.
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Re: Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby The Red Bladder » Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:24 pm

If you want cheap AND reliable, the magic answer is Phonic.

As for Behringer, it is not as if you have not been warned! Time and time and time again, people warned others that their products are below any acceptable standard.

I cannot even begin to describe just how badly built some of their products are and yet their are still numpties out there, paying good money for products that sooner or later (usually sooner) are not going to work any more.
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Re: Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby shufflebeat » Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:33 pm

The Red Bladder wrote:If you want cheap AND reliable, the magic answer is Phonic.

Sounding half decent would be a prerequisite too. I used to play with a chap who didn't want to pay the nominal amount I charged for PA, saying "I'll use my bloody own for free" (tight git).

We used his Phonic mixer amp once and it was so excruciating I waived my charge for future gigs.
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Re: Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby niallharp » Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:36 pm

I had a little mixer which I used for three years to stop mice coming up through a hole in the floor. Never let me down. Best use I ever got of Behringer equipment. True Story. People may say they've gotten better. Well, they had the worst reputation in the audio industry, so they'd really have to. I just spoke to a corporate AV company guy who just sent back their x32's, so maybe they haven't got that much better...There are many reasons not to buy Behringer, not least of which is their reverse engineering of other peoples products. That's just bad for business for everybody. Save up and buy something designed and made by people with phd's who have invested a lifetime in audio. It'll be more expensive, but it'll sound good and work for years. Buying expensive [ ****** ] is cheaper.
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Re: Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby ef37a » Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:06 pm

The Red Bladder wrote:If you want cheap AND reliable, the magic answer is Phonic.

As for Behringer, it is not as if you have not been warned! Time and time and time again, people warned others that their products are below any acceptable standard.

I cannot even begin to describe just how badly built some of their products are and yet their are still numpties out there, paying good money for products that sooner or later (usually sooner) are not going to work any more.

Hmm, And Uli never DID come in for that Q&A session!

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Re: Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:31 pm

niallharp wrote:There are many reasons not to buy Behringer, not least of which is their reverse engineering of other peoples products. That's just bad for business for everybody.

Agreed... but I don't think any of the B products introduced in the last year or two have been reverse engineered -- please correct me if I'm wrong. I know some of the old 'borrowed' stuff is still on the books, but I think the company has genuinely changed direction in recent years. It will take a long, long time to shed the undesirable image though...

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Re: Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby shindigger » Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:43 pm

You are correct that i had been warned. This is the first Behringer escapade i have been on.
I wouldn't have trusted their amps or their mixers at any stage for any money, (along with Phonic funnily enough, have seen 2 power amps cark it within the last year) but this thing had good reviews.
The concept, as i said earlier, within its remit, is a good one. Leaving aside the looks down the noses of those that don't need something like this to ring out a room.
I don't either really within my field of operation, but thought i would give one a blast.
I went all over the net researching this particular door stop and couldn't find much, if any reference to bricking.
A solid 4 out of 5 everywhere i looked.
I am no cheapskate, and am not prepared to trust my reputation to rubbish.

Maybe i've been unlucky, but as someone else pointed out, i've been lucky too.
In that the true horror of this tat, showed itself before things got serious.
Bullet dodged.
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Re: Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby N.icholas » Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:04 pm

[quote="ef37a
Hmm, And Uli never DID come in for that Q&A session!

Dave. [/quote]

But he did on sound forums net - for those who haven't followed it a couple of his early posts may be of interest - point for discussion!

e.g 1 interesting comment re manufacturing in China

"]ear Jack,

Thank you for your honest comments. While I would argue with some of the assertions, I do respect your point of view and the passion with which you write. Allow me to offer my view.

When I started the company in Germany 23 years ago, I set out to create great product, and do it at a low cost in order to make products available for people who do not have deep pockets. Having been a student with no money myself, I understand the difficulty aspiring musicians have and hence it became my philosophy in life and later the Company philosophy to offer the best possible products at the best possible price.

Admittedly it was easier to maintain low product costs when we were a tiny business literally working out of a barn. Even in those days though we took great care in our designs, board layouts, sought out the best parts and built our products to be reliable and affordable. In those early days I designed everything myself – from the mechanical and circuit design to the PCB layout and I even assembled the products myself. I do understand processes and manufacturing and even today I spend much of my time in our factory as this is where we put a tremendous focus.

20 years ago we moved our manufacturing to Asia in pursuit of lower cost and frankly, better yields. As our volume grew dramatically we discovered that the batch manufacturing we were doing in Germany was no longer able to keep up with demand. So we moved our exact same designs, the exact same parts and the exact same processes to the lower-cost and higher-volume of a contract manufacturer in China.

Obviously there were growing pains as 20 years ago, we were the first audio company to move production to China and no experienced audio manufacturer existed. In order to oversee production I relocated to HK and China and taught those manufacturers how to produce audio products. Ironically today these are the exact same manufacturers who make products for our competitors.

The reality of manufacturing in China is that you must control it or it can wipe you out. We learned that quickly, but those early missteps still haunt us today. In the early years we used 3rd party manufacturers such as Kwanasia and others who had little experience with audio products. Also it is common knowledge that those manufacturers substitute parts behind your back in order to maximize profit and your work instructions only last for the time that you are in the factory and are reversed when you leave. Interesting is that Kwanasia whom we abandoned for quality reasons now manufactures for brands such as Avid, Soundcraft, Peavey etc.

Frankly it is a losing battle and this made us decide to open our own manufacturing plant over 10 years ago. Today we are one of the very few companies who own the manufacturing plant and we are proud of our dedicated people and the quality systems. Was it easy? Absolutely not, but it was worth the pain as today it is a huge competitive advantage.

When we acquired Midas, their people made it very clear to me that they would only agree to move manufacturing to China if we would invest in the most sophisticated equipment and they came up with a list that made us spend US$ 20 million last year. We built one of the most high-tech and automated plants in the world with high-precision SMT machines, in-circuit testers, optical inspection systems that automatically check every solder joint and x-ray equipment that can “see” through multilayer boards with fine-pitch and ball-grid parts.

In return however I requested Midas to send their best engineers to be based in China and run the plant. This was the deal and today we have achieved amazing quality and a great teamwork. All our Behringer and Bugera products are now also made on the same equipment and as a result quality is among the best in the business; which is well documented.

Our quality has increased so much that we also introduced a 3-Year Warranty program at the beginning of this year. To be perfectly clear, we do not make disposable products and there is no planned obsolescence. We make great product and because of our scale, in-house manufacturing and purchasing power we can make it at a lower cost. Since the very first day I started the Company, it is our philosophy to share those benefits with our customers and that’s how we achieve great loyalty and a production volume of around 5 million products per year.

As you said your feelings about us are equally emotional as much as logical. The emotional part I cannot address although again, I respect. On the logical side though I want to make it known that we are extremely proud of what we build and how we continue to improve quality and drive down costs to deliver value for our customers."

E.G 2

"We are surely not perfect and never will, but we are extremely focused on quality management systems such as ISO9000, DFM, Lean Six Sigma or "Kaizen" which is Japanese and translates to "constant improvement". Kaizen is a system that involves all employees, from the executives down to the cleaners and all employees are encouraged to come up with little suggestions how to improve their workplace or anything else they feel can be improved. Companies such as GE and Toyota invented those systems, however you can only implement Kaizen in your manufacturing environment when you actually own the factory, which we do."

So I would say they are trying to change their reputation hopefully through concrete actions - also they now offer a 3 year warranty. They claim a low % failure rate in comparison to the competition - but this may translate into more units due to the volume of their sales!
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Re: Behringer Ultragraph 1502. Shoddy rubbish.

Postby shufflebeat » Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:56 pm

we do not make disposable products


Bollocks, I'm sure Brother Uli thinks that but he would, wouldn't he. If he's so worried about the wellbeing of poor musicians then let him recall all the ada8000s for a free power supply replacement. That quote is delusional guff and most people I know saw it for that when he said it.

Cheap kit is no bargain when it's broke.
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